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+---- Thread: Why not WMC as backend? (/showthread.php?tid=139748)
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - royfra - 2013-02-12
Only watch recorded tv for me
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - FIBO - 2013-02-12
(2013-02-12, 08:08)dbezerra Wrote: [///]
the two main ones for me are:
1. Live TV
2. Ability to schedule a recording (Series as a P1, individual as P2)
Nice to have:
1. Ability to define how many minutes I want to start to record before the guide data (and how many minutes after the scheduled time I want to record as well) - useful for sports, for example
2. ability to delete series
3. search the guide, schedule recordings from the search result
I think the same but also delayed or skipped watching like in WMC. In wmc the show you're watching is recorded for 45 minutes so you can skip back 45 minutes of a life broadcast. The tricky thing might be that it's a life broadcast so the file is put on the harddisk and read at the same time.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - krustyreturns - 2013-02-13
For those of you interested in the page sensitive WMC application launcher that has also been discussed in this thread…
The code has been cleaned up and Bernr has written a slick installer for it. Those of you who are interested in trying it out can download QuickWMC from here:
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=97357342de886853#cid=97357342DE886853&id=97357342DE886853%21143
As a refresher, you can execute QuickWMC from xbmc’s advanced launcher to start the WMC app of your choice (Netflix, LiveTV, Guide, ScheduledTVRecordings, etc). Navigating the app in wmc will work like normal, but hitting the “back” button past the top level of the app, will shut down wmc and put you back into xbmc (rather than taking you to the wmc main menu). The idea is to make the wmc app act like a single application extension of xbmc.
This app works by installing a small addin in WMC during the install that works in conjunction with QuickWMC. If you decide to uninstall later, it will be removed from wmc along with the launcher (thanks Bernr!).
If you have questions or problems let us know.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - thewarm - 2013-02-14
I just gave it a try. It works, but it opens a small DOS command window first... Is there any way to hide that? (maybe an @echo off line?)
BTW, launching the WMC TV Guide is great! I can watch Live TV, change channels with the keyboard, and then quit WMC and be back in XBMC (which does continue to run in the background... not a problem for my systems, but may be too much for less powerful setups)
Is there a thread for this, or any more info please?
Thanks for this!
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - krustyreturns - 2013-02-14
(2013-02-14, 14:15)thewarm Wrote: I just gave it a try. It works, but it opens a small DOS command window first... Is there any way to hide that? (maybe an @echo off line?)
BTW, launching the WMC TV Guide is great! I can watch Live TV, change channels with the keyboard, and then quit WMC and be back in XBMC (which does continue to run in the background... not a problem for my systems, but may be too much for less powerful setups)
Is there a thread for this, or any more info please?
Thanks for this!
Glad you like it.
QuickWMC doesn't open any dos window, it momentarily shows up in the tray icon but it immediately shuts itself off once it launches wmc. I think you are seeing the window advanced launcher opens (I can't do anything about that). To test it, you can just run the links in the start menu (i.e. don't use advanced launcher), if you still see a dos window I'll be very surprised.
I have not started a thread. Mostly to have people try it and get feedback, also because of laziness. The only more info I can think of is other stuff you can launch in wmc with it. See this:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms814622.aspx
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - thewarm - 2013-02-14
Is advanced launcher the only way to run these from inside XBMC?
Running the links works perfectly BTW!
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - krustyreturns - 2013-02-14
(2013-02-14, 20:05)thewarm Wrote: Is advanced launcher the only way to run these from inside XBMC?
Running the links works perfectly BTW!
I actually don't know what happens if you just run it directly form xbmc, it would be interesting to find out. Let me know if you do.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - bernr - 2013-02-15
(2013-02-14, 17:19)krustyreturns Wrote:(2013-02-14, 14:15)thewarm Wrote: I just gave it a try. It works, but it opens a small DOS command window first... Is there any way to hide that? (maybe an @echo off line?)
