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[Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - Printable Version

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RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - DDDamian - 2012-05-15

Hi jayhawk - replied in the other thread, but yep - I need to fix that for sure - thanks for pointing it out - easy fix Smile


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - jpsdr - 2012-05-16

(2012-05-15, 23:22)DDDamian Wrote: Passthrough is not dependent on the channel settings, it is "passed through" as is, encoded as it originally was, which is why it plays fine even though channels detected are only two.
I know what passthrough is, but also non passthrough (FLAC) is played in 5.1.

(2012-05-15, 23:22)DDDamian Wrote: The AAC button does nothing at this point. As mentioned earlier "AAC will not play unless your device decodes it natively. If it's playing then obviously it does.
Ok.

Little question : Is DTS-HD MA supported on passthrough ? If i ask, it's only because i have a file with DTS-HD MA (well, at least it's what's xbmc said when i ask codec info), but my receiver isn't displaying "DTS-HD MA" as it usualy does when i play Blu-Ray with DTS-HD MA.
So either it's not supported, either it's still the same EDID issue...
Google search doesn't give me true results (hard to search in an ocean)... Except that if it's the receiver wich is wrong, i'm screwed unless Pioneer update the FW.... I don't beleived on it. If it's the nvidia drivers... a little hope...



RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - DDDamian - 2012-05-16

@jpsdr - yes DTS-HDMA is supported. Your driver has to support it. If you right-click on the speaker icon in the right side of the taskbar, select Playback Devices, and on the HDMI device select properties, it will show you the supported formats. If DTS-HD is in there it will play DTS-MA.


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - jpsdr - 2012-05-16

@DDDamian

First, i must appologise for a not very nice behavior. I must have thank you for your time and help me solved problem instead of a simple "i don't like it".

I'll nevertheless explain why i've been a little upset, about my problem of VIA vs nVidia.
I've got no problem with DirectSound when i was under Windows XP.
After upgrading to Windows7 (after you've telling me a lot of time to do this to have the behavior i wanted), i've got no problem with either DirectSound or Wasapi with all builds and the last build i've done (and keeping for now), by chance, just just before the merge of the new AE.
Suddenly, with the new AE, there is a problem of the VIA highjacking the nVidia with Wasapi... For me, there is an issue in the AE, and not on my end. I would have got the problem since the upgrade to Windows 7 (even on the situation of only Wasapi and not DirectSound) with both versions, it may have been a problem on my end, but in this situation, i don't think it is. So, telling me that the problem is in my end the solution is to disable VIA, period ! .... Undecided
If you had said that, for now, this is the fix, this problem is not a priority (as i have a fix), i would not have react like that.

But my question is : What's your statement about it ?
From my point of view, resuming :
- No issues with Directsound under Windows XP.
- No issues with either DirectSound or Wasapi under Windows 7 before new AE.
- Issues after merge of the new AE.
=> Problem is not on my end, but with something on the new AE.
Now, if you think otherwise, i would like a little explaination of "why".

(2012-05-16, 00:41)DDDamian Wrote: @jpsdr - yes DTS-HDMA is supported. Your driver has to support it. If you right-click on the speaker icon in the right side of the taskbar, select Playback Devices, and on the HDMI device select properties, it will show you the supported formats. If DTS-HD is in there it will play DTS-MA.
It reports DTS-HD. But, I've done this (before reading this post) indeed to check something else, and to go back to another hot subject, it also reports 8 supported audio channels...Big Grin

Is there any debug log code i could had somewhere (maybe trace the raw data from EDID or others things) to help trace to find out why xbmc detect only 2 channels when everyone else seems to detect more...

As i don't know the specs, the following may be stupid questions, but, if xbmc read EDID, are devices :
- Report all the supported numbers audio channels or only the maximum ?
- If they report more than one information, is it supposed to have a specific order ?
- Can the informations be mixed (in a total mess), or are they packed (for exemple all sampling rates are in the same packet, you can't have an audio format mixed in the middle).
I'm asking about only and only the specs, not the usual behavior devices may have.


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - DDDamian - 2012-05-16

@jpsdr - if you wish to re-enable the VIA onboard go ahead - just make sure you select the device you wish to use in both Win and XBMC - AE really doesn't care what device you use, as long as it responds.

