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--- Thread: WIP Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread (/showthread.php?tid=218274)



RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - _Shorty - 2015-12-13

Just FYI, if you're using any limited mode, whether it is YCbCr or RGB-limited, you are going to have to put the video through a 16-235 -> 0-255 -> 16-235 round trip that negatively impacts quality. As long as everything is working correctly (i.e. no flicker issue) it is better to use RGB full, and then do one of two things.

If you only use Kodi and/or don't care about the desktop being a little off then you turn on the limited range setting in Kodi and calibrate the TV. Kodi will be on pass-through for the video content so it will come though unchanged, but because you're calibrated for 16-235 the desktop won't look right. But since this is a Kodi-only usage scenario you won't care about that. The point here is that you'll be getting 16-235 properly in the only app you use.

If you do use apps other than Kodi, maybe gaming or who knows what else, then you leave the limited range setting in Kodi turned off and calibrate the TV that way. Kodi will expand the 16-235 video to fill the 0-255 range so video will look right and so will the desktop. The only downside, if it even is one, is that you'll lose blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white as 0-15 and 236-255 are truncated. Since video is produced to fit into 16-235 this shouldn't be much of an issue, though.

But, if your hardware is exhibiting issues in anything but that one mode, then obviously you're stuck using that one mode. Which means you're going to have to live with the change in quality that results from the round-trip conversion. Which could also mean deciding whether or not you want to live with it or spend a few bucks on another card from the other vendor that doesn't show that same problem.


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - bossanova808 - 2015-12-14

@ _Shorty - no issues spending the $s, but I have small fanless build...so the issue is space. Not sure I can wedge an nvidia in there without it spontaneously combusting Smile

If I can't get it sorted I might jsut skip 16 and wait until some decent HEVC hardware is around and do a whole platform upgrade around the time of Kodi 17 (to e.g. a post skylake NUC). There's not a huge pull in V16 in terms of new features, for me perosnally so I can stick with something that works well until later, I guess.

I've raised it, though, as there's still a lot of Win/AMD users out there and they're going to hit issues with this new version. YCbCr is the AMD default and every time you re-install AMD drivers it resets to this for tv outputs for compatibility reasons. So ideally (even if it's with some banding) - correct levels with YCbCr would be possible.

The flicker issue is harder to diagnose/deal with. It's basically intermittent re-syncing events going on - i.e. the tv/projector drops the signals and then re-sync. But it's completely repeatable unfortunately Sad I will get some debug logs of that too with any luck but it's a crazy busy time of year so I might not be able to get to it before the 23rd or so when I break for the year.

Hopefully the comprehensive logs/info I provieded a few posts back is enough yo get @afdechin going with a possible fix!


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - _Shorty - 2015-12-14

FYI, the geforce 960 and 950 cards already do full HEVC decoding of the main and main 10 profiles. I haven't looked/shopped for those cards so I don't know if anyone is making a fanless one yet.


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - bossanova808 - 2015-12-14

@_Shorty - we're getting off topic but there are things like - http://www.quietpc.com/asus-strix-gtx950-dc2oc-2gd5

Wouldn't fit in my mini itx streacom FC8. but I have one like that (but a 750) in my desktop and it works a treat - fan only ever noticeably comes on if I am gaming (rare!).

But if Intel soon have an HEVC 10 bit solution in a NUC form factor I am sold for my lounge room really - lately all that fritsch/fernetmenta work seems very pro intel and solid . There's even passive cooling options for those, but in my new lounge I am further from the player so very much doubt I'd even hear the normal NUC fan. The NUCs are super reliable with remotes and on/off etc as well (I have two 2820s for spare room/travel scenarios - they're great!)....so all in all, I think those are looking positive. Would ideally persist with this AMD box until then, though, and ideally with Jarvis and correct levels on it.


