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RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - Stereodude - 2015-01-31

(2015-01-31, 16:51)noggin Wrote: IVTC is a form of de-interlacing isn't it? (You are taking an interlaced signal and removing the interlace)

You are taking an interlaced signal, detecting the redundant field, and de-interlacing based on the position of this redundant field (i.e. weaving the pairs of non-redundant fields and then adding a 3:2 frame cadence again in most cases, so you can cope with mixed 3:2, 2:2 and native interlaced content in the same stream?)
It's not deinterlacing in the same sense as all the other algorithms, bob, weave, motion adaptive, etc. It perfectly recovers progressive frames at a different frame rate than the interlaced video by removing the telecine pattern. It doesn't discard spatial or temporal resolution or make decisions on what's interlacing and what's detail.


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - poofyhairguy - 2015-01-31

(2015-01-31, 16:17)noggin Wrote: Nope again - we get Motion Compensative in VAAPI (which is better than Motion Adaptive), and I think Temporal / Spatial VDPAU is also better than MA.

Wow, I didn't know MC worked with VAAPI. It is amazing the progress made on that. Good info thanks.

Do you know if there are any limitations for the VAAPI implementation? Will it deinterlace VC1 like VDPAU will? Thank you in advance.


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - poofyhairguy - 2015-01-31

(2015-01-31, 17:05)popcornmix Wrote: For DVD resolution the Pi will do a motion adaptive deinterlace similar to YADIF.
For higher resolutions (e.g. 1080i) it will do bob. Both will optionally double framerate.

That explains the conflicting info of what it can do- it is defined by resolution.

Great info, thanks!


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - noggin - 2015-01-31

(2015-01-31, 17:29)Stereodude Wrote:
(2015-01-31, 16:51)noggin Wrote: IVTC is a form of de-interlacing isn't it? (You are taking an interlaced signal and removing the interlace)

You are taking an interlaced signal, detecting the redundant field, and de-interlacing based on the position of this redundant field (i.e. weaving the pairs of non-redundant fields and then adding a 3:2 frame cadence again in most cases, so you can cope with mixed 3:2, 2:2 and native interlaced content in the same stream?)
It's not deinterlacing in the same sense as all the other algorithms, bob, weave, motion adaptive, etc.
It's pretty much identical to 2:2 without the discarded fields though isn't it? Which is just a Weave de-interlace (in many cases chosen when no intra-frame motion between field-pairs is detected) 2:2 Weave of 30p/25p in 60i/50i is also lossless.

3:2 IVTC (a term I hate - as you aren't reversing a telecine's operation - that would be putting video back onto film, and in many cases these days the 3:2 hasn't been introduced by a telecine) has to be part of a de-interlacing algorithm in most situations - as the 3:2 interlace cadence has to be detected (you can't rely on field-repeat flags in H264/MPEG2 streams) - so it is a decision taken by the de-interlacer whether to use 3:2 removal or not.

Quote:It perfectly recovers progressive frames at a different frame rate than the interlaced video by removing the telecine pattern. It doesn't discard spatial or temporal resolution or make decisions on what's interlacing and what's detail.

However when used real-time (as opposed to in file conversion) 3:2 IVTC, whilst it detects the duplicate fields and cleanly recreates the 24p sequence, it then usually re-inserts the 3:2 cadence in the progressive domain to ensure a constant frame rate sequence (otherwise your TV would be re-syncing on shot changes on shows like Letterman as they cut between 60i studio de-interlaced to 60p and a film clip containing 3:2 24p in 60i deinterlaced to 24p rather than 60p - though the 60p will be 3:2 without rogue mixed-field frames)

But the de-interlacer has totake the decision to use 3:2, and also has to take the decision when not to, which can mean some frames are temporarily incorrectly deinterlaced.


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - noggin - 2015-01-31

(2015-01-31, 18:45)poofyhairguy Wrote:
(2015-01-31, 16:17)noggin Wrote: Nope again - we get Motion Compensative in VAAPI (which is better than Motion Adaptive), and I think Temporal / Spatial VDPAU is also better than MA.

Wow, I didn't know MC worked with VAAPI. It is amazing the progress made on that. Good info thanks.
Haswell currently supports MCDI, MADI and Bob in VAAPI. Older GPUs and Baytrail are less well supported.

Quote:Do you know if there are any limitations for the VAAPI implementation? Will it deinterlace VC1 like VDPAU will? Thank you in advance.

I think the long-standing VAAPI problem which meant no VAAPI decoding (let alone deinterlacing) of VC-1 interlaced content may finally be closer to resolution?

183448 (thread)


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - poofyhairguy - 2015-01-31

(2015-01-31, 18:55)noggin Wrote: I think the long-standing VAAPI problem which meant no VAAPI decoding (let alone deinterlacing) of VC-1 interlaced content may finally be closer to resolution?

183448 (thread)

Awesome! Something to look to in the next version.


