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+---- Thread: Why not WMC as backend? (/showthread.php?tid=139748)
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - totalhavoc - 2013-07-17
Check out the NextPVR forums. I had it setup with my HDHR pretty quick. I'm just looking forward to this because our local cable is time warner which means everything is "Copy Once", so if I want channels other than OTA, I need WMC.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - hyde01 - 2013-07-17
(2013-07-17, 23:04)totalhavoc Wrote: Check out the NextPVR forums. I had it setup with my HDHR pretty quick. I'm just looking forward to this because our local cable is time warner which means everything is "Copy Once", so if I want channels other than OTA, I need WMC.
Thanks, I got some guidance already and will try it. I am also using Time Warner but I am just getting their QAM channels straight out of cable, and I could also go down to OTA if needed since that's all I watch anyway. How do you use HDHR with TWC? Do you use HDHR Prime with Cable Card? Since I use HDHR Dual (Original Gray Box) I should not have any problems adding channels, etc. I remember setting up digital cable advisor and getting WMC to recognize Cable Card tuner (ATI Wonder) was a lot of headache.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - Dark_Slayer - 2013-07-23
(2013-07-17, 21:48)bry- Wrote:(2013-07-17, 20:32)hyde01 Wrote: Hopefully this can become reality so I can finally stop switching between XBMC and WMC to watch/record live TV. I have HDHR and I don't see any straight-forward guide to have HDHR working the way it does with WMC (flawless).
If you don't care for protected content nextpvr works flawlessly within XBMC.
I used it for quite a long time with Comcast Copy-Free stations, and I can say it never works flawlessly. In many cases, pressing stop leaves the HDHR tuner light illuminated for up to 5 seconds, during which you will not be able to tune another channel. Try teaching that to everyone in your household, because if a new channel is requested sooner you get the "tuner not available" timeout even though you are supposed to have 3 tuners available. In WMC, you can press stop and go right to the next channel and play without a hiccup. You can also change channels as quickly as you would with a STB from you cableco. In NPVR, even with margro's XBMC builds for fast channel changes, the channel changes take 3-4 seconds for full a/v. If you constantly change channels you can still break playback (tuner not available) whereas WMC never breaks playback.
However, if you just use NPVR (outside XBMC) you actually get the WMC experience. Just doesn't work as good with XBMCs internal player. You can't use external players (like NPVR or MPC-HC with a similar filter selection) for live TV either, so there is essentially no way to get flawless playback even if your cableco sets channels copy-free
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - hyde01 - 2013-07-23
(2013-07-23, 19:44)Dark_Slayer Wrote:(2013-07-17, 21:48)bry- Wrote:(2013-07-17, 20:32)hyde01 Wrote: Hopefully this can become reality so I can finally stop switching between XBMC and WMC to watch/record live TV. I have HDHR and I don't see any straight-forward guide to have HDHR working the way it does with WMC (flawless).
If you don't care for protected content nextpvr works flawlessly within XBMC.
I used it for quite a long time with Comcast Copy-Free stations, and I can say it never works flawlessly. In many cases, pressing stop leaves the HDHR tuner light illuminated for up to 5 seconds, during which you will not be able to tune another channel. Try teaching that to everyone in your household, because if a new channel is requested sooner you get the "tuner not available" timeout even though you are supposed to have 3 tuners available. In WMC, you can press stop and go right to the next channel and play without a hiccup. You can also change channels as quickly as you would with a STB from you cableco. In NPVR, even with margro's XBMC builds for fast channel changes, the channel changes take 3-4 seconds for full a/v. If you constantly change channels you can still break playback (tuner not available) whereas WMC never breaks playback.
However, if you just use NPVR (outside XBMC) you actually get the WMC experience. Just doesn't work as good with XBMCs internal player. You can't use external players (like NPVR or MPC-HC with a similar filter selection) for live TV either, so there is essentially no way to get flawless playback even if your cableco sets channels copy-free
I am sure bry- meant well, because it does seem to work pretty good -on the outside... When I looked at it, I couldn't believe how easy and fast it was to get all my channels (and then some, npvr caught a few unscrambled channels wmc/hdhr could not find). Most importantly WMC's QAM tuning is very limited, you end up having to input all channels one by one. I did have a similar problem with NPVR but their great forum support team was able to help me add the missing channels.
