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---- Thread: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 (/showthread.php?tid=184866)



RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - allan87 - 2013-12-28

I would be interested in seeing an objective test to back up the arguments made favouring usb3 over usb2 for this purpose. The only one I have seen did not support this view: http://openelec.tv/forum/124-raspberry-pi/57464-speed-up-rasb-pi-by-running-openelec-on-usb-stick?start=195#70107


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - mayoman - 2013-12-28

(2013-12-28, 15:27)allan87 Wrote: I would be interested in seeing an objective test to back up the arguments made favouring usb3 over usb2 for this purpose. The only one I have seen did not support this view: http://openelec.tv/forum/124-raspberry-pi/57464-speed-up-rasb-pi-by-running-openelec-on-usb-stick?start=195#70107

The biggest problem I have seen is the huge variation in USB2 sticks performance. Cost is no guarantee of speed & the published specs are not always borne out in reality. The right USB2 stick will near enough match a cheap USB3 one on the Pi, but without a proper published benchmark test how do you know until you have bought it?
Safest is a cheap USB3 stick I think - from my (admittedly very limited) experience, any price difference is not enough to be worth the hassle of trying to find the right USB2 oneSmile
There was a recent discussion on the subject here.



RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - popcornmix - 2013-12-28

(2013-12-27, 13:32)ntadej Wrote: I have a sample recording for 1080i channel that fails (fails playing live or recording).
http://tano.si/tmp/xbmc/hdsample.mkv

The sample is playing fine for me, both with a frodo and gotham build of xbmc.
I'll try with Milhouse's openelec build when I get the chance.

How are you playing the file? Directly from a network share? Or through PVR interface?


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - ntadej - 2013-12-28

PVR interface via tvheadend. I use 2013-12-20 Milhouse build.

SD channels work fine and fast, 1080i are unreliable and some don't work at all (like this one).


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - doveman2 - 2013-12-28

(2013-12-28, 11:31)tdn135 Wrote:
(2013-12-28, 05:52)allan87 Wrote:
(2013-12-27, 16:34)tuxen Wrote: But overclocking away, speed won't matter much if you use USB 2 memory sticks no, because the rely on almost the same memory technology as sdcard's. Move to a good USB 3 stick (closer to SSD technology) or a harddrive and database operations will be insanely faster, as high or higher than the numbers we see with f2fs.
Are you saying that, as a class, usb3 sticks have faster memory? If not, I don't see how there would be a benefit over USB2, as the pi' USB interface is usb2, so the faster interface would not help.
USB 3.0 sticks have much faster memory and controllers. Even in usb 2.0, they are faster then regular usb 2.0 sticks.
I noticed noticeble speedups in using xbmc using a ext4 formatted 16GB usb 3.0 Sandisk Extreme stick.

It varies quite a lot actually in my experience. I've had USB3 sticks that were no better than USB2 sticks. USB2 HDDs are generally always faster in my experience than even USB3 sticks simply because HDDs have a much higher throughput than the sticks do but of course there could be USB HDDs that are unusually slow.


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - tuxen - 2013-12-28

(2013-12-28, 05:52)allan87 Wrote:
(2013-12-27, 16:34)tuxen Wrote: But overclocking away, speed won't matter much if you use USB 2 memory sticks no, because the rely on almost the same memory technology as sdcard's. Move to a good USB 3 stick (closer to SSD technology) or a harddrive and database operations will be insanely faster, as high or higher than the numbers we see with f2fs.
Are you saying that, as a class, usb3 sticks have faster memory? If not, I don't see how there would be a benefit over USB2, as the pi' USB interface is usb2, so the faster interface would not help.

Yes much faster! It doesn't matter if your RPi interface is usb2 there's a massive difference.

(2013-12-28, 15:27)allan87 Wrote: I would be interested in seeing an objective test to back up the arguments made favouring usb3 over usb2 for this purpose. The only one I have seen did not support this view: http://openelec.tv/forum/124-raspberry-pi/57464-speed-up-rasb-pi-by-running-openelec-on-usb-stick?start=195#70107

No problem ill find you links from anandtech tomshardware, etc if you can't find them yourself.
I'm not gonna rewrite the articles but things like asyncron signaling ie. read/writes in full-duplex on USB 3 sticks instead of half-duplex ie. USB 2 memory can only write or read at the same time is a start. USB 3 can do both. It also has more memory pipelines like SSD. Anyway I'm a bad English speaking Dane so I think its better and more believable so find you the actual benchmarks.


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - Milhouse - 2013-12-28

(2013-12-28, 18:32)ntadej Wrote: PVR interface via tvheadend. I use 2013-12-20 Milhouse build.

SD channels work fine and fast, 1080i are unreliable and some don't work at all (like this one).

That sample plays fine here with my 2012 build (streamed from SMB, wired ethernet).


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - tuxen - 2013-12-28

(2013-12-28, 02:06)maratonomak Wrote:
(2013-12-27, 17:03)tuxen Wrote: How about an advancedsettings.xml for the best performance ?
Its already included in your image, look in /usr/share/xbmc/system/ this advancedsettings.xml is trimmed for the release and is loaded before the /userdata/ advancedsettings.xml file. Any changes to existing settings or adding of settings is loaded afterwards and will be appended or changed to the value set in the /userdata/ file.

Rbej has a very few extra options you probably want to set but otherwise I recommend don't create it if you do not need it, again one is already provided. Check your logfile to help see how it works.


MashUp has the option to add Tuxens advancedsetting along with Mikey1234 and 0 cache advancesetting.xml. I'm currently using Rbej's, but i've tried the other 3 as well.
I can't notice any difference . Currently I'm on Rbej's build (Frodo) using his advancesettings.xml. Just trying to improve as much as I can Smile

Thank you !

