Ok so I know this topic has been beaten half to death but I'd like to raise it back to life briefly since the playing field has changed a bit... So before now, the major limiting factor for using a Mac Mini as a truly viable option for an HTPC solution was the processor. Well now that Apple has upgraded the processors to 2.53GHZ and 2.66GHZ should this now make the Mac Mini truly HTPC worthy? My current Vista HPTC is a Core2Duo at 2.4GHZ and it's been able to play any 1080P content I throw at it, including a very high profile 1080 of Transformers 2 as well as a very high bitrate encoded Harry Potter: Half Blood prince... The only issue is this machine is KILLING my power bill etc... and it's HUGE and very very loud. I'd like your thoughts on replacing this with the current Mac Mini @2.53GHZ or 2.66GHZ... The only difference I can see is that my Vista box has 4MB L2 cache and the Mac Mini has 3MB L2 shared cache. I'm not sure if the L2 cache would be the limiting factor here or if the Mac Mini should perform as well as my current HTPC or even better... Not to mention Snow Leopard has much better video and resolution options... Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
mrt2 Wrote:Ok so I know this topic has been beaten half to death but I'd like to raise it back to life briefly since the playing field has changed a bit... So before now, the major limiting factor for using a Mac Mini as a truly viable option for an HTPC solution was the processor. Well now that Apple has upgraded the processors to 2.53GHZ and 2.66GHZ should this now make the Mac Mini truly HTPC worthy? My current Vista HPTC is a Core2Duo at 2.4GHZ and it's been able to play any 1080P content I throw at it, including a very high profile 1080 of Transformers 2 as well as a very high bitrate encoded Harry Potter: Half Blood prince... The only issue is this machine is KILLING my power bill etc... and it's HUGE and very very loud. I'd like your thoughts on replacing this with the current Mac Mini @2.53GHZ or 2.66GHZ... The only difference I can see is that my Vista box has 4MB L2 cache and the Mac Mini has 3MB L2 shared cache. I'm not sure if the L2 cache would be the limiting factor here or if the Mac Mini should perform as well as my current HTPC or even better... Not to mention Snow Leopard has much better video and resolution options... Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
If your concern is your power bill, get a zotac platform and run linux with vdpau (hw video decode). It will eat everything you can toss at it and never see more than 30 percent CPU.
That or the new MacMinis (which also have a Nvidia 9400) chipset. To handle full blown 1080p, you have two choices, fast CPU or hw video decode.
Since you already at at 2.4GHZ with software decode, moving up to 2.66GHZ is minor and might not be enough for your wish list. As for power, it's going to be a push with the MacMini maybe edging out you existing box but that all depends on what else is inside your existing box.
Your comment about "Snow Leopard has much better video and resolution options" is immaterial. XBMC used OpenGL for rendering, not video decode so not much help here. When using software video decode, most of the CPU is spend decoding the video.
davilla Wrote:If your concern is your power bill, get a zotac platform and run linux with vdpau (hw video decode). It will eat everything you can toss at it and never see more than 30 percent CPU.
That or the new MacMinis (which also have a Nvidia 9400) chipset. To handle full blown 1080p, you have two choices, fast CPU or hw video decode.
Since you already at at 2.4GHZ with software decode, moving up to 2.66GHZ is minor and might not be enough for your wish list. As for power, it's going to be a push with the MacMini maybe edging out you existing box but that all depends on what else is inside your existing box.
Your comment about "Snow Leopard has much better video and resolution options" is immaterial. XBMC used OpenGL for rendering, not video decode so not much help here. When using software video decode, most of the CPU is spend decoding the video.
Well does fast CPU or hw video decode make a difference? I guess what I'm asking is both options work but is one actually better than the other? Other than the fact that if I use the hw video decode option probably saves more on power etc... I guess my real issue is this: since my current hardware and processor power is enough for the movies I run, would the Mac Mini do just as well or would it somehow have performance that's not as good? If that depends on what else is in my Vista box then here are the specs:
Core2Duo e6600 (2.4 GHZ)
1k PSU
2GB RAM
Nvidia 8800GTX
7200RPM HD
The major difference is the video card and the power supply and cache... in my mind (obviously not as knowledgeable as you) since XBMC is software decode using CPU power only then the only thing that matters is the CPU so the cache is the only thing in contention... am I wrong in this? Can you shed some light for me? Thanks for any help you can give. Also thanks for your response so far... I appreciate you taking the time.
mrt2 Wrote:Well does fast CPU or hw video decode make a difference? I guess what I'm asking is both options work but is one actually better than the other? Other than the fact that if I use the hw video decode option probably saves more on power etc... I guess my real issue is this: since my current hardware and processor power is enough for the movies I run, would the Mac Mini do just as well or would it somehow have performance that's not as good? If that depends on what else is in my Vista box then here are the specs:
Core2Duo e6600 (2.4 GHZ)
1k PSU
2GB RAM
Nvidia 8800GTX
7200RPM HD
The major difference is the video card and the power supply and cache... in my mind (obviously not as knowledgeable as you) since XBMC is software decode using CPU power only then the only thing that matters is the CPU so the cache is the only thing in contention... am I wrong in this? Can you shed some light for me? Thanks for any help you can give. Also thanks for your response so far... I appreciate you taking the time.
Not quite sure what you are asking. Nvidia 8800 vs Nvidia 9400, no question there. 2.4 vs 2.6 GHZ, also no question there. Power consumption is going to be about the same. Nothing magic about a MacMini.
You seemed to be concerned with power consumption, I tossed out using XBMC for Linux with vdpau (hardware video decode) on a zotac platform as an alternative. It will use much less power than either your current or a MacMini system.