If we are talking about the problem being why 2-channels is reported as the max for that card for pcm streams, here's the "why" or how it works:

- Windows reads the EDID data supplied by the device to determine it's capabilities and whether it is actively connected and on
- it only exposes a subset of the EDID data in the registry (unfortunately) so we still have to directly query it for additional data
- this additional data comes from the driver, and is queried via a common WASAPI function called IsFormatSupported()
- to determine your devices' capabilities we ping IsFormatSupported() with various data blocks representing different formats, sample rates, channel counts
- the driver responds with whether or not that particular format/ sample rate/ channel layout is supported
- we do this twice, once at startup for all reported devices, and again just before playback for that specific format
- if IsFormatSupported() returns true, we report it as part of the device capabilites during the device enumeration at start-up (as shown in your log)
- if you are about to play something we ping it again with the stream's format for the selected device
- if IsFormatSupported() returns true in that case, we proceed to try initialize the device with that format. It is not unknown for some mis-behaving devices to report that a format is supported then fails to initialize - the opposite can happen too. I would not expect this to occur with a fairly modern, widespread device like your GT520
- in the case of channels supported, we iterate down from the maximum AE channel count (21 for Windows) to zero until we get a positive response. In your case this should happen when we hit 8 channels - that is what your card supports and it should return true
- if the maximum reported channels is greater than 2.1 we flag it as supporting AE_FMT_LPCM - our shorthand for "Receiver supports multichannel LPCM" as seen in the settings page, although your selection on that page is the determining factor for that support

Your device driver is reporting 2 channels as the maximum it will accept for pcm data, which is incorrect.

Here is a link to my log - you will see near the start that my HDMI device reports 8 channels, and is thus flagged as supporting AE_FMT_LPCM in it's supported formats, among others. See device #3. I briefly play a 5.1 pcm further down.

Here is my EDID report from MonInfo, showing the audio capabilities reported over HDMI, mirroring the same info.

This begs the question: are you using nVidia's most recent drivers? Or a generic Windows driver or old nVidia driver?

I pointed out that EDID data can be missing as some manufacturers did not follow the standard. I find it hard to believe that you couldn't find results on Google - I typed in EDID plus my receiver's model number and got dozens of hits. Tulli over at avsforums is the guru on EDID - just to be the google-bitch here's a link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1227161


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - SkItZo - 2012-05-16

Keep up the great work DDDamian and everyone else. It is appreciated and i wish i had a millionth of the skill that you guys have Big Grin
Also wish i had the time to spend helping to trouble shoot.
I will say that the one movie i have been able to watch (Inception w/ DTS-HD bitstreamed from an ati 5850 to a Pioneer LX71) worked flawlessly
Champions.


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - DDDamian - 2012-05-16

(2012-05-16, 10:25)jpsdr Wrote: As i don't know the specs, the following may be stupid questions, but, if xbmc read EDID, are devices :
- Report all the supported numbers audio channels or only the maximum ?

- EDID reports maximum - we log the maximum as a courtesy for debugging

- If they report more than one information, is it supposed to have a specific order ?

- it follows a standard although this is not always adhered to - see Wikipedia for EDID - the block in question is the "CE audio data (formats supported)"

- Can the informations be mixed (in a total mess), or are they packed (for exemple all sampling rates are in the same packet, you can't have an audio format mixed in the middle).

- see above

I'm asking about only and only the specs, not the usual behavior devices may have.

At current we use the EDID info only for your information, we still ping the driver as described in the previous post due to poor manufacturer adherence to the standards.


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - HeresJohnny - 2012-05-16

I suggest everyone chill and give foreigners the benefit of the doubt that presumably "rude" behaviour is only due to not knowing the language better. We're all friends :-D


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - DDDamian - 2012-05-16

@SkItZo - no worries - by the sounds of it, after (belatedly) following my advice, it's working for him. He's just got an issue now with an erroneous reported value for max pcm channels reported. Probably a driver or EDID issue as I've described a few days ago.

If I bother to go into deep explainations it's for the benefit of all users who may be curious about the inner workings/logic, so no sweat. Thanks for the kudos - it is a labour of love for all the devs. We have varying thicknesses of skin or tolerance levels like anyone else, but the fact that we do it at all is to make XBMC a great HTPC app for everyone Smile

@HeresJohnny - absolutely - this is the Www and I give the benefit of the doubt sometimes to those for whom english is their FIRST language lol


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - jpsdr - 2012-05-16

(2012-05-16, 17:26)DDDamian Wrote: @jpsdr - if you wish to re-enable the VIA onboard go ahead - just make sure you select the device you wish to use in both Win and XBMC - AE really doesn't care what device you use, as long as it responds.
I only wish to be able to re-enable it, in the future, when problem solves. Not in hurry.