WTF sorry how did "my" 1 year old settings end up in that crap addon. Sad
Goddamn crap site (not this but where it came from)
Don't use it, its very old and not valid. And I will take action to get it removed or at least my name and any reference to it, cheeky bastards.


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - Trickname - 2013-12-28

lol

im also remember tuxen´s as.xml but i used it in xbox1 times Tongue


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - doveman2 - 2013-12-28

(2013-12-28, 18:44)tuxen Wrote:
(2013-12-28, 05:52)allan87 Wrote:
(2013-12-27, 16:34)tuxen Wrote: But overclocking away, speed won't matter much if you use USB 2 memory sticks no, because the rely on almost the same memory technology as sdcard's. Move to a good USB 3 stick (closer to SSD technology) or a harddrive and database operations will be insanely faster, as high or higher than the numbers we see with f2fs.
Are you saying that, as a class, usb3 sticks have faster memory? If not, I don't see how there would be a benefit over USB2, as the pi' USB interface is usb2, so the faster interface would not help.

Yes much faster! It doesn't matter if your RPi interface is usb2 there's a massive difference.

Right, let me share some actual results.

These are SD cards in a USB adapter tested in a PC USB2 port:

8 GB Transcend Class 6 micro SD
Image

8 GB Sandisk Class 10 SD (must have aborted before the final test, hence it shows 0.000)
Image

These are USB2 sticks tested in a PC USB2 port:

USB2 HP 16 GB
Image

USB2 Sandisk Cruzer 8 GB
Image

and these are USB3 sticks tested in a PC USB2 port:

USB3 Centon 8 GB ( USB2 port)
Image

USB3 Jetflash700 16 GB (in USB2 port)
Image

So the USB3 results (in a USB2 port) are about the same for writes as the Sandisk Class 10 SD card (in fact the SD beats the USB3 at 4k write speeds by a large margin), so clearly the idea that USB2=SD speed and USB3=SSD speed is ridiculous. The USB2 write speeds are lower than the SD speeds, so USB3 beats USB2 there but the USB2 and USB3 read speeds aren't that much different.

Unfortunately I haven't kept my old test results with my 500GB Samsung HDD in a USB2 enclosure but maybe someone who has a USB2 drive can bench it with CDM to compare with my results.


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - tuxen - 2013-12-28

Sorry.. Its not true the fact that you think you need a usb3 enclosure to speed up things on a different memory technology (harddisk) to get an improvement in speed when we are testing memory technology's on a usb2 interface says it all.

What you are saying is that windows or Linux will run just as fast on a sdcard as on a hardisk, everybody knows that is ridiculous.. Same goes with USB 3 sticks they are mildly to insanely faster yes there is a big difference between brands still I'll give you that.

But some have quadchannels, can read AND write at the same time, the controller and memory is completely different and a usb2 interface plus archlinux drivers has no trouble utilizing that (they even support SSD trim). Why do you think a harddisk is faster than sdcard if you put a operating system on it.


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - ntadej - 2013-12-28

(2013-12-28, 19:01)MilhouseVH Wrote:
(2013-12-28, 18:32)ntadej Wrote: PVR interface via tvheadend. I use 2013-12-20 Milhouse build.

SD channels work fine and fast, 1080i are unreliable and some don't work at all (like this one).

That sample plays fine here with my 2012 build (streamed from SMB, wired ethernet).

Seems a tvheadend related issue then.


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - allan87 - 2013-12-28

(2013-12-28, 19:33)tuxen Wrote: Sorry.. Its not true the fact that you think you need a usb3 enclosure to speed up things on a different memory technology (harddisk) to get an improvement in speed when we are testing memory technology's on a usb2 interface says it all.

What you are saying is that windows or Linux will run just as fast on a USB 2 stick as on a USB 2 harddrive, everybody knows that is ridiculous..
He didn't say that. He just said that he benchmarked various scenarios (including 2 different USB 3.0 sticks), and his benchmarks did not support the contention that using a USB 3.0 stick on the pi's USB 2.0 interface will yield faster read/write times than a fast SD card.


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - tuxen - 2013-12-28

Edit: sorry I don't want to turn this thread of track because of something well known and tried.


(2013-12-28, 20:12)allan87 Wrote:
(2013-12-28, 19:33)tuxen Wrote: Sorry.. Its not true the fact that you think you need a usb3 enclosure to speed up things on a different memory technology (harddisk) to get an improvement in speed when we are testing memory technology's on a usb2 interface says it all.

What you are saying is that windows or Linux will run just as fast on a USB 2 stick as on a USB 2 harddrive, everybody knows that is ridiculous..
He didn't say that. He just said that he benchmarked various scenarios (including 2 different USB 3.0 sticks), and his benchmarks did not support the contention that using a USB 3.0 stick on the pi's USB 2.0 interface will yield faster read/write times than a fast SD card.

I was a little harsh.. Sorry I apologize. We where talking ext4 write times vs f2fs not fat32..


RE: OpenELEC Testbuilds for RaspberryPi Part 2 - Doktor-X - 2013-12-28

i'm building from source on ubuntu 12.04 and getting "deprecated packageformat, please convert soon" error on most package

i have
g++ nasm flex bison gawk gperf autoconf automake m4 cvs libtool byacc texinfo gettext zlib1g-dev libncurses5-dev git-core build-essential xsltproc libexpat1-dev zip autopoint xfonts-utils libxml-parser-perl openjdk-6-jre openjdk-7-jre


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