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Problem:

On import into library, artists appear to be assigned genres by the scraper. Some of these genres are sensible ("Alternative rock"), some are clearly the same thing (Alt' rock, alternative rock), some are a bit esoteric (Avant/Art rock, Elektro rock) and some are just plain odd (does anyone else share the view that Gil Scott Heron deserves the genre "funky beats"!?)

This all creates a mess. Smart playlists become hard to filter sensibly by genre, particularly with large collections. Browsing by genre is more than a little frustrating.

Potential alternatives:
- Allow manual reassignment of genres post-scraping.
- Default the scraper genre assignment to 'off', or at ask user prior to scraping.

Thoughts?
I take on board the suggestion of user control over scraping genre. I think only some of the sources provide it anyway, but because of the variable quality of the "wisdom of crowds" and the subjective nature of genre it does need to be configurable. Added to my work list.

One can change artist genre via NFO files - NFO take priority over online scraping. But the NFO dependency on every artist having a unique folder with all their music below it needs to be removed (already on my list). Are there moments when a user would just like an on screen edit facility, yes sure. But that is something I would need a lot more encouragement from both users and within the team to even try to take forward.

But there is another dimension to the genre problem too. Genre is a property of songs, albums and artists, and they can all be different. So when we say "genre" we really need to qualify which value. The Kodi UI - both default node navigation, filtering and smart playlists - all uses song genre.

Album genre is a copy of the song genre until it gets scraped, but then only the text gets changed not the internal values.

Artist genre is just text - gets displayed but not codified or searched (by Kodi, I think remotes like Kore may use it)

Quote:This all creates a mess. Smart playlists become hard to filter sensibly by genre, particularly with large collections.
Editing scraped artist genre values is not going effect the results from smart playlists, they use song genre. But I agree that there is a mess.

I have discussed elsewhere what we can do about it - how much do we link the artist, album and song (from tags) genre values, and how do we provide options to filter using them.

Quote:Browsing by genre is more than a little frustrating.
Yes I agree. I also think that with large or diverse music collections there is a genre to genre relationship defining a hierarchy of genres, or genre/subgenre, or genre groups.
This has been requested many times but I think its more of an Add-on request really not something Kodi should do.

I know if you use the TADB scraper it will sanitize for you as we have standard genres.
Would making sure "Prefer online information" is deselected help on these occasions? so the tag produced value for Album and Artists is not over written.

How is Song genre used to create Album and Artist genres? is it a simply majority vote? taken from first track scanned? some other method?
Actually I've never completely understood exactly what "Prefer online information" does? I know it can cause info from tags to be over written if selected, what exactly what tags/database fields and under what circumstances has never been clear to me, so I've always played safe and leave it off.

As music scrapers are being reworked to python I wonder if "Prefer online information" should be moved into the scraper and a more granular control in the scraper on what fields get over written.
Here is the old feature request thread

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=217491
(2017-03-29, 10:52)docwra Wrote: [ -> ]This has been requested many times but I think its more of an Add-on request really not something Kodi should do.

I know if you use the TADB scraper it will sanitize for you as we have standard genres.
Editing artist genre (or any other scraped values) as an addon, well maybe...
But first Kodi changes are needed to ensure that JSON changes to genre are correctly propagated in the db, currently they aren't.

Also standardising the artist genre values using TADB is great, but as I pointed out it will not make smart playlists or genre navigation any nicer since these use song genre. Artist genre just gets displayed on the artist info dialog, it is not used by Kodi for filtering or selection.

(2017-03-29, 11:08)jjd-uk Wrote: [ -> ]Would making sure "Prefer online information" is deselected help on these occasions? so the tag produced value for Album and Artists is not over written.
Yes, for albums. Artist genre is only provided by scraping, otherwise it is blank. Remember at the moment artist genre is just display text (that happens to be labelled "genre")..
Quote:How is Song genre used to create Album and Artist genres? is it a simply majority vote? taken from first track scanned? some other method?
Album genre is currently taken from the genre(s) of the first song.

(2017-03-29, 11:13)jjd-uk Wrote: [ -> ]Actually I've never completely understood exactly what "Prefer online information" does? I know it can cause info from tags to be over written if selected, what exactly what tags/database fields and under what circumstances has never been clear to me, so I've always played safe and leave it off.
See http://kodi.wiki/view/Music_tagging#Data_Kodi_Scrapes , also I have explained many times in posts like here http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid2531998 , but here we go.

In summary for albums: year, (record) label, compilation flag and album genre(s) have values determined from tags, but can be overwritten by scraped values when "Prefer online information" is enabled.

Also if the scraper identifies the album has having different artists (most likely on classical music than pop) then when "Prefer online information" is enabled it will change the artists adding new ones if it needs to.

