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WIP Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - Printable Version

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RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - Enkhil - 2014-01-17

(2014-01-17, 22:30)eiha Wrote: I've got the exact same problem with hsbs/sbs.

If I had used Half-OU for sbs or vice versa I would have know instantly cause it would be a total mess(?).

It doesn't create a mess. I just tried to display a Half-SBS file on a 1080p monitor with preferred mode set to OU. XBMC switched to OU when I started the movie and displayed it as Half-OU. This means that XBMC actually moves the halves around and scales the new image back to the original size, which means that you lose a lot of the original video information in that process.

For example, let's say you have a Half-OU file, but XBMC is set to SBS. I don't know the correct order of these processes, but I think it would go something like this:

Start with Half-OU (1920x1080)
Split top and bottom halves, place them side by side to create half height SBS (3840x540)
Scale to Half-SBS (1920x1080)

So now the Half-OU file is displayed as Half-SBS, however each half was resized from 1920x540 to 920x1080 which actually means that you lost half of the original resolution.

Think of it this way: When you display a Half-SBS file, the tv has to scale a 960x1080 picture to 1920x1080 for each eye, so each frame is half-resolution. If you convert it to Half-OU first, each frame is scaled down from 960x1080 to 960x540 first and then scaled back up to 1920x1080, so each frame is only quarter resolution.


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - eiha - 2014-01-18

(2014-01-17, 23:58)Enkhil Wrote:
(2014-01-17, 22:30)eiha Wrote: I've got the exact same problem with hsbs/sbs.

If I had used Half-OU for sbs or vice versa I would have know instantly cause it would be a total mess(?).

It doesn't create a mess. I just tried to display a Half-SBS file on a 1080p monitor with preferred mode set to OU. XBMC switched to OU when I started the movie and displayed it as Half-OU. This means that XBMC actually moves the halves around and scales the new image back to the original size, which means that you lose a lot of the original video information in that process.

For example, let's say you have a Half-OU file, but XBMC is set to SBS. I don't know the correct order of these processes, but I think it would go something like this:

Start with Half-OU (1920x1080)
Split top and bottom halves, place them side by side to create half height SBS (3840x540)
Scale to Half-SBS (1920x1080)

So now the Half-OU file is displayed as Half-SBS, however each half was resized from 1920x540 to 920x1080 which actually means that you lost half of the original resolution.

Think of it this way: When you display a Half-SBS file, the tv has to scale a 960x1080 picture to 1920x1080 for each eye, so each frame is half-resolution. If you convert it to Half-OU first, each frame is scaled down from 960x1080 to 960x540 first and then scaled back up to 1920x1080, so each frame is only quarter resolution.

Yah, you are right on that one. But that isn't the case anyway. You see, I'm currently using sbs mode on my PJ (doesn't switch automatically, but thats fine) and have selected the sbs mode in system settings. All my 3D movies are hsbs/sbs.
All good so far. Now I can see the GUI ok through 3D glasses instead of the usual "close-one-eye-to-se-one-half-of-the-screen-and-close-the other-to-see-the-other-half". Nice.

The problem is when I start a 3D movie in sbs/hsbs. The movie shows just fine, but the quality is kinda like 3D in SD. I double check the stereoscope mode; still sbs mode). I deactivate the stereoscopic mode and restart the movie like I've usually done; voila! great quality but unfortunately back to the good old crazy OSD/GUI look. Why does xbmc interfere with the movie instead of just the GUI/OSD?

I guess it could be something wrong with my Openelec nightly build


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - da-anda - 2014-01-18

XBMC is messing with the movie so that we can convert it into any output format you want (mono, anaglyph, line-interleaved, ...) and that in case the GUI only has a small video thumbnail instead of fullscreen you'll still have correct stereoscopics in the thumbnail.


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - da-anda - 2014-01-19

for everybody that had issues with video playlists, could you please check if this windows test build has correct behavior for you?
http://mirrors.xbmc.org/test-builds/win32/XBMCSetup-20140119-5015eb3-3D-fixes.exe


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - TjaLfE - 2014-01-20

Hi....

I'm running recent nightly builds. How much of this 3D support is in those nightly's?
I have some FULL TAB 3D movies i would like to playback, but i cant get them to play correctly on my TV.

I have a LG 2013 model with passive 3d. Half TAB works like a charm.

//TjaLfE


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - wgstarks - 2014-01-20

(2014-01-20, 15:36)TjaLfE Wrote: Hi....

I'm running recent nightly builds. How much of this 3D support is in those nightly's?
I have some FULL TAB 3D movies i would like to playback, but i cant get them to play correctly on my TV.

I have a LG 2013 model with passive 3d. Half TAB works like a charm.

//TjaLfE

Just to be sure, is your TV 4k?


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - TjaLfE - 2014-01-20

Nope.. it's not... no reason for FULL then?


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - wgstarks - 2014-01-20

(2014-01-20, 15:52)TjaLfE Wrote: Nope.. it's not... no reason for FULL then?