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - Stereodude - 2015-01-31

(2015-01-31, 18:52)noggin Wrote: However when used real-time (as opposed to in file conversion) 3:2 IVTC, whilst it detects the duplicate fields and cleanly recreates the 24p sequence, it then usually re-inserts the 3:2 cadence in the progressive domain to ensure a constant frame rate sequence (otherwise your TV would be re-syncing on shot changes on shows like Letterman as they cut between 60i studio de-interlaced to 60p and a film clip containing 3:2 24p in 60i deinterlaced to 24p rather than 60p - though the 60p will be 3:2 without rogue mixed-field frames)

But the de-interlacer has totake the decision to use 3:2, and also has to take the decision when not to, which can mean some frames are temporarily incorrectly deinterlaced.
madVR does it very well. You force the content type to film and it will apply the IVTC with the detected pattern. I use it on shows that I know were shot on film (which is most hour long fiction primetime shows). Something like a talk show I would just deinterlace.

Kodi's lack of 3:2 telecine removal & playing it back at p24 from i60 content is one of the reasons why it will never be my main HTPC playback software regardless of how good the UI and integration is. I'm sticking with MPC-HC + madVR.


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - noggin - 2015-01-31

(2015-01-31, 20:24)Stereodude Wrote:
(2015-01-31, 18:52)noggin Wrote: However when used real-time (as opposed to in file conversion) 3:2 IVTC, whilst it detects the duplicate fields and cleanly recreates the 24p sequence, it then usually re-inserts the 3:2 cadence in the progressive domain to ensure a constant frame rate sequence (otherwise your TV would be re-syncing on shot changes on shows like Letterman as they cut between 60i studio de-interlaced to 60p and a film clip containing 3:2 24p in 60i deinterlaced to 24p rather than 60p - though the 60p will be 3:2 without rogue mixed-field frames)

But the de-interlacer has totake the decision to use 3:2, and also has to take the decision when not to, which can mean some frames are temporarily incorrectly deinterlaced.
madVR does it very well. You force the content type to film and it will apply the IVTC with the detected pattern. I use it on shows that I know were shot on film (which is most hour long fiction primetime shows). Something like a talk show I would just deinterlace.

Kodi's lack of 3:2 telecine removal & playing it back at p24 from i60 content is one of the reasons why it will never be my main HTPC playback software regardless of how good the UI and integration is. I'm sticking with MPC-HC + madVR.

So you are outputting the 60i 3:2 24p stuff at 24p? Do you have to manually select 23.976Hz refresh - or does MPC-HC detect the cadence and then change the refresh rate? I use Kodi a lot for watching Live TV and I don't think that approach would work for me, but i'ts not a major issue for me as I live in 50Hz land - where we, luckily, have 2:2 25p, so no need to change output refresh rate based on content.


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - Stereodude - 2015-01-31

(2015-01-31, 21:33)noggin Wrote: So you are outputting the 60i 3:2 24p stuff at 24p?
Well, 23.976Hz... But yes.

Quote:Do you have to manually select 23.976Hz refresh - or does MPC-HC detect the cadence and then change the refresh rate?
madVR changes the refresh rate to 23.976Hz because forced film mode is turned on. It's automatic when I start playing a file. If I'm playing something that's video I manually change the mode to video with a keyboard shortcut and it will change back to 59.94Hz and deinterlace. madVR also has 2:2 capability, not just 3:2, but I don't have any i50 content, so I don't know how that all works. Another other nice thing is madVR has 6:4 handling capability as well so it can recover p24 from 720p60 also. It won't automatically change to 23.976Hz when the source is 720p60. For progressive content (like H.264 encodes in .mkv) madVR will change the refresh rate to the closest match the TV has to the framerate of the file (you have to tell it what modes it can switch to).

Quote:I use Kodi a lot for watching Live TV and I don't think that approach would work for me, but i'ts not a major issue for me as I live in 50Hz land - where we, luckily, have 2:2 25p, so no need to change output refresh rate based on content.
Keep in mind none of this is for live TV. I record nearly all my OTA HD via computer (HDHomerun + nPVR), edit out the commercials, and then watch it later using MPC-HC + madVR. For live TV like the news I use the tuner in the Motorola DVR from the local cable company and let the TV deinterlace or IVTC it.


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - noggin - 2015-01-31

(2015-01-31, 22:01)Stereodude Wrote: Keep in mind none of this is for live TV. I record nearly all my OTA HD via computer (HDHomerun + nPVR), edit out the commercials, and then watch it later using MPC-HC + madVR. For live TV like the news I use the tuner in the Motorola DVR from the local cable company and let the TV deinterlace or IVTC it.
I'm in the UK - most of my watching is on the BBC. So no commercials ;-)

AIUI 2:2 survives far better than 3:2 when de-interlaced by MCDI de-interlacers.


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - wrxtasy - 2015-02-01

(2015-01-31, 17:05)popcornmix Wrote: For DVD resolution the Pi will do a motion adaptive deinterlace similar to YADIF.
For higher resolutions (e.g. 1080i) it will do bob. Both will optionally double framerate.
Cheers, a good informative thread this one !


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - snorkel - 2015-02-06

i installed the latest nightly build of Kodi that has the deinterlace option and it's a world of difference.
The only problem is there are tons of bugs with the PVR client in the nightlies.


RE: Fire TV and Mpeg2 tweaks - wrxtasy - 2015-02-07

Is this the Amazon Fire TV or the stick ?

What deinterlace option work with SD and then 1080i content ?

Bob / Deinterlace(half) / Deinterlace ?

More info and detail would help fellow users reading Smile