Kodi Community Forum

Please reply as soon as possible because otherwise I will need to sell this very powerful Shield TV. After a long and troubled decision, I shoot in 25p 10 bit with my camera. I created a short documentary and exported a 25p 10bit file.
I created a 25p 10bit file (bitrate 10M) with a professional program (I do video editing) and I wanted to watch that file with Shield TV (2017 version) but the video jerky and almost freezes the Shield TV. Are you able to watch 25p 10bit videos?
Thanks

(2020-06-12, 21:40)FoxADRIANO Wrote: [ -> ]I created a 25p 10bit file (bitrate 10M) with a professional program

We'll need some more info.
A debug log (wiki) and perhaps full mediainfo details on the video file.

Sample file?

(2020-06-12, 21:40)FoxADRIANO Wrote: [ -> ]Please reply as soon as possible

This has to go both ways, of course.

(2020-06-12, 21:40)FoxADRIANO Wrote: [ -> ]Please reply as soon as possible because otherwise I will need to sell this very powerful Shield TV. After a long and troubled decision, I shoot in 25p 10 bit with my camera. I created a short documentary and exported a 25p 10bit file.
I created a 25p 10bit file (bitrate 10M) with a professional program (I do video editing) and I wanted to watch that file with Shield TV (2017 version) but the video jerky and almost freezes the Shield TV. Are you able to watch 25p 10bit videos?
Thanks

Always post an unedited Kodi log and a MediaInfo report on the file you are having problems with please.

The Shield TV should have no issues with h.265/HEVC at 10-bit, but won't have hardware acceleration for h.264/AVC at 10-bit (hardware acceleration on most platforms for h.264 is limited to 8-bit).  So make sure you are using h.265 and aren't using h.264. (Very few platforms have hardware acceleration for 10-bit content in any codec other than h.265/HEVC).

Also make sure that you are exporting in 4:2:0 and not 4:2:2 for your final video export.  The Shield TV will not hardware accelerate decode of 4:2:2 video. (Very few platforms have hardware acceleration for anything other than 4:2:0 content)

If you have problems for some reason with p25 video - then you can export your timeline at p50 (it won't make the p25 look like p50, it will still look like p25 - it will just do what TV stations do, who run a fixed p50 output, and frame double the p25 to p50) and see if that solves the problem (this will have no significant impact on picture quality - though you may want to bump up the bitrate a bit).  However I've had no issues with replay of 10-bit 4:2:0 p24 and p25 h.265 video on my Shield TV.

For your videos I'd probably export at something like :

2160p25 10-bit 4:2:0 h.265 and I'd probably chose something around 25Mbs as the bitrate.

@FoxADRIANO I've just exported one of the clips you've sent me in the past as a 3840x2160p25 4:2:0 h.265 (Main10) Quicktime in DaVinci Resolve.  It plays fine on my Shield TV Pro 2019 in Kodi.  CTRL+SHIFT+O brings up the drop/skip display - and there are none, and visually it looks fine.  I set up a uHD 3840x2160 25fps timeline in Resolve, dropped your 2160p50 h.264 clip onto it, and then exported it. (It will have converted the p50 to p25 - I'm not sure if it blends or drops - haven't spent long enough on this). DaVinci decided on 60Mbs bitrate itself - I left most of the settings other than ensuring Main10 was selected rather than Main (to switch from 8-bit to 10-bit export)

Here's the MediaInfo details for my export :

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5@High
Codec ID                                 : hvc1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 14s 880ms
Bit rate                                 : 59.4 Mbps
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 25.000 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.287
Stream size                              : 105 MiB (97%)
Title                                    : Core Media Video
Encoded date                             : UTC 2020-06-13 09:01:50
Tagged date                              : UTC 2020-06-13 09:08:03
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.709
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.709
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

However - as you can see it's a 25p 10-bit video. It plays fine in Kodi on my Shield TV Pro...  The problem is therefore likely to be with the files you are trying to play, rather than Kodi I'd suggest...

I'll DropBox you the file via a Direct Message so you can check it on your Shield TV and Kodi.

nodgin,
you are awesome. In a flash you understood the problem. You are right. I was making an h.264 25p 10bit file and Shield TV couldn't read it. Now I have just made a h.265 25p 10bit file and the Shield TV reads it well.

Anyway in MediaInfo I see 4:2:0 in the files and I don't understand the reason. I'm recording 25p 10bit 4:2:2 with my Lumix GH5.

Therefore are you telling me Shield TV should read 25p 10bit 4:2:0? I have even problem with 25p 10bit 4:2:0.

I don't understand when you  wrote I can export my timeline at p50, do you mean h.264 or h.265?

I thought Shield TV was better, instead it has big limits on reading files. But OK.

I attach you the 2 files, the first one is h.264 and the second one h.265. But they are the same file.

@FoxADRIANO 

The only 10-bit video the Shield TV decodes in hardware is h.265.  It doesn't decode h.264 with 10-bit in hardware, and it therefore has to switch to software - which means lots of frame drops.  Therefore you have to use h.265 if you want 10-bit depth.

Although you shoot 4:2:2 (and that's a good idea - it gives you higher quality sources to grade from), your final export needs to be 4:2:0 for playback on consumer gear like the Shield TV.  Again this is because the Shield TV only decodes 4:2:0 video in hardware, it can't accelerate 4:2:2, so again you'll either get failed playback or software decode (which again is likely to drop frames).

4:2:2 is a great production format, but isn't used as a final format for delivery to consumer playback devices.