As for the rest of your comments, I totally agree. For the 3 days I have been trying NPVR+XBMC, I faced freeze-ups, tuner getting stuck, tray icon turning red (occupying a tuner and won't switch to another), getting "tuner required for a recording" even though I know tuner should be free, and of course not being able to keep a channel on for more than just a few hours. I tried leaving it running overnight, and I did warn my wife in case if she sees it not responding she should do CTRL+ALT+DEL, which she had to in two instances. Like you said NPVR as a standalone seems to be working well, but if we need a standalone PVR I would just stay with WMC, it is extremely reliable, very quick to tune and switch channels, has total tuner management, great built in guide solutions, and with add-ons like GuideTool makes it even easier to manage channels.
I am planning to try OTA/ATSC with NPVR+XBMC this weekend, to see if it makes things easier, I am even willing to let go a few channels that I only get from my QAM provider just to get my Live TV and Media Center in XBMC since I spent so much time and effort in getting everything running smoothly.
We didn't mean to stray from the topic here, but above are all reasons why we all would hope to see WMC back end one day. Not that WMC is the easiest to deal with, but the most reliable and compatible one out there. I once forgot WMC running with scheduled season recordings and came back to nearly a full season of a show recorded, not one skipped or cut in the middle, whereas XBMC with NPVR struggles at the moment.
Shame on Microsoft for not further developing WMC on desktop PCs/Laptops. Imagine MS offering something like WD TV, a small box with built in storage running a simplified OS strictly for WMC, no other desktop services enabled, teaming up with Silicondust or Ceton and offering a built in tuner.. One can dream.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - scott967 - 2013-07-23
(2013-07-23, 19:57)hyde01 Wrote: I am planning to try OTA/ATSC with NPVR+XBMC this weekend, to see if it makes things easier, I am even willing to let go a few channels that I only get from my QAM provider just to get my Live TV and Media Center in XBMC since I spent so much time and effort in getting everything running smoothly.
Tried this, wasn't happy with the results. Currently launching WMC from XBMC waiting for the backend.
scott s.
.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - JuggalotusHeat - 2013-07-23
Any updates?
Re: RE: Why not WMC as backend? - bry - 2013-07-23
(2013-07-23, 23:22)JuggalotusHeat Wrote: Any updates?
Ditto
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - hyde01 - 2013-07-23
(2013-07-23, 22:58)scott967 Wrote: Tried this, wasn't happy with the results.
.
In that case, I shouldn't keep my hopes up for better functionality using ATSC..
(2013-07-23, 22:58)scott967 Wrote: . Currently launching WMC from XBMC waiting for the backend.That's what I am doing too.. like most of us here..
.
Thanks to bry- I found out about event ghost.
Since we have a lot of WMC+XBMC users here, does anyone care to share their xml file for controlling XBMC and WMC with same remote using same buttons/different functions?
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - MeMeMe - 2013-07-24
(2013-07-23, 23:28)hyde01 Wrote: Since we have a lot of WMC+XBMC users here, does anyone care to share their xml file for controlling XBMC and WMC with same remote using same buttons/different functions?
I haven't tried it, but there's an addon called something like WMC Remote which translates all XBMC shortcuts into WMC ones, so you can use the same remote to control xbmc and WMC.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - hyde01 - 2013-07-24
(2013-07-24, 05:07)MeMeMe Wrote:(2013-07-23, 23:28)hyde01 Wrote: Since we have a lot of WMC+XBMC users here, does anyone care to share their xml file for controlling XBMC and WMC with same remote using same buttons/different functions?
I haven't tried it, but there's an addon called something like WMC Remote which translates all XBMC shortcuts into WMC ones, so you can use the same remote to control xbmc and WMC.
