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Full Version: [Win][v19+] Intel HTPCs/NUCs & Kodi-native 3D MVC Playback
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Ok, yesterday, i talked with a 3D software dev and talking about the discussion we have here, he told the same as i :  lot's of people are confused with terms like "frame packing" that can be used in encodding x264 tags but ARE NOT the same thing as HDMI Frame Packed 3D mode wich is the HDMI mode bluray players use. I know this may be confusing and i don't know if you are aware of that ?
So a software like kodi or anyother may read and decode MVC, SBS, TAV, etc and than 'compute' and send any of those in either HSBS, HTAB, FSBS (3840x1080p), FTAB (1920x2160) or Frame packed frames (1920x2205) to the video frame buffer for output.

In the case of MadVR, it's a choice of not letting other input format than MVC to be render in Frame Packed output mode !
But hopefully, Kodi lets you choose: it reads SBS, MVC, TAB and lets you choose the output mode, in my case i select "hardware mode" that is the one used by Windows desktop. If you do not set the windows desktop mode to 3D, Kodi, in my experience, won't be able to trigger it for your television LG (assuming E6 has same behaviour as mine) and i think it 'll be the same for other 3D renderers. Looks like kodi "hardware mode" is intended to use the 3D mode windows is already set.

I just finished a post to close a thread i started on this forum with the crash of Kodi when outputting to 3D Frame packed (hardware) to the windows / intel graphics pipes (directX).

This is not directly related but can be usefull for some configs with that specific Kodi crash: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=372517

apologise for my poor english but try to do my best Wink
for information, x264 3D tag, this tag is "called" frame packing tag.... (not used by x265 wich is not supposed to encode 3D. for x265, stereo mode tag is used), informations courtesy of my 3D dev  friend who want to stay anonymous.


      --frame-packing <integer> For stereoscopic videos define frame arrangement
                                  - 0: checkerboard - pixels are alternatively from L and R
                                  - 1: column alternation - L and R are interlaced by column
                                  - 2: row alternation - L and R are interlaced by row
                                  - 3: side by side - L is on the left, R on the right
                                  - 4: top bottom - L is on top, R on bottom
                                  - 5: frame alternation - one view per frame
                                  - 6: mono - 2D frame without any frame packing
                                  - 7: tile format - L is on top-left, R split across
I think when you say "HDMI Frame Packed 3D mode" you are referring the 1920x2205 mode played at 1080p/24Fps.  Most if not all the MVC movies I have, I have encoded myself, using DVDFab, and yes, they are all AVC (x264) encoded.  When kodi sends this format to a 3D TV, and that TV recognizes it, it should automatically trigger the TV's 3D mode and either pop-up message about 3D mode detected and sometimes Put on your 3D glasses.  This is what I get when I play and MVC movie on my Vizio TV.  I can also verify that by looking at the TV information, Also KODI doesn't chnage it's GUI to any kind of split mode.

Regardless, the question is a simple one.  When you play MVC movies using KODI, on your LG TV, do you have to use the 3D button at all to select or deselect the 3D mode?

You can also tell what mode your TV is using by getting info from your TV>  open up the Settings, then select Channels > Hover over Channel Tunning and press 11111.  It should come up with a ton of information.  In the lower right corner of the TV there is information about the current input and playback information.  If it's playing in any other mode than 1920 x 2205 @ 24Hz, it's not playing frame packed 3D.
Hi Dudeman.

"When you play MVC movies using KODI, on your LG TV, do you have to use the 3D button at all to select or deselect the 3D mode?" => No, it's switching automatically. i don't have to press 3D button.

I can be sure it's 3D frame packed in 1920x2205 24Hz because my AVR status displays "1080p (3D) 24Hz" and it's not able to recognize any other 3D mode.

Just checked with the LG menu i was not aware of:

Image
1 or 2 sec after selecting "Hardware based" 3D mode when Kodi ask you to select desired 3D output mode, the popup below appears on TV.

LG message: 3D signal detected. 3D is now activated.

And Kodi onscreen display : 3D stereo mode, based on hardware.

Image
So it works for you, great.  It might have something to do with your receiver, which may be sending a modified signal to the LG TV. 

I don't use my Pioneer Receiver as a switcher, just for audio (HDMI ARC), my HTPC is plugged directly into the side HDMI input of the TV.  Anyway, I can live with the current setup for now.  Was just hoping to get somehting more elegant than having t constantly press the 3D button to get into 3D mode or out of it.