BTW, launching the WMC TV Guide is great! I can watch Live TV, change channels with the keyboard, and then quit WMC and be back in XBMC (which does continue to run in the background... not a problem for my systems, but may be too much for less powerful setups)
Is there a thread for this, or any more info please?
Thanks for this!
Glad you like it.
QuickWMC doesn't open any dos window, it momentarily shows up in the tray icon but it immediately shuts itself off once it launches wmc. I think you are seeing the window advanced launcher opens (I can't do anything about that). To test it, you can just run the links in the start menu (i.e. don't use advanced launcher), if you still see a dos window I'll be very surprised.
I have not started a thread. Mostly to have people try it and get feedback, also because of laziness. The only more info I can think of is other stuff you can launch in wmc with it. See this:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms814622.aspx
If anyone wants shortcuts to any of the other pages let me know and I can see about adding them to the installer, once I am back from vacation in a week and a half.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - thewarm - 2013-02-15
(2013-02-14, 17:19)krustyreturns Wrote: To test it, you can just run the links in the start menu (i.e. don't use advanced launcher), if you still see a dos window I'll be very surprised.
The Windows start menu? Or add to the XBMC Menu (somehow?)
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - Scott R - 2013-02-16
Somehow I missed this thread, so I'm glad I found it. I've been experimenting with what I consider to be a creative solution for getting pseudo-live TV working under XBMC, but there are two big problems. Perhaps krusty will have some thoughts on this. The approach I take would make the EPG a lower priority, but requires a smarpthone / tablet. So here's how it works in theory...
My server: a Windows 7 Media Center computer. I have WTV-MetaRenamer set up to run every 15 minutes and rename/move my .wtv files into a format that the XBMC (and Plex) scrapers are willing to work with. This server is also running Plex Media Server (PMS). PMS is not critical to the solution, but I like having it as my single/central metadata manager and for Plex's ability to do on-the-fly transcoding to lesser-powered clients, including smartphones/tablets. I also have Ceton My Media Center's server component running which taps into WMC's EPG data, series recording info, etc.. This software does not require a Ceton tuner (I have an HDHomeRun Prime).
This same computer would also be a client running XBMC with the PleXBMC plug-in (to get all of my movie and TV show metadata from the Plex Media Server). Other clients in the house can be running any OS with XBMC and PleXBMC. Mobile clients would run the Plex app. XBMC clients, in addition to seeing the Plex metadata via PleXBMC, would also have a direct SMB share to the "Recorded TV" folder, so that they could see a live view of any shows that are currently in progress of being recorded (whereas the Plex Media Server won't see these until it does a scan, and with WTV-MetaRenamer won't see them until the show has completed recording, WTV-MetaRenamer has moved them, and PMS has scanned/processed them).
For EPG scheduling, and pseudo-live TV, I would use the Ceton My Media Center app on my iPhone. They also have Android and Windows Phone versions.
So how it would all work together for pseudo-live TV...
1) I fire up the Ceton My Media Center app on my iPhone, look at the EPG, select a show, and tell it to record it.
2) On my client XBMC box, I go into the SMB file share pointing at "Recorded TV" and the show is immediately listed. Note: There will be no metadata for the show, but it should be easy to identify as the filename will have the show name and some date info.
3) I select the show and start playing it.
Problems:
A) Step 3 above does not work under XBMC Frodo. If I selected the show 2 minutes ago in my Ceton EPG app, when I start to play it in XBMC the time/status bar reflects a total runtime of 2 minutes. After 2 minutes of playback (or even a bit under), the show will abruptly stop and you'll be kicked back to the XBMC menu, even though the total runtime is now actually about 4 minutes. At that point, if you were to select it again, the time/status bar will reflect 4 minutes, and you'll get kicked out again once you hit that 4 minute mark. Important: Under XBMC Eden this is *NOT* an issue. You can keep watching the show all the way to the end. The time/status bar will show a seemingly bizarre total runtime which changes (and never looks correct), but it appears to let you continue to play the in-progress recording all the way to the end. This indicates to me that this is a *BUG* in Frodo (or, at least, a previously working capability that should be relatively easy to re-implement). Note: This is also a problem in the Plex client app (I don't know if it might have worked under previous versions of the Plex client app).