The main problem I'm having is not being able to get rid of green button and other wmc exclusive buttons to stop bringing up WMC everytime they are pressed. I am hunting for that info over at EG website because if we do get WMC backend, we will never need the green button to boot WMC or stuff like TV, Pictures, Videos buttons to bring up these in WMC, instead they will need to bring up these in XBMC.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - LSU Jonno - 2013-07-24
(2013-07-24, 06:19)hyde01 Wrote:(2013-07-24, 05:07)MeMeMe Wrote:(2013-07-23, 23:28)hyde01 Wrote: Since we have a lot of WMC+XBMC users here, does anyone care to share their xml file for controlling XBMC and WMC with same remote using same buttons/different functions?
I haven't tried it, but there's an addon called something like WMC Remote which translates all XBMC shortcuts into WMC ones, so you can use the same remote to control xbmc and WMC.
The main problem I'm having is not being able to get rid of green button and other wmc exclusive buttons to stop bringing up WMC everytime they are pressed. I am hunting for that info over at EG website because if we do get WMC backend, we will never need the green button to boot WMC or stuff like TV, Pictures, Videos buttons to bring up these in WMC, instead they will need to bring up these in XBMC.
My solution was just to buy a harmony one. I think they are down to $99 bucks these days.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - hyde01 - 2013-07-25
Junno, you would be lucky to find it for $99, but even with that it is not a complete solution. When you assign keys, don't you still have to change input?
I think my solution is going to be just setting WMC for recording, and watching everything from XBMC, if I really need to watch something on TV, I will just either watch it on WMC or try to just use guide to remind me and then use strm files to watch it on XBMC.
I always felt more comfortable being able to just remap buttons instead of relying on preprogrammed functionality that's locked in by manufacturer. I have to admit I did not try Harmony One, though.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - TRiddle - 2013-07-25
I currently run xbmc and wmc on the same machine, with my "integration" being done with the xbmc plugin for wmc. I use a harmony one to control everything as well, and it works as expected (disclaimer: I've programmed no less than a few hundred harmony remotes along with marantz, prontos, etc.). The main key I've found is this: set up two discrete devices in the harmony software: a media center pc and a mce keyboard (I think this is what they're called as I'm at work right now and not in front of my system). Most functionality is there with just the media center pc setup, but the mce keyboard comes in play when setting up special functions for keyboard commands within xbmc, the context menu for example. I also re-map "the green button" which sits on the menu key to it's own soft touch key on the screen. I'm sure there are a few other keys I've re-mapped, but those are the main ones I recall off the top of my head. I have full control of xbmc with the harmony while in xbmc, and full control of wmc while within wmc with no conflicting signals. No need for EventGhost (which I've also used very successfully in the past), just the basic harmony software.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - hyde01 - 2013-07-25
Temporary solution until WMC backend is here, I just schedule my recordings in WMC, also let WMC do the hunting with keyword search & record, and then I just use Recorded TV folder in XBMC and watch my recordings, sorted by date. If there was a way for XBMC to decode and display plot summary, etc.. I could very well live with this setup until WMC backend arrives.
Re: RE: Why not WMC as backend? - Livin - 2013-07-25
(2013-07-25, 16:57)hyde01 Wrote: Temporary solution until WMC backend is here, I just schedule my recordings in WMC, also let WMC do the hunting with keyword search & record, and then I just use Recorded TV folder in XBMC and watch my recordings, sorted by date. If there was a way for XBMC to decode and display plot summary, etc.. I could very well live with this setup until WMC backend arrives.
I use WMC as a "back-end" only. All recordings are played using XBMC and any series/show schedules (adds, changes,etc) using the free Remote Potato app, using browser or free Remote Media Center android app. This is much quicker than any 10 foot UI.
I don't channel surf (ie, waste time in front of the tv), so I have no need for a guide in XBMC. I know what I want to watch, it is set to record and I use xbmc to play it and delete it when done.
This way I never watch commercials either. Kind of amazes me people channel surf.
As for the remote... I use Harmony but will be switching to ATI wonder, rd remote, once I get it configured to turn on my receiver and tv.
-- if anyone has done this already, please let me know how you did it. The