DVB, DVD, Blu-ray, UHD Blu-ray, Netflix, Amazon Prime et al all deliver 4:2:0 to consumer playback devices - even though they will shoot and edit at 4:2:2 (or in some cases 4:4:4)

(2020-06-13, 14:03)FoxADRIANO Wrote: [ -> ]nodgin,
you are awesome. In a flash you understood the problem. You are right. I was making an h.264 25p 10bit file and Shield TV couldn't read it. Now I have just made a h.265 25p 10bit file and the Shield TV reads it well.

Yes - 10-bit h.264 is not a widespread format and almost no hardware platform supports it with accelerated decode (There are a couple that do - but they aren't mainstream devices)

Quote:Anyway in MediaInfo I see 4:2:0 in the files and I don't understand the reason. I'm recording 25p 10bit 4:2:2 with my Lumix GH5.

The reason is that you are shooting 4:2:2, but DaVinci Resolve realises that you will want to export at 4:2:0 as a default (as no consumer platforms have 4:2:2 decoders - it's a broadcast/postproduction-only format)

You shoot 4:2:2 because it gives you higher quality recordings - better quality material to take into your grade, better quality if you re-frame a shot in an edit etc.

You export 4:2:0 because it's the format that players support (it's what all the main consumer video platforms use)  Dropping to 4:2:0 at the end of the process is far less of a worry in quality terms than starting 4:2:0 (as the errors that are introduced by shooting 4:2:0 get worse the more you edit the content)

In your mind you have to separate the format you are shooting in and the format you are exporting in.  They are formats doing two different jobs, and therefore you use different settings or formats for those two jobs.

Quote:Therefore are you telling me Shield TV should read 25p 10bit 4:2:0? I have even problem with 25p 10bit 4:2:0.

No. I'm not saying that the ONLY 10-bit format you should expect to use is 10-bit 4:2:0 h.265.  

You just said you DIDN'T have a problem with p25 10-bit HEVC/h.265 an that the Shield reads it well?  I'm assuming you are saying that h.264 10-bit is causing you problems?  Well it will - it's not a supported format on almost any platform.

You can't use h.264 with 10-bit and expect it to play on any mainstream Kodi platform with hardware decode. You can't expect to play 4:2:2 on any mainstream Kodi platform with hardware decode.

Quote:I don't understand when you  wrote I can export my timeline at p50, do you mean h.264 or h.265?

I didn't write that ? I said that the example source clip you gave me was p50, but I dropped it onto p25 timeline so I could export it at p25 from Resolve (i.e. my project settings were 25fps and I didn't change them when I put a 50fps clip onto the timeline)

Quote:I thought Shield TV was better, instead it has big limits on reading files. But OK.

Better than what? None of the consumer price point Kodi platforms would support 4:2:2 h.264 or h.265 decode, nor would they support h.264 10-bit (with the exception of a couple of less popular platforms based on RockChip)

'Big Limits'?  It plays pretty much anything anyone would expect it to play?

You don't expect a $200 box to play camera rushes and edit masters that you'd play on a $3000 edit workstation.

(2020-06-13, 15:45)noggin Wrote: [ -> ]4:2:2 is a great production format, but isn't used as a final format for delivery to consumer playback devices.

Yes, 4:2:2 is a great production format but I have just known it is a lot more hard to shoot 25p 10bit 4:2:2. In addition to the problem of blur (it would be better to shoot on a tripod) there is also the problem of the right exposure. I read that incorrect exposure is tolerated less at 25p 10bit 4:2:2 then at 50p 8bit 4:2:0.
Which is your thought?

(2020-06-13, 23:05)FoxADRIANO Wrote: [ -> ]

(2020-06-13, 15:45)noggin Wrote: [ -> ]4:2:2 is a great production format, but isn't used as a final format for delivery to consumer playback devices.

Yes, 4:2:2 is a great production format but I have just known it is a lot more hard to shoot 25p 10bit 4:2:2. In addition to the problem of blur (it would be better to shoot on a tripod) there is also the problem of the right exposure. I read that incorrect exposure is tolerated less at 25p 10bit 4:2:2 then at 50p 8bit 4:2:0.
Which is your thought?

(This is veering off topic as it's no longer related to Kodi and playback of p25 10-bit content (which it can do fine as we've established). This would be better handled via direct messages - but I will answer this time.)

As we've discussed - it's precisely the opposite...

The whole point of shooting 10-bit (as opposed to outputting 10-bit) is to allow you to shoot in a Log format, which means you can have more latitude when shooting (most people shooting log always underexpose a bit) which gives you a lot more possibilities to grade the picture (including compensating for the under exposure, but also handling the over exposure, because there is so much more detail captured in 10-bit Log than 8-bit non-Log you have more latitude in the edit). The 'hard' bit is learning to always underexpose a little, and to understand that the Log video you are recording will look 'flat' if you view it directly without a viewing LUT (but the viewing LUT is only showing you an interpretation of what you've shot compared to what you can achieve in your grade. You have to learn to trust that you are shooting correctly.)

If you shoot at 1/50th shutter at p25 (as most people do to look like film, which usually uses a 180 degree shutter)  you have identical motion blur to shooting 1/50th at p50 (as the exposure time for each frame is identical).  Nobody recommends shooting p25 with 1/25th shutter - as that looks horrible.  Yes - the result will have a lower frame rate, so fast motion needs to be considered (but the material you shoot doesn't have much fast motion).   All the high-end documentaries shot these days shoot for a p25 rather than p50 look.