B) When running XBMC Frodo (I haven't tried this with Eden) on the same box as my WMC server, I use the Ceton smartphone app to select a show to record. But, then I navigate in XBMC to my SMB share to "Recorded TV" and I see the show, but if I try to play it, XBMC just clocks, and eventually kicks back an error. At that point, it also seems like my Ceton smartphone app starts having problems connecting to the Ceton server component. Again, this problem appears to only affect the box running both WMC and the XBMC client. On other XBMC clients (e.g., my MacBook Air), I can play these but have the issue described above (A).
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - krustyreturns - 2013-02-16
(2013-02-16, 17:27)Scott R Wrote: Problems:
A) Step 3 above does not work under XBMC Frodo. If I selected the show 2 minutes ago in my Ceton EPG app, when I start to play it in XBMC the time/status bar reflects a total runtime of 2 minutes. After 2 minutes of playback (or even a bit under), the show will abruptly stop and you'll be kicked back to the XBMC menu, even though the total runtime is now actually about 4 minutes. At that point, if you were to select it again, the time/status bar will reflect 4 minutes, and you'll get kicked out again once you hit that 4 minute mark. Important: Under XBMC Eden this is *NOT* an issue. You can keep watching the show all the way to the end. The time/status bar will show a seemingly bizarre total runtime which changes (and never looks correct), but it appears to let you continue to play the in-progress recording all the way to the end. This indicates to me that this is a *BUG* in Frodo (or, at least, a previously working capability that should be relatively easy to re-implement). Note: This is also a problem in the Plex client app (I don't know if it might have worked under previous versions of the Plex client app).
B) When running XBMC Frodo (I haven't tried this with Eden) on the same box as my WMC server, I use the Ceton smartphone app to select a show to record. But, then I navigate in XBMC to my SMB share to "Recorded TV" and I see the show, but if I try to play it, XBMC just clocks, and eventually kicks back an error. At that point, it also seems like my Ceton smartphone app starts having problems connecting to the Ceton server component. Again, this problem appears to only affect the box running both WMC and the XBMC client. On other XBMC clients (e.g., my MacBook Air), I can play these but have the issue described above (A).
Wow, some of my friends have some complicated media set-ups but your’s has them beat. If you get this working perfectly I recommend making a youtube video.
I know about Problem A, because I have faced it in my pvr project, although in a different context. I want to rant about Problem A.
Problem A :
When wmc is recording a show it’s using Directshow’s stream buffer engine. When the sbe creates the recorded file, if you look a the file size in the directory, it starts at around 500MB, even though the recording just started. That’s because the sbe allocates the file in 500MB chunks and fills each chunk with video data until another chunk is needed, then it grows by 500MB again. So what I think happens is that xbmc thinks it has 500MB of video data and it happily streams it over staying ahead of what is playing on the screen, but when it gets too far into the file it eventually starts pulling over the empty/garbage data, when this happens it assumes something is wrong and shuts down. When the sbe finishes the recording, the real size of the file is set, so completed files play fine.
For my pvr project, I wanted to do basically what you are doing, play the output of the sbe file directly with xbmc. Through the pvr interface in xbmc I can tell xbmc on-the-fly what the size is of the file being streamed is, so I figured No problem! – all I needed to do was determine what the actual size of the “real” data was in the recording wtv file. I scoured the internet, and looked over tons of code, I never found how to do it – and it sounds like such a simple thing! I did find that in the registry you can control the size of the chunks, but only down to a 10MB size which doesn't help anything.
