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Full Version: [Win][v19+] Intel HTPCs/NUCs & Kodi-native 3D MVC Playback
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(2023-01-06, 08:03)Dudeman Wrote: [ -> ]HI guys, relatively new to the MVC scene.  My solution in the past to getting a better (than H-SBS or H-TAB) quality rip, was to rip the video to 4K H-SBS using DVDFab.  Even though the image is obviously up scaled, it does look pretty good when played on a 4K monitor.

But, I digress.  In the last few weeks I started ripping some of my 3D discs and some of my full BD ISOs to MVC.  I was originally using Win10 LTSC 1809 on a NUC6i3SYK which has a Corei3-6100U, on that I installed the 19.4 MVC branch and it works quite well.  I set the default and preferred modes to hardware, and it automatically turns the 3D mode on my TV.  I get the "3D Content Detected, put your 3D glasses on" message and it plays great.  I found a few titles that the fields are reversed (most recent one being Thor: Love and Thunder), but once I switch them with the option in the video settings, they play fine and Kodi remembers those settings..

Anyway, now to the second part of the story.  I updated my 1809 LTSC to latest LTSC, 21H2, and now it no longer works.  For some reason, the left eye is dark and there is no 3D effect to speak off.  I tried most of the suggestions I read here, including the MVC compatibility values, everything from 4 to 30 without any chnage.  On some values (above 20), I would occasionally get the left eye showing at normal brightness, but what it would show is a flickering still image frozen at the time when it switched over from 2D to 3D.  Exiting Kodi entirely, and restarting it would bring back the dark left eye playback. 

Pressing "\" to go to Windowed mode, fixes the problem, but the windowed image spoils the visuals.  I can also do the "Over-Under" trick, but that basically reduces the vertical resolution and it required additional input to the enable it in the GUI as well as the TV.  I tried most of the suggestions I read here, tried different drivers, I also tried the latest Kodi 20 Alpha MVC, but the issue persists.

Needless to say, I re-installed 1809 from a backup I made prior to upgrading, and everything is back, working once again.  So whatever changes occurred in Windows 10 between 1809 and 21H2, have obviously done something to the frame packed 3D playback.  Disappointing to say the least.

Now I do have a question.  When I play MVC movies, the image is substantially brighter than when playing either 2D movies or when I play 3D H-SBS or H-TAB movies.  Is this normal, is it a setting that it triggers either in the player or in the TV itself?  Maybe a different color profile?

FWIW, I also have a NUC8i3BEH, which has a Core i3-8109U CPU, and I plan on using it in the living room connected to my LG 4K 3D OLED.  I'm currently using a Amazon FireTV for my media player in the living room with Kodi 18.6 Leia, and it works quite well for playback of just about anything, except MVC, which it plays as 2D video.  Hence the addition of the NUC.  I'll post more information once I have everything installed, and hopefully it will work correctly.
When I had a 3D display my experience was the same. I3-8300S on a Supermicro board and I could not go beyond Windows 10 1809 without it breaking.
In new builds with recent Win10/11 versions, the trick seems to be to NOT activate 3D in the Windows settings. Let Kodi activate and deactivate 3D. Set MFX level to your driver level where it still uses HW acceleration for MVC. You can find out which level your driver supports with the Intel Media SDK, thats less pain than trying all MFX levels by trial and error. Also disable Color Management in Kodi as well.

Latest V20 MVC builds work best for me btw. I am on Win
11 22H2 with an Intel Core i3 8100.
I never set the Windows Graphics setting to enable 3D by default, at a desktop level, that's what the KODI settings are for.  Besides, if 3D is enabled in Windows and I start KODI, it crashes or gives me weird overlapping images, so I don't enable it at all in Windows. 

I tried both color management an no color management.  It doesn't seem to make any difference in the image quality (brightness or 3D), probably because I don't have 3D LUT or ICC profile to give it.  If you just enable it, it defaults to 3D LUT, but I don't think it has such a profile built in, you have to select one by clicking 3D LUT and browse for such a file for your particular monitor.  Same thing with ICC profiles

How can you find the driver level using Intel's Media SDK?
I guess a dual boot with Windows 10 1809 build would work. I’m going to try it.