Honestly I've never tried to display Full SBS/TAB on a TV that's not 4k, so I'm not exactly sure how the signal would be handled. I do know that the resolution would be higher than what is supported by your TV. Perhaps someone with a little more experience in this could give you a better answer.


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - afedchin - 2014-01-20

(2014-01-20, 15:52)TjaLfE Wrote: Nope.. it's not... no reason for FULL then?
Yes, there is no reason for full all the more so with passive 3d.


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - Mettbrot - 2014-01-20

(2014-01-20, 16:10)afedchin Wrote:
(2014-01-20, 15:52)TjaLfE Wrote: Nope.. it's not... no reason for FULL then?
Yes, there is no reason for full all the more so with passive 3d.

Yes, but the problem presists: Which settings do I need to choose for XBMC to convert it to HalfSBS or HalfTAB to get the TV to display it correctly? (since frame packing is not suported yet)

To be honest, I find the 3D settings in XBMC very confusing. What is preferred mode for when the default behaviour for film stereo mode is "ask me"? Where can I select the 3D orientation the video file has if the auto detection fails?


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - afedchin - 2014-01-20

(2014-01-20, 16:23)Hasu0bs Wrote: Yes, but the problem presists: Which settings do I need to choose for XBMC to convert it to HalfSBS or HalfTAB to get the TV to display it correctly? (since frame packing is not suported yet)

To be honest, I find the 3D settings in XBMC very confusing. What is preferred mode for when the default behaviour for film stereo mode is "ask me"? Where can I select the 3D orientation the video file has if the auto detection fails?
For TV with passive 3D the TAB stereo mode is prefered in any way. You can set prefered mode then xbmc will be auto select this mode. If the auto detection fails you can set up correct stereo orientation at osd video settings dialog.
Image


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - da-anda - 2014-01-20

(2014-01-20, 15:36)TjaLfE Wrote: I'm running recent nightly builds. How much of this 3D support is in those nightly's?
I have some FULL TAB 3D movies i would like to playback, but i cant get them to play correctly on my TV.

I have a LG 2013 model with passive 3d. Half TAB works like a charm.
Nightlies have all in terms of 3D support we currently have. What exactly is not working and which GPU do you have? Some GPUs (especially ATI/AMD) can't decode FullSBS using hardware acceleration and you have to switch to software decoding to get them work. That's not our fault in this case but the vendors shipping borked drivers (AFAIK).


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - da-anda - 2014-01-20

(2014-01-20, 16:23)Hasu0bs Wrote: To be honest, I find the 3D settings in XBMC very confusing. What is preferred mode for when the default behaviour for film stereo mode is "ask me"? Where can I select the 3D orientation the video file has if the auto detection fails?
Suggestions to make it easier to understand (besides of adding settings descriptions which we are working on)?

The preferred mode can be defined in Settings -> System -> Video. It's there because support for stereoscopic photos might come in future and thus the preferred mode has to be in a central place not related to a specific media type.


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - Tomkun - 2014-01-21

(2014-01-20, 15:36)TjaLfE Wrote: Hi....

I'm running recent nightly builds. How much of this 3D support is in those nightly's?
I have some FULL TAB 3D movies i would like to playback, but i cant get them to play correctly on my TV.

I have a LG 2013 model with passive 3d. Half TAB works like a charm.

//TjaLfE

Can you tell us exactly what is wrong with the playback? Your description is very vague. I personally have many full TAB movies working perfectly on an LG 55" 3D passive TV. One issue I came across while making my own rips is that you need to set the aspect ratio manually using a program like MKVmerge to get it to display correctly. DVDfab doesn't set this flag and therefore XBMC assumes the video is double height.

Finally for all the people who say there is no benefit for making a full TAB movie, that'n not actually true. There are a lot of times when I prefer to watch in 2D, so a full TAB movie allows me to do that at 1080p.

(2014-01-20, 21:55)da-anda Wrote:
(2014-01-20, 16:23)Hasu0bs Wrote: To be honest, I find the 3D settings in XBMC very confusing. What is preferred mode for when the default behaviour for film stereo mode is "ask me"? Where can I select the 3D orientation the video file has if the auto detection fails?
Suggestions to make it easier to understand (besides of adding settings descriptions which we are working on)?

The preferred mode can be defined in Settings -> System -> Video. It's there because support for stereoscopic photos might come in future and thus the preferred mode has to be in a central place not related to a specific media type.

Can I make a comment/request?

I'd prefer if there were separate settings for 2D and 3D modes. I'll try to explain what I mean.
Right now, in stereoscopic mode we have a whole list of different modes, most of which I never use. In fact I use a passive TV so only ever use TAB. However, on occasion I like to play my movies in 2D. Currently I have it set to 'ask me', which displays the whole list. What I would like is to have my preferred mode set to 'TAB', but still have an option at the start of a movie that just says '2D or 3D'.

I hope that makes sense!


RE: Stereoscopic 3D support for half/full SBS, over/under, etc - nickr - 2014-01-21

It makes sense to me, but also have "other" which could lead to the list of modes - for times when a friend brings over a SBS movie.