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I am using Camelot Live (repack) on the original ASRock Ion 330. For the most part it works well, but I am looking for yet smoother video. My install notes/log is here.

My video is output to a Panasonic 50" V10 - a Full HD Plasma with 24p mode. My xorg.conf is the standard one with only two additions - the HWCursor False thing, and DisableTwinView. Shown in full below. Sound is output via hdmi to my Denon 2309 receiver.

I have a few questions/issues - all of which can be summed up as to how do I get the best & smoothest video for movie content and downloaded 720p TV content, with anything else being much less important.

My current settings are to output at 24p, with 'match refresh rate to source' ticked but not the new smooth video options (see below). This means most of my content plays at 24p and the odd older thing at 60hz, presumably as this is twice the encoded speed of 30fps.

When outputting at 24hz, the video is quite smooth, but not perfectly so - I notice very slight speed surges every two or three seconds maybe, noticeable in panning scenes in particular. Had this with 9.0.4 as well but really hoped to use the new smooth video options to fix it. It's not awful, but it is disconcerting - say if you see an aerial shot of a city scene, the cars just don't move smoothly, they appear to subtly speed up and slow down. The 60hz stuff (SD TV material) is very smooth.

1) None of the new smooth video options work - No matter which sync method I chose, the audio and video are significantly out if this is turned on. Is this broken with ION in general, or just mine?

2) After a reboot, I normally find the 24hz setting has been reset to 50hz and I have to change it back again. Shouldn't this stick?

3) Is 24p actually the right thing to choose for a) movies, and b) 720p TV?

4) I have tried to disable composite as seems to be recommended in some friends - if I do this like so:

Code:
Section "Extensions"
   Option          "Composite" "Disable"
EndSection

...then XBMCLive boots to a login screen, not into XBMC. I have also tried it as an option under the "Screen" section, but this doesn't seem to have any effect of note.

5) I have also tried another option I have seen recommended:

Code:
Option "FlatPanelProperties" "Scaling = Native"
under "Screen", but using this, which seems like it might be making things smoother, loses sound - or at least, it appears to invert channels or something. I can hear vocals, but they are like whispers, ambient sounds are there (but not in sync). So that doesn't seem usable.


How do other ASRock owners find this? Am I looking for too much perhaps? I saw Transformers 2 on a 200Hz LCD the other day and while it was very very smooth, it looked in no way cinematic, like it had been shot with a handycam. What I am looking for is 24p, film like, but smooth. Is this possible?
Code:
# nvidia-xconfig: X configuration file generated by nvidia-xconfig
# nvidia-xconfig:  version 1.0  (buildmeister@builder75)  Tue Dec  8 21:04:28 PST 2009

Section "ServerLayout"
    Identifier     "Layout0"
    Screen      0  "Screen0"
    InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
    InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
EndSection

Section "Files"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
    # generated from default
    Identifier     "Mouse0"
    Driver         "mouse"
    Option         "Protocol" "auto"
    Option         "Device" "/dev/psaux"
    Option         "Emulate3Buttons" "no"
    Option         "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
    # generated from default
    Identifier     "Keyboard0"
    Driver         "kbd"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
    Identifier     "Monitor0"
    VendorName     "Unknown"
    ModelName      "Unknown"
    HorizSync       28.0 - 33.0
    VertRefresh     43.0 - 72.0
    Option         "DPMS"
EndSection

Section "Device"
    Identifier     "Device0"
    Driver         "nvidia"
    VendorName     "NVIDIA Corporation"
    Option         "HWCursor" "False"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
    Identifier     "Screen0"
    Device         "Device0"
    Monitor        "Monitor0"
    DefaultDepth    24
    Option         "NoLogo" "True"
    Option         "DynamicTwinView"      "False"
    #Testing options
    #Option "FlatPanelProperties" "Scaling = Native"
    #Option "DigitalVibrance" "63"
    SubSection     "Display"
        Depth       24
    EndSubSection

#Section "Extensions"
#   Option          "Composite" "Disable"
#EndSection

EndSection
bossanova808 Wrote:How do other ASRock owners find this? Am I looking for too much perhaps? I saw Transformers 2 on a 200Hz LCD the other day and while it was very very smooth, it looked in no way cinematic, like it had been shot with a handycam. What I am looking for is 24p, film like, but smooth. Is this possible?

