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+--- Thread: Android Zidoo X9S (X-series) 4K HDR / 3D / HD Audio / ZDMC (Kodi fork): Review & Use (/showthread.php?tid=291943)
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RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - OlivierQC - 2018-01-31
Hello lionne,
I'm sure you'll find the right settings to use with your Zidoo.
-----------
About me :
I do not have stuttering with HD movies.
No banding with my equipment, but other peoples have banding so i think there is a problem since the FW 1.4.12 and his new option : HDMI range mode, it's just my opinion.
Home Theater V2.0 works very well for a BETA version, I am very optimistic for the future.
With my settings I have no problems, everything works properly with my daily use.
-----------
For information :
I only have HD and UHD video files in MKV, ISO, BDMV (no DVD, no dvix, etc...)
I do not use subtitles
I'm just using Zidoo to watch my movies
see you
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - lionne - 2018-01-31
Thanks, OlivierQC. I'm considering installing the 2.0.5 beta since either way it seems this player has issues. I'll post more details later but I can say already that DVD is totally broken in 1.4.12. I mean unwatchable. So at this point I have nothing to lose by trying 2.0.5 before giving up on this.
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - lionne - 2018-01-31
Well I installed 2.0.5.
DVD playback is as broken as it was in 1.4.12. I detailed it in the Zidoo forum in the 2.0.5 beta thread. So much wrong with DVD playback.
I also tried playing the same DVDs in ZDMC, but both NTSC and PAL have constant stuttering every few seconds, making it unwatchable. This is with the Zidoo's HDMI options set to HDMI auto. I also tried it with HDMI 1080p@60Hz.
Any idea why ZDMC plays DVDs with such heavy stutter? Could I have a setting wrong somewhere in ZDMC or a compatibility issue between ZDMC and the Zidoo options?
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - lionne - 2018-01-31
I also tried a few images with the Zidoo image viewer, and the severe banding is much improved. I do still have noticeable banding, but that may be due to my panel as they look about the same now as if I play them in my other media players. Not sure what changed, but something is definitely different with 2.0.5 regarding banding, at least for images. I tried a number of deep color settings and YCbCr/RGB settings, and they all looked about the same.
I'm not sure how this will affect banding in video files as I haven't tested any yet.
I also haven't tested for the 23.976/24Hz output issue in 4:4:4/auto yet. I'll check it out later and see if I can spot any stutter. My TV doesn't tell me what frame rate it's receiving, just the resolution. Is there any way of confirming what the Zidoo is putting out for framerate?
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - wrxtasy - 2018-01-31
(2018-01-31, 05:30)lionne Wrote: Any idea why ZDMC plays DVDs with such heavy stutter? Could I have a setting wrong somewhere in ZDMC or a compatibility issue between ZDMC and the Zidoo options?It could be DVD interlacing causing issues with ZDMC and the Zidoo X9S
Try SPMC 16.x (Playstore install) or 17.x:
http://download.semperpax.com/spmc/android-arm/SPMC-spmc-krypton-1f9a682-armeabi-v7a.apk
SPMC has in Video settings an option for mpeg2 video acceleration - set it to HD and UP - so 480i mpeg2 DVD's will be CPU software decoded and software deinterlaced.
Then whilst playing DVD's go into the On Screen > Video settings > Deinterlace method > select YADIF2x
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - lionne - 2018-01-31
Well I tested my motion bars with the new 2.0.5 firmware.
I played both 23.976 and 24.000 motion bar patterns. I have 2 different test videos for each framerate, for a total of 4 files. I tested every combination of settings for both color space and deep color, including color space set to 4:4:4 and auto color space. I also tested in both 1080p and 2160p HDMI resolutions. There appears to be no issue with frame rates being played incorrectly for 23.976/24.000, based on my tests. I skipped 1.5.0, but 2.0.5 now confirms both the resolution and framerate the file is output as in the upper-right corner after playback starts. When playing 23.976 motion test bars, the resolution/framerate switches and the pop-up confirms it has switched to 23.976fps. When playing 24.000 motion test bars, the resolution/framerate switches and the pop-up confirms it has switched to 24.000fps.
I watched the motion bars closely and did not see any stuttering at 42-second intervals (the timing you would see 23.976/24.000 stutters). I watched several times on auto color space and 4:4:4 settings. So from what I can see, there is no issue with 23.976 playing at 24.000 on 2.0.5 firmware when in 4:4:4 or auto color space. I don't know if/when it was fixed, all I can report is I don't see this issue on my x9s with the current firmware.