@Dudeman thank you for the great input!
New update.

I finally got a chance to test the this on my LG OLED65E6P, and it's totally different than how it behaves on the Vizio TV in the "play room".  First of all, the OS image is identical, except the WiFi drivers and the Intel Audio driver.  I cloned the NUC 6 into the NUC 8, so the OS, all apps, including KODI, and most drivers (including the graphics drivers) are the same.

When I play an MVC movie on this setup, it automatically goes to over/under mode, it does NOT automatically trigger the 3D mode of the TV at all.  I have to manually click the 3D button on the remote and select Over/Under mode.  Additionally, the image is very washed out, much more so than it is on the Vizio.  In fact there are no blacks at all, even the black bars on top and bottom, which should be pure black or about 65~70% gray.  Really terrible look.

I thought it might have something to  do with the NUC 8 being different (hardware wise), so I plugged the NUC 6 I have connected to the Vizio into the LG.  Same washed out image, same Over/Under playback.

In the linked image you can see how bad the right side looks compared to the left side.  So it looks like MVC is not usable at all on my TV. 

Image
Image

Has anyone else tried KODI MVC playback on their LG OLED TVs.


BTW, how do you make images visible inside the post?
I got this working I was just dumb, I completely removed the lenovo intel graphics driver and managed to install the latest Intel driver and followed all the steps and its now working! Had the left eye bug initially but that fixed once I unpicked 3d manually in Windows settings. Thanks for all your hard work.
I think that there are so many variables, that if we really wanted to get the whole picture of what works and what doesn't, I think we need to provide additional information, including the display itself, because i my case it seems to make a very big difference.  I, for one, have tried 3 setups, and they behave differently, so I'll post them in a format that, I think, might be helpful in order to se that "whole picture".

Setup 1
Player:                     NUC6i3SYK w/i3-6100U
OS:                          Win10 LTSC 1809
Graphics Driver:      Intel HD520 v.27.20.100.9415
KODI ver:                v.20 Alpha3 / Nexus
KODI Settings:        MVC HW Level=10 / Lock HW FPS=OFF / Preferred mode=Same as Movie / AutoControl 3D Mode=On / Color Management=OFF
Addtl. Software:      K-Lite Code Pack 17.3.5 Full w/MPC-HC & MadVR renderer
TV/Monitor:             Vizio D3D320VX

With this setup everything works perfect.  The GUI and the movies have good contrast, with good blacks, and none of the "washed out" look mentioned in the previous posts.  Playing an MVC movie triggers the TV's 3D functionality.  Non MVC movies will default to the movie format (SBS or TAB) and I need to set the TV accordingly. 

Note:  MPC-HC also plays MVC movies fine and properly triggers the TV's 3D functionality.

Setup 2
Player:                   Same unit as above, different TV
TV/Monitor:           LG OLED65E6P

With this TV, the same unit that works on the Vizio has serious problems on the LG.  The KODI GUI is pretty washed out, no deep blacks, low contrast.  Playing non MVC movies works OK in the original format.  Playing MVC movies tries to trigger the 3D function, the screen blinks many times, then eventually KODI exits and I get a pop-up message that the Graphics driver has encountered problems, and the system is now using the Microsoft basic driver.  Trying to start KODi gives an instant error that the GUI couldn't be created.  Restarting the NUC is the only way to get the normal Intel driver back.

Note:  Unlike KODI, playing an MVC movie with MPC-HC works perfectly, and it even triggers the TV's 3D functionality.