You could have 1000hz and it wont make a difference if you dont get the 24p to match the hz correctly.

You ideally want 24hz otherwise need to find decent hz that matches or if the TV can do it's own tricks to properly to match the fps to a higher hz setting.
Tainted Wrote:You could have 1000hz and it wont make a difference if you dont get the 24p to match the hz correctly.

You ideally want 24hz otherwise need to find decent hz that matches or if the TV can do it's own tricks to properly to match the fps to a higher hz setting.

Well, the TV can do 24hz and the 'z' and 'o' checks confirm that the video output is 24Hz and the material is 23.96 or thereabouts. So I am pretty sure XBMC is outputting *almost* 24 and the TV displaying it as 24 - but it's still not 100% smooth.
Hello bossanova808,
Please have a look to this post:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=460...stcount=36
Running XBMC in standalone has solved the problem for me.
I didn't try the latest XBMC version
bossanova808 Wrote:1) None of the new smooth video options work - No matter which sync method I chose, the audio and video are significantly out if this is turned on. Is this broken with ION in general, or just mine?

Turn on sync playback to display and debug logging, play a video for a couple minutes that shows the issue and post a debug log on pastebin, I'll take a look.

It should work fine on an ion.
freddy Wrote:Hello bossanova808,
Please have a look to this post:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=460...stcount=36
Running XBMC in standalone has solved the problem for me.
I didn't try the latest XBMC version

I'm using Live so I don't think this applies but thanks!
bobo1on1 Wrote:Turn on sync playback to display and debug logging, play a video for a couple minutes that shows the issue and post a debug log on pastebin, I'll take a look.

It should work fine on an ion.

Will do - thanks - in a few hours (it's my birthday and I have a family lunch to attend before I am allowed to play!!)
Ok pastebin debug log of 720p movie being played with each of the three 'sync playback to display' modes enabled in turn (1. Audio Clock, 2. Video Clock (resample) and 3. Video Clock (Drop/Dupe)) - all three result in out of sync sound.

I notice in the debug message at the top of screen, the FPS is listed as 25 for all of these - shouldn't it be 24Huh As soon as I turn of the sync playback to display, it plays at 24 fps according to the message. And while it stays at 24, it still isn't perfectly smooth (although again I should stress it's fine, it's not a serious judder or anything, just a slight unsmoothness that I don't think should be there, a slight jerkiness as described above).

Many thanks for help with this - I hope it is useful for others too!
bossanova808 Wrote:I am using Camelot Live (repack) on the original ASRock Ion 330. For the most part it works well, but I am looking for yet smoother video. My install notes/log is here.

My video is output to a Panasonic 50" V10 - a Full HD Plasma with 24p mode. My xorg.conf is the standard one with only two additions - the HWCursor False thing, and DisableTwinView. Shown in full below. Sound is output via hdmi to my Denon 2309 receiver.

I have a few questions/issues - all of which can be summed up as to how do I get the best & smoothest video for movie content and downloaded 720p TV content, with anything else being much less important.

My current settings are to output at 24p, with 'match refresh rate to source' ticked but not the new smooth video options (see below). This means most of my content plays at 24p and the odd older thing at 60hz, presumably as this is twice the encoded speed of 30fps.

When outputting at 24hz, the video is quite smooth, but not perfectly so - I notice very slight speed surges every two or three seconds maybe, noticeable in panning scenes in particular. Had this with 9.0.4 as well but really hoped to use the new smooth video options to fix it. It's not awful, but it is disconcerting - say if you see an aerial shot of a city scene, the cars just don't move smoothly, they appear to subtly speed up and slow down. The 60hz stuff (SD TV material) is very smooth.

1) None of the new smooth video options work - No matter which sync method I chose, the audio and video are significantly out if this is turned on. Is this broken with ION in general, or just mine?

2) After a reboot, I normally find the 24hz setting has been reset to 50hz and I have to change it back again. Shouldn't this stick?

3) Is 24p actually the right thing to choose for a) movies, and b) 720p TV?

4) I have tried to disable composite as seems to be recommended in some friends - if I do this like so:

Code:
Section "Extensions"
   Option          "Composite" "Disable"
EndSection

...then XBMCLive boots to a login screen, not into XBMC. I have also tried it as an option under the "Screen" section, but this doesn't seem to have any effect of note.