If anybody has a different experience on 2.0.5, please post your findings.
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - lionne - 2018-01-31
(2018-01-31, 05:49)wrxtasy Wrote:I haven't tried SPMC yet, but I did go into the ZDMC settings during DVD playback and tried disabling de-interlacing, just to see what would happen, and besides seeing interlacing lines, the video continued to stutter badly. I wish I knew what was wrong with ZDMC and DVD playback. I haven't yet tried ZDMC for any other file types.(2018-01-31, 05:30)lionne Wrote: Any idea why ZDMC plays DVDs with such heavy stutter? Could I have a setting wrong somewhere in ZDMC or a compatibility issue between ZDMC and the Zidoo options?It could be DVD interlacing causing issues with ZDMC and the Zidoo X9S
Try SPMC 16.x (Playstore install) or 17.x:
http://download.semperpax.com/spmc/android-arm/SPMC-spmc-krypton-1f9a682-armeabi-v7a.apk
SPMC has in Video settings an option for mpeg2 video acceleration - set it to HD and UP - so 480i mpeg2 DVD's will be CPU software decoded and software deinterlaced.
Then whilst playing DVD's go into the On Screen > Video settings > Deinterlace method > select YADIF2x
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - wesk05 - 2018-01-31
(2018-01-31, 07:34)lionne Wrote: I also tested in both 1080p and 2160p HDMI resolutions. There appears to be no issue with frame rates being played incorrectly for 23.976/24.000, based on my tests. I skipped 1.5.0, but 2.0.5 now confirms both the resolution and framerate the file is output as in the upper-right corner after playback starts. When playing 23.976 motion test bars, the resolution/framerate switches and the pop-up confirms it has switched to 23.976fps. When playing 24.000 motion test bars, the resolution/framerate switches and the pop-up confirms it has switched to 24.000fps.The banding and refresh rate issues are nothing new. I tested firmwares 1.2.7, 1.4.6, 1.4.12, 1.5 and 2.05. They are present in all of them. As I alluded to in my previous post, the banding issue likely has nothing to do with Zidoo. It might be a display related problem. Now that UHD rips have become common, the issue is coming to notice. The banding seems to be visible only on sky scenes.
I watched the motion bars closely and did not see any stuttering at 42-second intervals (the timing you would see 23.976/24.000 stutters). I watched several times on auto color space and 4:4:4 settings. So from what I can see, there is no issue with 23.976 playing at 24.000 on 2.0.5 firmware when in 4:4:4 or auto color space. I don't know if/when it was fixed, all I can report is I don't see this issue on my x9s with the current firmware.
If anybody has a different experience on 2.0.5, please post your findings.
As for the refresh rate issue, it is present only for 2160p 4:4:4 mode. The output refresh rate is different for 10-bit and 12-bit. It is 23.982 for 12-bit and 23.988 for 10-bit. These offsets will theoretically cause stutter every 166.67 and 83.33 seconds resp. This is probably the reason why it has gone unnoticed.
The pop-up doesn't reflect the actual refresh rate. It just tells you what refresh rate/resolution the system is going to switch to.
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - OlivierQC - 2018-01-31
Hello wesk05,
thank you for confirming the problem of stuttering with UHD movie.
I thought it was me who had a problem and people do not talk about it on Zidoo forum
it's discreet and sometimes we see it depending on the scene of the movie but the problem exists.
see you
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - lionne - 2018-02-01
(2018-01-31, 09:31)wesk05 Wrote:Thank you for explaining this. I wasn't aware the refresh rate issue only affects 2160p in 4:4:4 mode, or that it was different depending on deep color settings. I don't have any native 2160p motion bars for testing, but I guess I can just upscale my 1080p motion bars. I'll check tonight and see if I can spot the stutter.(2018-01-31, 07:34)lionne Wrote: I also tested in both 1080p and 2160p HDMI resolutions. There appears to be no issue with frame rates being played incorrectly for 23.976/24.000, based on my tests. I skipped 1.5.0, but 2.0.5 now confirms both the resolution and framerate the file is output as in the upper-right corner after playback starts. When playing 23.976 motion test bars, the resolution/framerate switches and the pop-up confirms it has switched to 23.976fps. When playing 24.000 motion test bars, the resolution/framerate switches and the pop-up confirms it has switched to 24.000fps.The banding and refresh rate issues are nothing new. I tested firmwares 1.2.7, 1.4.6, 1.4.12, 1.5 and 2.05. They are present in all of them. As I alluded to in my previous post, the banding issue likely has nothing to do with Zidoo. It might be a display related problem. Now that UHD rips have become common, the issue is coming to notice. The banding seems to be visible only on sky scenes.