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - Ed76 - 2015-12-14

thanks guys,
ok, rgb is in any case the "right setting". best method is full rgb in catalyst + limited in application (if color room of tv is limited), 2nd best option is studio rgb within driver (works for all apps). thanks for clarify!

i just tested these settings but this definitely not work as it should (tested with that flashing lights video). because my hardware is nearly the same like bossanovas i think the culprint is driver (i use last whql 15.7.1) and not kodi. i will test crimson next weekend befor posting logs here. there is one thing i am not sure if i understand this correctly:

in catalyst there is setting "pixel format" and another setting "color room". if you uncheck "color room" that means catalyst chooses automaticaly the "right" color room depending on choosen pixel format? if yes, that means setting combination "full rgb + force limited color room" does exactly the same like combination "studio rgb + uncheck color room"? is this right?

edit: i am not sure if my observations really not fit to observations of bossanova. the difference is i need limited for tv and bossanava "full", right?. ok, one thing i noticed was if i choose "full rgb" and set kodi to limited, the kodi gui turns to the "right" color but not the video (cant see anyone of that flashing lights). exactly the same with ycbr 4:4:4 (full) + limited in kodi.


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - Ed76 - 2015-12-16

just tested a little more. i keep the driver catalyst 15.7.1 and installed kodi 15.2dx9 in portable mode. then i tested color room with kodi 15.2dx9, 15.2dx11 + dxva on, 15.2 + dxva2 turned off + renderer software. it seems kodis internal color room limiter is broken:

catalyst setting: full rgb
kodi setting: limited color room

results:

kodi15.2 dx9: gui + video color room ok.

kodi15.2 dx11 + dxva2 turned off + renderer software: gui + video color room ok, debug log (if needed):
http://pastebin.com/QYZhVVNg

kodi15.2 dx11 + dxva on: gui ok, video not ok. debug log: http://pastebin.com/AXywxV1G

hope this will help you.



another thing: because i use amazon prime with a external player i need a driver setting that delivers for all player a good picture. as some people say here that should be "studio rgb" (for limited tv). if i activate "studio rgb" desktop, kodi gui has right colors, videos have wrong colors. for right color room for videos you have to manually limit the color room in catalysts video options. i use a catalyst driver, but with the new crimson drivers there is no setting to limit the color room for videos, you can only choose pixelformat. that means you will not be able to get the right settings to get the right color room for a limited tv without hack the registry? thats very strange!


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - afedchin - 2015-12-17

(2015-12-16, 21:44)Ed76 Wrote: kodi15.2 dx11 + dxva on: gui ok, video not ok. debug log: http://pastebin.com/AXywxV1G
Please describe as much as possible what's wrong with video?


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - Ed76 - 2015-12-17

(2015-12-17, 15:52)afedchin Wrote:
(2015-12-16, 21:44)Ed76 Wrote: kodi15.2 dx11 + dxva on: gui ok, video not ok. debug log: http://pastebin.com/AXywxV1G
Please describe as much as possible what's wrong with video?

my tv needs limited color room. to test color room i use this "black clipping/flashing lights" testvideo. if i can see the flashing lights the color room is ok, means "limited". is the screen completly black and i cant see the flashing light, the color room is wrong (0-255). as i describet i choose full rgb (0-255) in driver. now the screen is to dark. i start kodi. gui is to dark. i choose limited color room within kodi, gui gets brighter and looks good/right to me. but if i start the video, i cant see the flashing lights (="video not ok"). that means video color room is not limited as it should be. if i turn of dxva2 and use software rendering i can see the flashing lights (=limited color room = "video ok").


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - _Shorty - 2015-12-18

I'm confused. Why does it seem as though some of the devs are completely unaware of the difference between full range (0-255) and limited range (16-235) and how video looks when the proper one isn't being used? If you are calibrated for black == 0 and you play something using software that is using black == 16 it is *incredibly* obvious that something is wrong. The "black" you are seeing in that case is a very noticeable grey that is nowhere near your calibrated black. It is impossible to mistake it for anything else, as the grey you are seeing is much brighter than the black you should be seeing. We are being asked questions about our systems, and our drivers, all kinds of details that are practically irrelevant when the problem is clearly 0-255 / 16-235 not being handled properly in Kodi itself.