I'm currently waiting for a Raspberry Pi 4, I just bought, and I'm going to try OSMC and KODI on it and see how well it works with 3D MVC content.
A few more tests for dudeman:

Connecting the i5-4590 iGPU (multi-GPU with the GTX) directly to LG C6V : Windows 10 22H2 is unable to see a 3D capable display ! ! !

Connecting my Lenovo P17 (Quadro T1000) directly to LG TV : Windows 11 22H2 see a capable display (3D switch option is there !) BUT
(assuming the internal laptop screen is off, so only one display, the external one "LG TV"):
         1) If desktop resolution is set to ultraHD, when i switch the desktop to 3D: everything freeze for 1 min and i had to restart computer...
         2) If resolution is set to 1080p (2D), when i swith the desktop to 3D: LG automaticaly switch to 3D FP 1920x2205 24Hz ! And Kodi works great ! (exactly the same behaviour as if it passes through the AVR), LG status: 1920x2205.
         3) if resolution is set to 1080p (2D) and i don't switch windows desktop to 3D mode: Kodi does NOT recognise a 3D display and output 3D movies in H-SBS mode ! ! !

I'm curious about pi4 3D playback ! i own 2 pi4b with "Home Assistant", a master and a slave one to have a larger "coverage".
(2023-03-27, 20:37)ecou2508 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm curious about pi4 3D playback ! i own 2 pi4b with "Home Assistant", a master and a slave one to have a larger "coverage".

I'll post here more information, once I have it and install the OS.

The reason I want to try it, is because everyone says raspberry supports MVC playback natively. and the KODY installation works straight out of the box. 

Moreover, everyone around this forum talks about the Vero 4K+ being the ultimate KODI player with full support for just about everything, including 3D MVC.  I was going to buy a Vero 4K+, but they're all sold out, and not expected in stock until sometimes in May.  I called the US distributor, PiShop, and was told that IF they come back in stock, it won't be until July ~ August time frame. 

OSMC, the maker of the Vero 4K, offers the OSMC OS free for download for the Vero 4K, Raspberry Pi and Apple TV, and these images, as far as I understand, also has a native KODI pre-loaded.

So If I can replicate the Vero 4K+ using a Raspberry Pi 4, I'm willing to try it.  I'll let you know if it works
(2023-03-26, 00:19)Dudeman Wrote: [ -> ]The point was can KODI trigger the TV's 3D mode functionality automatically,  the same way it does for a BluRay player?  In my case, the answer is no, not on the LG. 

If I use the 8th Gen NUC, it can't do it period, It plays all the formats.  If I use the 6th Gen NUC, KODI crashes if I enable hardware mode, but on the other hand, MPC-HC + MadVR works fine, and PowerDVD works fine (with mounted 3D ISOs).

On my Vizio 3D TV, everything I want it to do, it does, both the 6th Gen, and the 8th Gen NUCs.  Playing ANY type of 3D media, will trigger the TVs 3D mode automatically, and selects the correct mode (MVC Frame packed, H-SBS, H-TAB, etc).  I never have to reach for the 3D button,

As stated in multiple places, if there is any device with HDMI2.0 or above connected to the NUC, it will not be able to use frame packed 3D - that is the lspcon issue.
I never succeeded to find a workaround to overcome it except connecting the NUC to the projector via extremly old AV receiver which only supports HDMI1.4.
Of course that was not acceptable to me as it didn't support DTS:X or Atmos - so I just bought a NUC-like Celeron J4105 PC and use it with a recent receiver and the 4K projector.

 I also own a Zidoo Z9X which is super nice but it has it's drawbacks. I still want a kodi solution as I own a lot of imported bluray discs and i want to inject localized subtitles in realtime during play (without ripping the disc).
(2023-03-28, 21:00)damagedspline Wrote: [ -> ]As stated in multiple places, if there is any device with HDMI2.0 or above connected to the NUC, it will not be able to use frame packed 3D - that is the lspcon issue.
I never succeeded to find a workaround to overcome it except connecting the NUC to the projector via extremly old AV receiver which only supports HDMI1.4.
Of course that was not acceptable to me as it didn't support DTS:X or Atmos - so I just bought a NUC-like Celeron J4105 PC and use it with a recent receiver and the 4K projector.