I watched the motion bars closely and did not see any stuttering at 42-second intervals (the timing you would see 23.976/24.000 stutters). I watched several times on auto color space and 4:4:4 settings. So from what I can see, there is no issue with 23.976 playing at 24.000 on 2.0.5 firmware when in 4:4:4 or auto color space. I don't know if/when it was fixed, all I can report is I don't see this issue on my x9s with the current firmware.
If anybody has a different experience on 2.0.5, please post your findings.
As for the refresh rate issue, it is present only for 2160p 4:4:4 mode. The output refresh rate is different for 10-bit and 12-bit. It is 23.982 for 12-bit and 23.988 for 10-bit. These offsets will theoretically cause stutter every 166.67 and 83.33 seconds resp. This is probably the reason why it has gone unnoticed.
The pop-up doesn't reflect the actual refresh rate. It just tells you what refresh rate/resolution the system is going to switch to.
So then the pop-up says it is correctly switching to 2160p/23.976 or 2160p/24.000, but in reality it's actually outputting 23.982/23.988? Yikes, if that's the case, are we sure it's sending the proper framerates for all the other framerates at different resolutions? How, for example, would I know it's correctly sending out 59.940 or 60.000, for example, or that it's converting 25.000/50.000 to 60.000 properly with various settings selected? Doesn't this call into question all other refresh rates too? What could cause it to have an issue specifically with 23.976 but only at 2160p with deep color enabled?
It sounds like this is an issue that they definitely need to fix ASAP.
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - wesk05 - 2018-02-01
(2018-02-01, 02:20)lionne Wrote: Thank you for explaining this. I wasn't aware the refresh rate issue only affects 2160p in 4:4:4 mode, or that it was different depending on deep color settings. I don't have any native 2160p motion bars for testing, but I guess I can just upscale my 1080p motion bars. I'll check tonight and see if I can spot the stutter.
So then the pop-up says it is correctly switching to 2160p/23.976 or 2160p/24.000, but in reality it's actually outputting 23.982/23.988? Yikes, if that's the case, are we sure it's sending the proper framerates for all the other framerates at different resolutions? How, for example, would I know it's correctly sending out 59.940 or 60.000, for example, or that it's converting 25.000/50.000 to 60.000 properly with various settings selected? Doesn't this call into question all other refresh rates too? What could cause it to have an issue specifically with 23.976 but only at 2160p with deep color enabled?
It sounds like this is an issue that they definitely need to fix ASAP.
Until I checked for it specifically, I wasn't also aware that it affected only 2160p. You should be OK to use your 1080p test pattern and output it at 2160p. You will have to disable the adjust resolution option in settings.
23.982 and 23.988 are the actual refresh rates for 2160p 23.976fps content when the output is set to 12 or 10-bit YCbCr 4:4:4 resp. Other frame rates are not affected. 24.000/25.000/30.000/50.000/60.000 are perfect. 29.970/59.940 have minor offsets but I wouldn't worry about it.
It is likely to be some minor error (? typo) in the HDMI transmitter code that is causing this. Zidoo should be able to fix it quickly.
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - lionne - 2018-02-01
Thank you very much for the further explanation.
I did run my motion test bars in 2160p resolution, in 4:4:4 with both deep color set at 10-bit and 12-bit, and I did indeed see the stutter. As you said, they are spaced apart, but they are definitely there, though many won't notice them. I had issues with an older media player sending 23.976 out at 24.000, and I could see the stutter constantly throughout films, so my eyes are sensitive to stutter anyways. It may seem minor to some people, but for those that are sensitive to stutter, and have that configuration, it could definitely ruin their enjoyment.
I brought it up in the 2.0.5 discussion thread, so hopefully they can take care of this issue quickly.
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - lionne - 2018-02-02
Deep color causing the screen to flash black
I used the native "Media Center" player, not ZDMC.