Kodi v16 / DX11 output does not have the correct output regarding this dynamic range. Plain and simple. I thought this was already established and was in fact a known issue that needed to be fixed. Why are we being asked questions as if this were a new and unknown issue with an unknown cause?


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - Martijn - 2015-12-18

(2015-12-18, 00:07)_Shorty Wrote: We are being asked questions about our systems, and our drivers, all kinds of details that are practically irrelevant when the problem is clearly 0-255 / 16-235 not being handled properly in Kodi itself.

It is absolutely relevant! My Intel system works awesome, my one nvidia works awesome and the other nvidia doesn't. Get the picture on how system and drivers are relevant?


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - bossanova808 - 2015-12-18

@afdechin - As requested I provided comprehensive notes and logs above, did you get a chance to review these? (2184818 (post))


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - afedchin - 2015-12-18

(2015-12-18, 00:07)_Shorty Wrote: I'm confused. Why does it seem as though some of the devs are completely unaware of the difference between full range (0-255) and limited range (16-235) and how video looks when the proper one isn't being used? If you are calibrated for black == 0 and you play something using software that is using black == 16 it is *incredibly* obvious that something is wrong. The "black" you are seeing in that case is a very noticeable grey that is nowhere near your calibrated black. It is impossible to mistake it for anything else, as the grey you are seeing is much brighter than the black you should be seeing. We are being asked questions about our systems, and our drivers, all kinds of details that are practically irrelevant when the problem is clearly 0-255 / 16-235 not being handled properly in Kodi itself.

Kodi v16 / DX11 output does not have the correct output regarding this dynamic range. Plain and simple. I thought this was already established and was in fact a known issue that needed to be fixed. Why are we being asked questions as if this were a new and unknown issue with an unknown cause?
If this "Plain and simple" then just fix it by yourself, prepare a PR and we will merge it. Is is ok for you?
If I ask more details it means I need this. If you don't want to help, just do not post in this thread.

@bossanova808
I need to collect more details for different hardware. I don't wanna fix this for one vendor and break for others.


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - Ed76 - 2015-12-18

if it helps you or bossanova: if i set limited color room in driver (ycbcr or rgb) and full color room in kodi the color room in kodi gui and video is ok. at the moment i use rgb limited and i dont have this flickering describet by bossanova. maybe because i use a different driver?


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - crown08 - 2015-12-18

Good afternoon,

I have a crash on startup "unable to create GUI" with this test version. I post other problem with Jarvis beta too. Whne I use only one card Kodi works but with AMD dual graphics active don't work.

only crash with DX11 version, with normal Isengard work well

Windows 10 64-Bit
AMD dual graphics activate with AMD Radeon HD 8650D + R7 240
Last AMD drivers Catalyst Software Suite 15.7.1

My Debug log

Dmp files:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qs35wdly0ax5g9f/xbmc_crashlog-15.2%20Git_20151112-1c80995-20151218-164350.dmp?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbvhq1egz42b40e/xbmc_crashlog-15.2%20Git_20151112-1c80995-20151218-164347.dmp?dl=0

Thanks


RE: Windows DirectX 11 upgrade test thread - Martijn - 2015-12-18

@afedchin
Using your dxva_color_range branch

NVIDIA GTX275 Win10
http://pastebin.com/tFBKn0nG
Colours are way off (black levels)

NVDIA FTX970M
http://pastebin.com/gWQeBASP
Colours are okay

Intel HD Graphics 4600
http://pastebin.com/UZ20bd85
Colours are okay

Intel Iris Pro 5200
http://pastebin.com/0iEteUkJ
Colours are okay