I know there is definitely a way to programmatically determine the actual file size because directshow graphs can handle this recorded stream fine, so clearly they know what the actual real data size is, but I am just not knowledgeable in this stuff to have figured out the answer. I have also asked around at a couple of forums, know one knows or at least aren't talking. I gave up and used my own code for the backend of the sbe, so that I could produce a streaming file WITH THE CORRECT FRIGGING FILE SIZE.
Sorry for the rant. I am surprised Eden worked fine (there is probably a good clue there, but my scars are too fresh to investigate). I started to get into xbmc last summer and I experimented using eden to play (completed) wtv files, but I found (like a lot of other people) about 20 minutes into the wtv file the video locked up. Frodo does not have this problem.
The only thing I can say by way of solution for you is just what I have already said, transcoders based on directshow are not fooled by the sbe file size weirdness. So you could transcode to another format and play this file with xbmc, although you might very well have the same problem of xbmc not querying the increasing file size as it plays - perhaps an xbmc guru will chime in.
Lastly if there any video experts reading this who can help me, I'd be forever grateful.
Sorry, I have no idea on Problem B.
Thanks for bringing up this topic.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - Scott R - 2013-02-16
(2013-02-16, 19:34)krustyreturns Wrote: I am surprised Eden worked fine (there is probably a good clue there, but my scars are too fresh to investigate). I started to get into xbmc last summer and I experimented using eden to play (completed) wtv files, but I found (like a lot of other people) about 20 minutes into the wtv file the video locked up.I should clarify that I actually haven't attempted to play an entire .WTV recording under Eden (or Frodo, for that matter). All of my experiences that I commented on were in my "test phase" where I try these things out to see if it looks like I can end up with a workable wife-friendly solution. For our actual daily usage, we watch live TV and recorded shows using the WMC UI (in the bedroom we have the actual WMC server, and in a couple of other rooms we have XBox 360's which we use as extenders).
My quest is to have a single box with a single UI, but I'm not there yet. The XBox 360's can't play my Blu-ray .MKV files and require XBox Gold for Netflix and Hulu. My Revo 1600 nettop (ATOM/ION) in my living room can do Blu-ray .MKV and already-recorded .WTV files (in XBMC) but don't have acceptable performance within the WMC UI, so no live TV. They also can't do web-based video (e.g., Netflix) well, so I supplement that room with an Apple TV 3. Even on fully capable machines (like my bedroom server), Hulu+ within XBMC doesn't look as good to me as what I can get with the Apple TV, so I've got one of those in that room, too. Sorry, I'm going off on a tangent now.
There is a part of me thinking of trying out a different back-end (like mythTV), but WMC works very well, so I should probably just be happy with what I've got and just live with the fact that I can't have a single box/UI for all of my needs/desires.
Good luck!
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - Livin - 2013-02-20
XBMC Frodo plays WMC files (from WIndows 7) perfectly fine... I watch several a day and have been since beta. I even delete them when I'm finished, right from the XBMC 'context' menu.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - Scott R - 2013-02-20
You're watching them *while* they're still being recorded? That's what I said wasn't working. Once they've finished recording, I can play them fine, too. Under Eden, I could play them *while* they were still being recorded, but under Frodo, I can't watch them all the way through.
RE: Why not WMC as backend? - FIBO - 2013-02-20
I still wonder what I should install to watch TV on XBMC using WMC as backend?
This whole discussion became quite a blur to me. After some posts early february I thought a plugin, scrip or add-on was develloped or going to be develloped enabeling watching live TV within XBMC. And it would work like watching TV with WMC. In the last few posts I only read about watching recorded shows and setting recording timers.
Will there be or is there a add-on or script I can install to watch live TV within XBMC without running WMC itself/parallel. Just making use of the same background progamms WMC does?
Can I make a button in the main menu to start live TV, maybe with sub-buttons like EPG, Recordings, Set recording?