 I also own a Zidoo Z9X which is super nice but it has it's drawbacks. I still want a kodi solution as I own a lot of imported bluray discs and i want to inject localized subtitles in realtime during play (without ripping the disc).
As far as I understand, the NUC6 doesn't have the LSPCON, and it only has HDMI 1.4a, so it SHOULD work on the LG TV with MVC/Frame packed 3D, but it doesn't, at least not with KODI.  But it works great on the Vizio.

The NUC8, has the LSPCON converter and it also has HDMI 2.0a, which means it shouldn't work at all, but it does on the Vizio, but not the LG.

I also tried a small form factor PC with the Celeron J4125 (Jetway JBC420P891), and it doesn't work right on either TV.  On the Vizio it triggers the TV's 3D function, but I get the dark right eye issue.  On the LG id doesn't enable 3D at all, it behaves like the 8th Gen NUC, in that it reverts the MVC movie to Over/Under.

So a lot of these statements which have been repeated so many times that they're now being taken as gospel, do not apply in every instance or to every configuration
About the LSPCON HDMI2 problem, does someone tested an EDID manager and saw if it may help ?

Also, i suppose that in the case of my Lenovo P17, the HDMI output connector is internaly connected to the nvidia T1000 circuitry (not the intel iGPU) wich probably doesn't have the (in)famous DisplayPort-to-HDMI2 converter chip (LSPCon).....
And it's why it works fine with 3D 1080p24 FP output to my LG C6V wich switch automatically to 3D.
(2023-03-29, 12:26)ecou2508 Wrote: [ -> ]About the LSPCON HDMI2 problem, does someone tested an EDID manager and saw if it may help ?

Also, i suppose that in the case of my Lenovo P17, the HDMI output connector is internaly connected to the nvidia T1000 circuitry (not the intel iGPU) wich probably doesn't have the (in)famous DisplayPort-to-HDMI2 converter chip (LSPCon).....
And it's why it works fine with 3D 1080p24 FP output to my LG C6V wich switch automatically to 3D.
This is something I hadn't considered before, thanks for the idea.

I looked up EDID manager devices, and yes, you can find some seriously expensive ones, but I found this gizmo on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MZ6...UTF8&psc=1

It has a rotary switch that lets you select the EDID mode.  Check out all the modes it can do:

Image
So I bought one of these.  It should get here on Friday.  We'll see how it works
A little correction to one of my post above:

Posted by ecou2508 - 2023-03-27, 20:37
"         3) if resolution is set to 1080p (2D) and i don't switch windows desktop to 3D mode: Kodi does NOT recognise a 3D display and output 3D movies in H-SBS mode ! ! !"

FALSE: it was like this because in Kodi settings, i did not set the option so that Kodi can change the "windows desktop 3D" on or off

Now that i activated this option, if Windows Desktop 3D option is off before starting Kodi, then Kodi changes the option automatically and my LG TV switches to 3D mode (FP).
And also a little remark for the multi-GPU mode (iGPU+GTX1060, hdmi out on iGPU=motherboard):

Kodi plays fine all SBS /TAB and render them in "hardware mode" 3D frame packed HDMI 1080p/24 but NOT the MVC files => Black output for the video (and im using the MVC build of Kodi), whereas MPC-HC with MadVR plays them fine in exactly the same conditions ! ! !
HTPC:
thinkpad X1 Carbon 2018
intel® Core™ i5-8250U
Intel® UHD Graphics 620 drive version:27.20.100.9749 2021/6/24
kodi:KodiSetup-v20.0.2-05d7303c-mvc-upstream-x64
display:xgimi rs2 pro ;support frame packed

problem:
first,The display settings of the windows system, the 3D display can turned on, and the 3D display projector displays two identical windows images.
kodi settings player render method dxva;Allow hardware acceleration-dxva2 is off;auto control windows 3D is on.
and I have modified HW level at 20-35
when koid playback 3d mode is hardware based,image flickering on one eye,and other eye normal
any idea?

ask a question
and,I want to know, when koid playback 3d mode is hardware based, and windows 3D is on, it is full-frame 3D,
but if koid playback 3d mode is over/under or side by side ,and windows 3D off, it is normal to watch 3d, but is this the half resolution quality

Please excuse my bad English,thank very much.
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