Clearer? If not see me after class Smile

Quote:As music scrapers are being reworked to python I wonder if "Prefer online information" should be moved into the scraper and a more granular control in the scraper on what fields get over written.
Like the granular control idea, but would still want an overall blanket switch for overwrites. I know what a mess users can get in if some artists/albums have overwrite "on" while others it is "off"
(2017-03-29, 11:47)DaveBlake Wrote: [ -> ]
(2017-03-29, 11:13)jjd-uk Wrote: [ -> ]Actually I've never completely understood exactly what "Prefer online information" does? I know it can cause info from tags to be over written if selected, what exactly what tags/database fields and under what circumstances has never been clear to me, so I've always played safe and leave it off.
See http://kodi.wiki/view/Music_tagging#Data_Kodi_Scrapes, also I have explained many times in posts like here http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid2531998, but here we go.

In summary for albums: year, (record) label, compilation flag and album genre(s) have values determined from tags, but can be overwritten by scraped values when "Prefer online information" is enabled.

Also if the scraper identifies the album has having different artists (most likely on classical music than pop) then when "Prefer online information" is enabled it will change the artists adding new ones if it needs to.

Clearer? If not see me after class Smile

Yep I knew Album information could be over written, but it's never been clear exactly what database fields populated from tags could be over written, so if I've understood right it's:

Album title
Genre
Year
Label (as in record company)
Compilation or not

Is it exclusively those? any others?
Ah sorry you put a comma in the link so it didn't take me to the bottom.
[sorry have corrected, and editing here for clarity - DB]

Data scraped is:
Artist
Life span (Born, Died) - TADB/AM/MB
Formed, Disbanded
YearsActive - AM
Genres - TADB/AM
Moods - TADB/AM
Styles - TADB/AM
Instruments
Biography - TADB
Discography - TADB/AM/MB
Thumb - fanart.tv/TADB/AM/HT
Fanart - fanart.tv/TADB/HT

Album
Genres
Year
Compilation

Moods - TADB/AM
Styles - TADB/AM
Themes - TADB/AM
Review (description) - TADB
Thumb (cover) - fanart.tv/TADB/AM
Label
Rating - TADB/AM/MB
Votes

Those shown like this are already in the database from tags, they will get over written when "Prefer Online Information" is enabled.
Some other discussions of genre here http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=278315
and there is another long thread about it that I can't find at the moment.

Currently Kodi navigates:
(song) Genres > Artists (with songs of that genre) > Albums (by artist with songs of that genre) > Songs (on that album, by that artist of that genre)

But there are arguements for also offering the more simple approach:
(Artist) Genres > Artists (with that genre) > Albums (by artist) > Songs (on that album)
but looking at ways to initially populate artist genre from song tags, and manage them.

Of course there are variations of this navigation for including albums with song that the artist features on even though they are not the album artist e.g compilation album or duets.

I would also like artists to have "gender" - male, female, group, unknown. I use a genre for that at the moment, via song tags but that is clunky.
Gender? I've fully tagged and sorted my music with Picard but still do not have genre. I've been thinking about doing genres manually. Why gender?
(2017-03-29, 12:31)bry Wrote: [ -> ]I've fully tagged and sorted my music with Picard but still do not have genre. I've been thinking about doing genres manually.
Yeap MB don't provide genre, it is too subjective I guess. Do you mean setting artist genre via NFO (that you can look at but not use for selection) or song genre via tagging, or something else?

(2017-03-29, 12:31)bry Wrote: [ -> ]Why gender?
How I choose what album I want to listen too is often gender first - I feel like a band, or a female or male voices. Then other attributes like genre or maybe mood (if I had ever got around to creating NFOs etc.). I have lots of artists in my collection, it need more than just genre to split them into digestable chunks.

Just thrown in there, more likely to pick an artist by gender than life span etc.
I wouldn't personally do any of the sub genre's. I have no problem tagging updating the tags as I don't use NFO files. Maybe look into how this emby plug-in works? https://emby.media/community/index.php?/...e-cleaner/
(2017-03-29, 12:31)bry Wrote: [ -> ]Gender? I've fully tagged and sorted my music with Picard but still do not have genre. I've been thinking about doing genres manually. Why gender?

take a look at this plugin for picard
https://github.com/fdemmer/Picard-Last.fm.ng-Plugin

it pulls genre and lots of other stuff from Last.fm, it takes some time to set it up, but once its done, it works pretty good, using it a few month now.

I only use it for Genre and mood not for grouping/decade/year/category and so on, the best part for me is, it is pulling Genre per Song, so if there is a Hip Hop Track on your Metal CD, the Song get the Hip Hop Genre and not Metal.
Sometimes(very rar) its doing strange thing and use genre that dont match, but than its just 2 clicks in foobar to change the genre for that one song

here is my config.ini drop it into ...\MusicBrainz Picard\plugins\lastfmng maby it saves you some time :>
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9bSf6...kJLclFySk0

@topic I'm pretty strict on my Genres I have ~50 of them and only see the on i tag in Kodi, I never ever have seen some strange Genre that the Scraper is Pulling from on of the Sources. the Use online info was/is always off for me.
Thanks Meowmoo - good tip.

I would however strongly argue that this isn't something that should need the installation of external plugins to achieve.
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