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Full Version: Kodi 19 a pipedream?
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I've been hanging around for quite a bit of time. Before I even registered to post in the forum. 
What I had noticed is enthusiasm. Not so much now. I'm not saying it's not there, just that it's not noticeable. It brings me to some questions:

Will 19 ever actually reach usability? I ask only because it seems not a lot of add-on developers seem to care to upgrade. Why is that? What can be done to enthuse this? 

Who is working on the internal web browser? I would think that would be the single most important aspect of the new version. Is it that difficult or not even known if possible? Curious. 

Not trying to troll. Just my observations.
Kodi 19 will come, eventually. Our tactics have changed slightly, as you may have noticed on the Kodi 18 minor version releases.

Plenty of add-on devs wait until the next stable release is out, it happens a lot with skins. But now with Python 3 for Kodi 19, that all might be delayed even longer.
Add to the fact that the Kodi team has lost various team members in the last two years which are hard to replace (one has significantly reduced his workload just a week ago), so certain things will go at a slower pace.

The overall challenge for any Kodi add-on is, is that it needs to work (preferably) on every platform that Kodi itself runs on. Personally I don't know what the current status is of the internal browser.

(2020-06-01, 13:49)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]What can be done to enthuse this?

Opening up a few cans of qualified and enthousiastic Kodi developers would be nice for starters.
(2020-06-01, 13:49)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]Who is working on the internal web browser?

Just to add....as I guess you are talking about the webinterface (Chorus 2). We have a GSOC project running and I guess it will have a good outcome.
(2020-06-01, 13:49)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]Will 19 ever actually reach usability?
Not sure what your problems are, but I use Kodi 19 since a very long time already and I can't complain for my usecase. Sure, there are still some add-ons missing and as long as Kodi 18 will receive bugfixes, noone will really care about Kodi 19. So I guess that those bugfix-releases will stop at some point and Kodi 19 might reach its "alpha" state.
(2020-06-13, 15:35)DaVu Wrote: [ -> ]
(2020-06-01, 13:49)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]Who is working on the internal web browser?

Just to add....as I guess you are talking about the webinterface (Chorus 2). We have a GSOC project running and I guess it will have a good outcome.
(2020-06-01, 13:49)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]Will 19 ever actually reach usability?
Not sure what your problems are, but I use Kodi 19 since a very long time already and I can't complain for my usecase. Sure, there are still some add-ons missing and as long as Kodi 18 will receive bugfixes, noone will really care about Kodi 19. So I guess that those bugfix-releases will stop at some point and Kodi 19 might reach its "alpha" state.

Yeah, I think that is kinda my point. At some point, one has to stop supporting 18 to begin forcing the hand. That not only will get add-on developers to jump on-board who haven't already as well as create more enthusiasm with possible new developers to help with 19 as a core. Just my observations.
From my point 'Matrix' is here, but I use Kodi in the fashion of a HTPC and add-ons are just a side benefit in the many functions of Kodi thus unimportant in large scale of my usage. Getting all the add-on developers onboard each Kodi iterations is the freedom left to the authors, and in some respects the users. If a specific add-on is why you are using Kodi, then appreciate what you have and perhaps encourage further support from the author in that specific add-on forum or feel free to contribute code to that endeavour.
(2020-06-14, 18:28)PatK Wrote: [ -> ]From my point 'Matrix' is here, but I use Kodi in the fashion of a HTPC and add-ons are just a side benefit in the many functions of Kodi thus unimportant in large scale of my usage. Getting all the add-on developers onboard each Kodi iterations is the freedom left to the authors, and in some respects the users. If a specific add-on is why you are using Kodi, then appreciate what you have and perhaps encourage further support from the author in that specific add-on forum or feel free to contribute code to that endeavour.

Oh, I totally understand what you are saying and agree. My major issues with upgrading are more along the lines of skins and skin features as they relate to local movies and tv shows. The other outside plugins I use consist of literally 4. Conversely, having an internal browser would allow for one more important add-on/plugin (hopefully) to be developed as well (Youtube TV)...then I'd be content as content could be.
you will never see official "youtube TV" in KODI. The app comes with it's own webbrowser thingy on all platforms and does not use the OS webbrowser. And the formerly available "big picture" mode of Youtube via a regular browser is gone since some months from what I know. So even with a native webbrowser inside KODI, you won't get the TV "web app" UI unless someone reverse engineers the app and the URLs it uses.

