Kodi Community Forum

hi all
ok probably sticking out my neck a bit here but i was thinking about how development of new features is really progressing nicely and xbmc is getting more feature packed and stable by the day. but what about the skinning engine? isn't it lagging a bit in functionality? it's been a prett straight forward 'add image place it on screen' process since the beginning. i'd say animated gifs was the last thing that took it to a new level. anyone agree?

in my opinion there could be some things done to really lift the gui to another level. some more advanced and some less advanced. i know any change would require devs to want to do it and that is always the most important factor to get hings done with features.

my intention with this post is to get a decent discussion going where people with some kind of experience in doing skinning for xbmc should contribute. a discussion that maybe could lead to a wishlist and a feedback to any dev out there that would be willing to do some work in this area.

not the "this and that would be sooo cool" kind of discussion but rather a "this and that would add this and that possibility because of xxxx" discussion.

hope it doesnt sound to boring but i was hoping for something constructive

the first things that i come to think of that has been suggested before are:

1. animation of gfx: <pos1> to <pos2> in <time> fex
2. animated rotation of gfx:<ang1> to <ang2> in <time>
3. swf support (which isn't really feasible but still)
4. avi support for skin gfx

my quicklist...  opinions?


/floink

great thread, floink

i mayaswell give some input, seeing as i'm kinda the one who screws the gui up for skinners the most :p

points 1 and 2 are probably easy enough to do. as far as animation goes, the easiest things is to do it texture based (ie using the 3d engine). we probably want to keep the actual gui 2d as much as possible, as i don't think things like this benefit from a 3d interface (except for maybe looking cooler which imo is not the point).

animated gifs are a memory hog as we have to store all the different frames as full textures. just see how much mem project mayhem is using on the home page for an example - and that is only with a couple of anim gifs.

moving things around (changing position/size/angle) and so on is easy enough, as is doing colour effects such as alpha fades.

as for video embedded in the skin, i think it would have to be restricted to wmv (xmv) which the xbox can handle without the need for mplayer etc.

i'm interested in everyones ideas, and am willing to look into incorporating some of them once they've been thought through to a sufficient level.

also, any suggestions on how the skin system could be improved to make it easier to skin would also be good.

cheers,
jonathan

(jmarshall @ oct. 23 2004,10:04 Wrote:moving things around (changing position/size/angle) and so on is easy enough, as is doing colour effects such as alpha fades.

as for video embedded in the skin, i think it would have to be restricted to wmv (xmv) which the xbox can handle without the need for mplayer etc.

both those features would open up a possibility to make very nice skins imho.

(jmarshall @ oct. 23 2004,10:04 Wrote:as far as animation goes, the easiest things is to do it texture based (ie using the 3d engine).

does this mean one would probably use some kind of dx9 functions to achieve the 'movement' of gfx but keeping it in two dimensions?

Quote:we probably want to keep the actual gui 2d as much as possible, as i don't think things like this benefit from a 3d interface (except for maybe looking cooler which imo is not the point).

totally agree. it's been tried and failed several times before. it would also as far as i can see it add imensly to the complexity of skinning. the 'new' dashes coming out nowdays basically have some base elements in 3d that are coloured end texured differently from skin to skin. not really adding to the diversity of the skins.

Quote:animated gifs are a memory hog as we have to store all the different frames as full textures.  just see how much mem project mayhem is using on the home page for an example - and that is only with a couple of anim gifs.
as for video embedded in the skin, i think it would have to be restricted to wmv (xmv) which the xbox can handle without the need for mplayer etc.

the advantage of gifanims in this case is that they are fairly easy to create. creating vmw files is another deal but they could achieve the same kind of effects that gifanims do. from what you say my conclusion is that xmv files would be a benefit memorywise? one area where vmw's could add nice effects is in backgrounds.
as a skinner you would probably want to be able to control repeat and playonce stuff.

Quote:moving things around (changing position/size/angle) and so on is easy enough, as is doing colour effects such as alpha fades.

been thinking alot about this. and this could be used for fex hiding/showing buttons (like the new sub menu), which in turn would add space for file/thumbs lists and such. this would add complexity to navigation and could be solved in different ways. fex using display button on remote to hide/show buttons.
or in my skin retro in the home screen i have a little window that could have images rotating in/out of view (if you remember ).

Quote:i'm interested in everyones ideas, and am willing to look into incorporating some of them once they've been thought through to a sufficient level.

this was exactly my point with this kind of discussion.

Quote:also, any suggestions on how the skin system could be improved to make it easier to skin would also be good.

i'm not sure, maybe this is possible already but a thing i've been missing is the ability add skin specific stuff to references.xml. like in my case i want to add a bg and fg gfx to file/thumb lists. to really simplify skinning would be to create a good skinning application. havent had the chance to try out xform yet but maybe endorsin such a project from the xbmc team would help?

...and thx for great feedback. i'm really looking forward to hear chokeys opinions on this too.
/floink

as this is a feature suggestion (actually it it several different feature suggestions) i'm moving this to the feature suggestions forum.
note! you should split each separate feature into it's own topic thread for our managebility benifit. some things already suggested:
- game and video preview/intro support, using (wmv/xmv) preview video clips
- .wav support when navigating main menu; bleep bleeps, bloob, bloobs and clongs
- ram (recently added media) custimization, only scan in specific selected share(s).
- xbmc-skin version system of some sort?, to indicate compability for user & xbmc.
- skin container format (uncompressed zip?), standardize archive packs for xml + xpr.
- xbmc skin preview.
- auto-download of gui skins, direct from within xbmc...
- calibrate/adjust ui size, (stretch or shrink), ...a full gui calibration option... (as tv-overscan compensation)
- animated skinning-scripts, skin script language.
- status bar skinnable.
- gui requests; icons, xml changes etc.
- skinning features; tweening/animation/3d support?.
- use default skin graphics.
- gui suggestion.
- layout change for default skin, an option?
- improved ui; no more "computer" feeling please.
- display 'recently added' items per category, in place of main menu graphics.
- how about an eject button