During my testing today with the x9s and my LG LED UHD UH8500, I discovered the screen flashes briefly to black for 1-2 seconds, almost like it's changing resolution or frame rate, but it isn't. It happens randomly but persistently, sometimes several times a minute, sometimes a couple minutes go without it happening. I pinpointed it to deep color when combined with certain color space modes:
HDMI Mode: AUTO
Deep Color Mode: AUTO; 12bit; 10-bit
Color Space Mode:
- YCbCr 422; RGB 444 - no flashing
- AUTO; YCbCr 444; YCbCr 420 - flashing
HDMI Mode: AUTO
Deep Color Mode: OFF
Color Space Mode:
- AUTO; YCbCr 444; YCbCr 420; YCbCr 422; RGB 444 - no flashing
AUTO, YCbCr 444 and YCbCr 420 all cause flashing when any deep color mode is enabled. Any idea why is this happening?
Update:
Black flashing solved!
So I connected my new WalMart Black Web premium certified 18Gbps HDMI 2.0 cable, and it has totally eliminated the screen flashing black. It indeed was my old 1.4 HDMI cable to blame. It couldn't handle 4:4:4 deep color apparently. My LG has 3 HDMI inputs and all 3 accept 4:4:4 from what I've been told, so every HDMI port should act the same for me.
I would say anybody that is having the issue with the screen flashing black should try a premium HDMI 2. o cable, and if that doesn't solve it, try a different HDMI port.
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - lionne - 2018-02-02
Banding
I did some extensive testing today to try and pinpoint what modes were causing banding for me. I'll post the results here. The test file I used (due to it displaying heavy banding) was:
The World In HDR 4K Demo.mkv
http://4kmedia.org/the-world-in-hdr-uhd-4k-demo/
This is with "Switch frame rate and resolution" selected.
I used the native "Media Center" player, not ZDMC.
HDMI mode: AUTO
Color Space: AUTO / YCbCr 444 / YCbCr 420
Deep Color Mode:
- OFF - severe banding
- 10bit - much less banding
- 12bit - minimal/no banding
- AUTO - minimal/no banding
HDMI mode: Auto
Color Space: YCbCr 422 / RGB 444
Deep Color Mode:
- OFF - severe banding
- 10bit - severe banding
- 12bit - severe banding
- AUTO - severe banding
What this tells me is for me, deep color "Auto" is selecting 12-bit, as the results are the same between the two when using color space AUTO / YCbCr 444 / YCbCr 420.
YCbCr 422 / RGB 444 both have severe banding with the above demo and other videos prone to banding, regardless of deep color mode. The only configuration I can use to reduce the banding to an absolute minimum is 12bit deep color in AUTO / YCbCr 444 / YCbCr 420.
Unfortunately, because of the issue with 23.976 files outputting at the wrong frame rate when in 2160p 4:4:4 mode with 10-bit or 12-bit color, this means I cannot use the YCbCr 444 configuration above to reduce/eliminate the banding, because it would introduce the 23.976 stuttering bug.
Is this how the player should be handling banding or is something not right with what the player is sending out? Why do I need to select 12-bit to get the best results, when the TV is 10-bit and the files are processed as 10-bit? Also, I can play that demo above directly from my TV's native media player via USB 3 thumb drive, and it plays with minimal banding - it looks the same through the TV's media player as it does when setting the x9s to 12-bit color in AUTO / YCbCr 444 / YCbCr 420.
Another big drawback of all this is, as I posted above, is I have an issue with the screen flashing back, which I narrowed down to deep color being enabled in AUTO, YCbCr 444 and YCbCr 420 - the very settings I need to eliminate banding. So I have a choice of the screen flashing black (which is unwatchable) or having heavy banding issues on some videos. That's the choice i need to make right now with my configuration.
RE: Zidoo X9S, X8 & X10 (4K / HDR / 3D / HD Audio): Review & User Impressions - OlivierQC - 2018-02-02
Hello lionne,
You use the same settings as me, and what setting you use for the HDMI range mode ?
All the android boxes I've had always indicated 8Bit with 4.2.2 and I've always had banding with this setting.
About flash black : I saw a similar problem with others people who have LG TVs a few months ago about black flash, some solve the problem by changing the hdmi cable but it is not 100% guaranteed.
See you