Setup 3
Player:                     NUC8i3BEH w/i3-8109U
OS:                          Win10 LTSC 1809
Graphics Driver:      Intel HD520 v.27.20.100.9415
KODI ver:                v.20 Alpha3 / Nexus
KODI Settings:        MVC HW Level=10 / Lock HW FPS=OFF / Preferred mode=Same as Movie / AutoControl 3D Mode=On / Color Management=OFF
Addtl. Software:      K-Lite Code Pack 17.3.5 Full w/MPC-HC & MadVR renderer
TV/Monitor:             LG OLED65E6P

This unit, has the same software load as the NUC6 above (it was cloned from it).  The KODI GUI looks good, good contrast, and deep blacks.  Playing non-MVC movies works OK in the original format w/good contrast.  Playing MVC movies triggers an Over/Under mode, and the TV must be manually set to Over/Under in order to display the movie in 3D.  The "Player Process Info" shows the decoder is MSDK MVC (Hardware), but it doesn't behave like it did.  Also the image is washed out, some movies worse than others.

Note:  Trying to play an MVC movie with MPC-HC results in the screen going black.  I can hear the audio, but nothing on the screen.  Hitting ESC to force it to windowed mode doesn't work.  I can press"." to stop the movie, but the screen i still black.  The only thing that works is pressing ALT-F4 to exit the program.  That returns the desktop to normal.

So, for me at least, the display I use makes a very big difference, secondarily the Intel hardware (6th gen vs. 8th gen) also makes a difference, although it seems that the big difference is the TV itself.

Edit:

Set 4 (final setup)
Not really a new setup, I just took the NUC8 that fails on Setup 3 when it's connected to the LG TV, and plugged it into the Vizio.  Everything works perfectly, just like the NUC 6 in Setup 1.

So the only conclusion I can draw is that the only thing that makes a difference is the TV itself.  How the TV interprets the signal sent to it in order to trigger 3D playback is the key.  Yes, the version of the OS and KODI make a difference, but once you have all that in place, and you still have issues, then the difference maker is the display itself.

There is one thing that has got me thinking.  The HDMI Spec version.  The Vizio uses HDMI 1.4 spec ports, whereas the LG is HDMI 2.0a spec ports.  I wonder if there's a way to force the ports to 1.4 spec, to see if it makes any difference, but that's a last ditch effort in trying to figure out compatibility.
Intel HDMI 2.0 ports on most Motherboards use displayport to hdmi converter (internal) and those won't work on hdmi 2.0 ports on tv or receiver with 3d. If the hdmi port on the tv/receiver is 1.4 it will work.
Which is why I'm wondering if there's a way to trick the port into working at 1.4 spec rather than 2.0.  Maybe if I can find an older HDMI cable, but right now, everything I'm finding for sale is at least 2.0, some are 2.1.  even so, we're talking about signaling/protocol, which mean that even if I found an old cable that only support 1.4 performance, the actual signals will still be 2.0, it just won't perform at 18Gb/sec.

Hmmm.  Maybe some kind of box, an HDMI hub of sortsHuh?
my understanding is the newer ones maybe 11th gen and up don't have this problem.  If it doesn't have DisplayPort functionally out of the USB C it should work as well.
All the NUCs starting with 7th Gen have DP out via USB C, except 9th Gen which shows Thunderbolt 3.  The image below is a comparison between the NUC Gen 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 and 12

Image
(2023-01-09, 17:55)Dudeman Wrote: [ -> ]Which is why I'm wondering if there's a way to trick the port into working at 1.4 spec rather than 2.0.  Maybe if I can find an older HDMI cable, but right now, everything I'm finding for sale is at least 2.0, some are 2.1.  even so, we're talking about signaling/protocol, which mean that even if I found an old cable that only support 1.4 performance, the actual signals will still be 2.0, it just won't perform at 18Gb/sec.

Hmmm.  Maybe some kind of box, an HDMI hub of sortsHuh?

A DrHDMI box can do it. I have one and it allows you to override the EDID so could force HDMI 1.4. Does the NUC have any Displayport outputs listed as Dp++? If it does then using a passive display port to HDMI converter will force HDMI 1.4 (This worked for me in the past and is the cheapest option).
No, none of the newer NUCs have a discrete DP or DP++ port, only USB C or Thunderbolt.  The 6th Gen NUC has a Mini DP, but then again, that unit is already HDMI 1.4
Upstream Kodi v20 has been officially released.
I will rebase, test and upload the updated build here sometime in the next 2-3 days.
Sounds good.  I've been using v20 RC1, and so far, it seems OK.
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