And cache will not matter much. Again video decoding is the CPU sucker and cache size just does not matter that much with respect to video decoding.
davilla Wrote:Not quite sure what you are asking. Nvidia 8800 vs Nvidia 9400, no question there. 2.4 vs 2.6 GHZ, also no question there. Power consumption is going to be about the same. Nothing magic about a MacMini.
You seemed to be concerned with power consumption, I tossed out using XBMC for Linux with vdpau (hardware video decode) on a zotac platform as an alternative. It will use much less power than either your current or a MacMini system.
And cache will not matter much. Again video decoding is the CPU sucker and cache size just does not matter that much with respect to video decoding.
I know there is nothing magical about a Mac Mini but it's small and matches the external drives that I have in my current setup. I guess the main concern isn't power... power is side concern but not really critical the main thing is my current HTPC is HUGE and very very very loud which means I have to turn the volume up considerably to overpower it. My real question is this: Will the new Mac mini provide the same performance as my current HTPC. My current HTPC works fine for my needs but I'd like to replace it for the aforementioned reasons. My current HTPC is 2.4GHZ and an Nvidia 8800GTX. The new Mac Mini is 2.53 but only has an Nvidia 9400. If the Mac Mini should produce the same performance then that is what I'd get... if it wouldn't then I'd build my own HTPC and I guess use the linux option even though it's been years since I've used linux...
mrt2 Wrote:I know there is nothing magical about a Mac Mini but it's small and matches the external drives that I have in my current setup. I guess the main concern isn't power... power is side concern but not really critical the main thing is my current HTPC is HUGE and very very very loud which means I have to turn the volume up considerably to overpower it. My real question is this: Will the new Mac mini provide the same performance as my current HTPC. My current HTPC works fine for my needs but I'd like to replace it for the aforementioned reasons. My current HTPC is 2.4GHZ and an Nvidia 8800GTX. The new Mac Mini is 2.53 but only has an Nvidia 9400. If the Mac Mini should produce the same performance then that is what I'd get... if it wouldn't then I'd build my own HTPC and I guess use the linux option even though it's been years since I've used linux...
Should be fine. Max out the RAM. One thing to note. The MacMini will boot all three platforms so you can take your pick
davilla Wrote:Should be fine. Max out the RAM. One thing to note. The MacMini will boot all three platforms so you can take your pick
Thanks dude!
1 last thing. I know that it will boot all three platforms but since it only has the Nvidia 9400, will hardware decoding (VDPAU) even be worth trying?
mrt2 Wrote:Thanks dude!
1 last thing. I know that it will boot all three platforms but since it only has the Nvidia 9400, will hardware decoding (VDPAU) even be worth trying?
Don't be so quick to discount the nvidia 9400, it works quite well under VDPAU.
davilla Wrote:Don't be so quick to discount the nvidia 9400, it works quite well under VDPAU.
Yes it does, I'm running this setup and you can throw anything at it.
I can't give you answers but some data and opinion ...
First, I have 2 Macs, Mac pro quad 2.66 with ATI 1900 vid, also have iMac core 2duo 2.0, with ATI 2400 (128mb).
Both work with XBMC and PLEX very well. Admittedly, XBMC gives a hint more problems which is beyond me since its the real McCoy. However, movie play has no problems.
I recently bought the Mac Mini 2.53 with 4 gigs RAM. I read Larry's newsletter from Other World Computing who claims the new Mini can handle 8 gigs of RAM (unlike the previous models).
The Mac Mini did well with XBMC and PLEX though I had for other reason use analogue 2 channel sound. I believe digital audio should be no problem other than getting the correct cable (requires a mini toslink for the Mini which btw, fits into the same jack - headphones as analogue out does).
To be honest, my gut feeling is to do a dual boot with Linux and exploit the nvidia 9400. After reading various end user results with other boards using the same 9400, it appears to be a good enough choice. I say this because Mini will always be limited in digital audio to DD5 and DTS due to available connections.
If I had to do it again with only design in mind is a media player, I might have spent less and purchased the Asrock Ion which will fair similar with Linux. The Mini does have more CPU power but then again the key is the video here.
If you are in hopes of later going to any of the audio "HD" output, the Mini will not do that nor will ever do it. The Asrock might do it but I would be concerned about the overall combination of CPU and GPU for HD audio and HD video but I may be in error.
Since you are hoping to have a less power hungry alternative to your system this is what I suggest -
Asrock Ion. It is prebuilt and there is plenty of "end user" support here for Linux. In fact, there is a nice script that is available to help with the install and get audio through its HDMI out (along with the video).
If you are wanting to shell out the for the Mini, start with XBMC or PLEX on OSX (Mac operating system). If you find it is insufficient (and I doubt you will for the most part), then try the XBMC Live CD and play with that to see if Linux is something you wish to experience. The script should take all the headaches out for the most part.
I think the Mini could handle it under OSX. I think the Linux engaging the GPU is a plus. The Mini will take less power than your present system because the processor (I may be wrong) is designed for laptops which require less power and thus you have the small form factor/footprint. Whether you go with the Mini, the Ion or a Zoltak solution, do get 4 gigs of RAM as it can be useful not for just playback but if you decide to do other things (for Linux it might be compiling or adding Nero Burner software etc. and for MAC its obvious that more is better).
Last - Before I go over to the Linux side, I have to make sure all those nice things in the Mini can be easily engaged -> Wireless N, IR, Bluetooth and SLEEP. If anyone has used Linux on the Mini and got all of these things to work then its my turn to ask for help here <G>.
- Phrehdd