(2012-05-16, 17:26)DDDamian Wrote: This begs the question: are you using nVidia's most recent drivers? Or a generic Windows driver or old nVidia driver?
Most recent nVidia, but not the beta (unless there is a new one since this WE...).

(2012-05-16, 17:26)DDDamian Wrote: I pointed out that EDID data can be missing as some manufacturers did not follow the standard. I find it hard to believe that you couldn't find results on Google - I typed in EDID plus my receiver's model number and got dozens of hits
I also typed "EDID VSX-921" but results where...Confused
After i've tried "EDID issues" or "EDID issues Windows 7" but... too much unrelated posts, because research not too much accurate.



RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - DDDamian - 2012-05-16

@jpsdr - I seem to have higher friends at google then Tongue

Here's the official thread at avsforums: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1321970. It confirms AAC decoding.

The receiver should be listed in MonInfo (see my sample) - if not, are you connected directly to the receiver??


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - jpsdr - 2012-05-16

(2012-05-16, 18:48)DDDamian Wrote: The receiver should be listed in MonInfo (see my sample) - if not, are you connected directly to the receiver??
Yes, i am.

But, i've searched and found the VSX-921 specific forum, and just have to get a rope to hang me... No
Because i've found this...

Well, no realy...Rolleyes
It's not as if things were not working. So maybe the issue is somehow more complex...
But maybe it's because of nVidia + VSX-921... Sad

Edit : It seems to be related to 3D support, so, no rope.

The facts are :
a : HDMI audio VSX-921 is selected as default audio device in windows.
b : Property of audio device report 8 channels.
c : No issue with chipset VIA with MPC-HC and VLC.
d: No issue with chipset VIA with XBMC just before AE merge selecting Wasapi VSX-921.
e : Obliged to disable chipset VIA in BIOS to have audio from non pass-through formats since AE merged because even selected Wasapi VSX-921 the device seems not be used.

I am realy the only one to think that a+c+d => issue of e is more probably on side of XBMC + new AE ?
And if there is realy a little something (a problem in initialisation or else), maybe it can have some side effects...
If i insist on this point it's not because i absolutely want my VIA back, it's because, according the facts, i think there is some kind of issue in the air; and if there is an issue, it's better if solved.

As said, i can add in the code more log information and compile a special test build.

If EDID information were wrong, reporting only 2 channels, shouldn't also the point b be false ?



RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - DDDamian - 2012-05-16

(2012-05-16, 19:09)jpsdr Wrote:
(2012-05-16, 18:48)DDDamian Wrote: The receiver should be listed in MonInfo (see my sample) - if not, are you connected directly to the receiver??
Yes, i am.

But, i've searched and found the VSX-921 specific forum, and just have to get a rope to hang me... No
Because i've found this...

I wouldn't let one post bother you - your last results were that everything worked except one file with a flac 2.0 soundtrack, although similar ones did. I mentioned to try demux/remux it.

This issue has gone far beyond AE. If the thread at avsforums doesn't help you may wish to ask specific EDID questions there, or contact the manufacturer. There are no firmware updates for your receiver - there is nothing here for me to fix, and it's consumed enough time/thread attention already now. Feel free to start another thread specific to your issue and receiver, but again, there's nothing here for me to fix. Good luck.


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - jpsdr - 2012-05-16

Argh... You've answered during my long edit...


RE: [Windows] AudioEngine testers - Windows platform only - DDDamian - 2012-05-16

Sigh - please read what I type. The answers are all there. AE works fine with your system despite the lack of EDID info. I've pointed out how it works, workarounds for the poor EDID, google'd for you, etc. I've told you to re-enable your VIA hw if you want. I'm not sure what to do about "it's because, according the facts, i think there is some kind of issue in the air" - what? We ping your driver - it reports 2ch - sorry, that's what it does.

Your quote:
Code:
I've disabled in the BIOS the HD Via audio. Don't understand why there is trouble now and not before...
Nevertheless, doing this miracly made audio work, on all i've been able to test, flac, aac (yes), ac3, ogg, with several channels (2.0, 5.1, 4.0) and even 32bit. Everything worked, except one video, wich audio was flac 2.0 (but others with flac 2.0 worked).

I gave you advice on that one file.

Really - what exactly would you like me to do?


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