As for the webbrowser add-on itself. I think alwinus still is interested in finishing it, but he is currently working on cleaning up our binary add-on interface/API to have a better, future proof foundation for it.
(2020-07-01, 17:23)da-anda Wrote: [ -> ]you will never see official "youtube TV" in KODI.
On Tuesday, Google's YouTube TV announced a monthly $15 price hike, bringing its streaming package of channels to $64.99 monthly, from $49.99. "YouTube TV is now the most expensive of the cable TV streaming alternative services,"

I think I'll pass on this.
The average cable TV bill is $217.42 monthly!......Jeez, that's even more than the UK and that's saying something!
(2020-06-14, 16:25)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]At some point, one has to stop supporting 18 to begin forcing the hand.
IMO it is a shame that we have to leave users with bugs that we could fix with a backport just to "force" addon devs to be interested in Kodi. Even if we had not done a single backport or point release, v19 would be no nearer release. Every fix was needed for v19 has been applied to master first, it has not been wasted effort.

I guess I would like to know from users if they would have prefered v18.0 was frozen 17 months ago, and access to the fixes provided via 18.1 to 18.7 was only via using the v19 nightlies? That information can inform how the release cycle is managed in future.

(2020-06-14, 16:25)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]That not only will get add-on developers to jump on-board who haven't already as well as create more enthusiasm with possible new developers to help with 19 as a core. Just my observations.
Great if it can attract new core devs, with the skills, enthusuiasm, persistence and patience to climb the mountain that is Kodi. We will see soon as an alpha release is imminent.
(2020-07-04, 10:22)DaveBlake Wrote: [ -> ]
(2020-06-14, 16:25)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]At some point, one has to stop supporting 18 to begin forcing the hand.
IMO it is a shame that we have to leave users with bugs that we could fix with a backport just to "force" addon devs to be interested in Kodi. Even if we had not done a single backport or point release, v19 would be no nearer release. Every fix was needed for v19 has been applied to master first, it has not been wasted effort.

I guess I would like to know from users if they would have prefered v18.0 was frozen 17 months ago, and access to the fixes provided via 18.1 to 18.7 was only via using the v19 nightlies? That information can inform how the release cycle is managed in future.
(2020-06-14, 16:25)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]That not only will get add-on developers to jump on-board who haven't already as well as create more enthusiasm with possible new developers to help with 19 as a core. Just my observations.
Great if it can attract new core devs, with the skills, enthusuiasm, persistence and patience to climb the mountain that is Kodi. We will see soon as an alpha release is imminent.
I used the nightlies in the manner you speak of (fixes), traditionally. With the RERO approach, I believe it gets messy in that sense. Personally, a stable 18 via nightlies with hands forced to fix their add-ons as fixes and updates are applied (which is still RERO in my book) is a logical path. You say alpha is imminent? This year?
(2020-07-21, 17:23)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]
(2020-07-04, 10:22)DaveBlake Wrote: [ -> ]
(2020-06-14, 16:25)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]At some point, one has to stop supporting 18 to begin forcing the hand.
IMO it is a shame that we have to leave users with bugs that we could fix with a backport just to "force" addon devs to be interested in Kodi. Even if we had not done a single backport or point release, v19 would be no nearer release. Every fix was needed for v19 has been applied to master first, it has not been wasted effort.

I guess I would like to know from users if they would have prefered v18.0 was frozen 17 months ago, and access to the fixes provided via 18.1 to 18.7 was only via using the v19 nightlies? That information can inform how the release cycle is managed in future.
(2020-06-14, 16:25)debennett2 Wrote: [ -> ]That not only will get add-on developers to jump on-board who haven't already as well as create more enthusiasm with possible new developers to help with 19 as a core. Just my observations.
Great if it can attract new core devs, with the skills, enthusuiasm, persistence and patience to climb the mountain that is Kodi. We will see soon as an alpha release is imminent.
I used the nightlies in the manner you speak of (fixes), traditionally. With the RERO approach, I believe it gets messy in that sense. Personally, a stable 18 via nightlies with hands forced to fix their add-ons as fixes and updates are applied (which is still RERO in my book) is a logical path. You say alpha is imminent? This year?
One problem I see that you guys should look into is separate signing code for android nightlies for kodi 19. I normally like to test beta or alpha versions of software but as you cant install 2 versions in parallel in android I didn't install and try kodi 19 till recently even that was forced as I installed a v19 by mistake instead v18 while testing a pr. As my settings were hosed anyay and all the plugins I use had v19 versions available I switched over to v19.
If you know where to look then you might find what you're asking about from today.
(2020-07-04, 10:22)DaveBlake Wrote: [ -> ]IMO it is a shame that we have to leave users with bugs that we could fix with a backport just to "force" addon devs to be interested in Kodi.

Thanks, I totally agree. I like actually using Kodi instead of updating all the time. For example, my prefered skin Arctic Zephyr didn't run with Kodi 18 initially, the profiles don't work as well with 18, as they used to work with 17 (where they still had their problems)... So personally, I prefer having a stable, reliable system instead of the newest and shiniest. I'm e.g. still perfectly happy with Windows 7 and "1K" resolution (1080p).