5) I have also tried another option I have seen recommended:

Code:
Option "FlatPanelProperties" "Scaling = Native"
under "Screen", but using this, which seems like it might be making things smoother, loses sound - or at least, it appears to invert channels or something. I can hear vocals, but they are like whispers, ambient sounds are there (but not in sync). So that doesn't seem usable.


How do other ASRock owners find this? Am I looking for too much perhaps? I saw Transformers 2 on a 200Hz LCD the other day and while it was very very smooth, it looked in no way cinematic, like it had been shot with a handycam. What I am looking for is 24p, film like, but smooth. Is this possible?

It can be as smooth as the original content

I think I know what your problem is. You are not playing your contents at the original framerate. You are using a different framerate.

Have you got the "adjust refresh rate" or simmilar checked?

Playing a 60p content at 24 does not make it smoother. It introduces artifacts, in this case, something simmilar to drops.

If you sync playback to something when you are playing 50p material (25p if it in includes the same frame twice) it can resample and slow down or up either audio or video by a tiny 2-3% and you can not notice it, and that is when you claim that the content is playing best for you.

My advice is to choose the adjust refresh rate, and let XBMC decide for you the output (in playing 24p, it will output 24p, if playing 50p it will output normaly 25, and your TV will choose 50.

Try it, and let us know. You can use the sample in this thread (http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=36803). If that plays smooth (and your platform should play it smooth as mine does), almost everything will be (allow for some frame drops and a small judder at the beginning for the renderer to adjust. If you want to play a bit more, disable VDAPU with this this sample and realise what real crappy playback is).

Have fun!!! Your platform can!!
As I mentioned, I have 'adjust refresh rate' ticked and the material I am playing is 24p (movies or 720 tv encondes) - all in mkv containers. In the pastbin posted you can see it detects refresh rate of 24hz (RandR it uses IIRC)/

I'm not talking about the judder from say a maxxed out CPU that happens without VDPAU. I'm talking about a subtle lack of smoothness....a kind of subtle mis-timing effect. But it may be the source (all of these sources?).

But at least the smoothvideo options should work, right?

I have the whole Earth thing and overall it plays well - but just not perfectly smooth.

I tried again with 'FlatPanelProperties' and that really is smoot - but kind of too smooth, it looks like video cam stuff rather than like film. Maybe I am just not used to what it should look like, but being a professional photographer I've got a good eye for image stuff and I think what I have it almost right, 99% there, just a tiny bit of remaining non-smoothness in panning etc.
I just tried that KillaSampla - it has the slight jerkiness I mention. Also, I get green glitches when the refresh changes from 50 to 24, and when I restart the clip, sometimes even green glitches with the first play.

The actual clip from Earth itself (well, my 1080p mkv version) plays just fine, though.
Turn off adjust refreshrate or force scaling method to native, because the videodriver is not switching to 24 hertz, but it's saying that it does.
That's why sync playback to display is not working correctly.
bobo1on1 Wrote:Turn off adjust refreshrate or force scaling method to native, because the videodriver is not switching to 24 hertz, but it's saying that it does.
That's why sync playback to display is not working correctly.

You are right - if I set the system to 50hz playback it (smoothvideo, with drop/dup audio) works. However if I set it to 24hz smoothvideo still doesn't work, the voice is still out of sync (at least with NTSC material). and of course I also lose the adjust reresh rate feature which is nice as all material plays at the original FPS then - so it seems I can't have both of these on.

If I force the scaling method, I get that super smooth look that doesn't look like film, presumably because the TV is turning 24Hz into 96 or similar. there's an interesting article about all this here: the big judder problem and overhyping of 24p

I take it this is ultimately the result of a bug in the NVidia driver then? That is, it not setting the refresh rate correctly?

It's all very interesting. If I set the system to 50Hz, and turn on smoothvideo, I think that might be the best option overall - the 24p stuff seems slightly smoother and everything else seems smooth too.

Think I will try this on for size for a few days and form a better impression - thanks for your help so far. I think maybe I just don't like 24p judder on progressive panels, but also don't love that super smooth look!!
I have my refresh rate set to fixed 50Hz. This makes my TV go into 100Hz mode.

Sync to display is set to use the resample audio method.

This is smooth as silk. I haven't been able to find a single scene with judder at all after using these settings.
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