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Kodi Media Player Options with 3D MVC & HD Audio - Printable Version

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RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - noggin - 2016-03-30

I think we're now at crossed purposes.

I was talking about Core-based Celerons and Pentiums (Haswell **EDIT Broadwell may do **) not (officially) supporting 3D MVC + Frame Packed Output in Windows, whereas Bay Trail Celerons (N2820 etc.) do.

The discussion was then whether the limitation on the Core-series was 3D MVC decode or 3D Frame Packed output, or both. Linux is a different kettle of fish, as there is no 3D MVC decode on Intel on Linux at all, even on the platforms that do support it fully in Windows (Core i, N2820 etc.)


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - wizziwig - 2016-03-31

(2016-03-30, 23:37)noggin Wrote: I think we're now at crossed purposes.

I was talking about Core-based Celerons and Pentiums (Haswell **EDIT Broadwell may do **) not (officially) supporting 3D MVC + Frame Packed Output in Windows, whereas Bay Trail Celerons (N2820 etc.) do.

The discussion was then whether the limitation on the Core-series was 3D MVC decode or 3D Frame Packed output, or both. Linux is a different kettle of fish, as there is no 3D MVC decode on Intel on Linux at all, even on the platforms that do support it fully in Windows (Core i, N2820 etc.)

In Windows, you can't set a FP 3D video mode on a Haswell Celeron/Pentium. The purpose of my test was to prove that the hardware supports it in Linux.

As for H.264 MVC decoding... I didn't test that either in Windows or Linux but I would be shocked if it didn't work in Windows. The decoder is a completely separate part of the GPU and is common on all their Haswell chips. If I ever get some free time, I might quickly test it in Windows. Testing in Linux takes too much of my time because I'm mostly a Windows and game console developer. Everything I've read says MVC decoding is supported by Intel in Linux. See this old Intel update from summer 2014. Intel's expensive Media SDK for Linux has nothing to do with this. People are just confused because the current Windows Kodi MVC support is based on this Intel Media SDK instead of using a common API to handle the decoding. You should be able to do it with VAAPI alone in Linux.

I think the reason 3D BD playback fails in players like PowerDVD is because they can't detect the FP HDMI mode on these Haswell chips. Not because of MVC decoding. Regardless, in Windows, MVC decoding could always be done in software (using Intel Media SDK decoder) but is useless without the proper video mode being available.


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - hdmkv - 2016-03-31

(2016-03-31, 01:49)wizziwig Wrote: You should be able to do it with VAAPI alone in Linux.
Hmm, just PM'd fritsch to comment here. The thought of getting MVC support in Linux/OpenELEC is beyond intriguing.


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - fritsch - 2016-03-31

Quote:vainfo: VA-API version: 0.38 (libva 1.6.3.pre1)
vainfo: Driver version: Intel i965 driver for Intel® Haswell Mobile - 1.6.3.pre1 (1.6.1-84-ga7803c0)
vainfo: Supported profile and entrypoints
VAProfileMPEG2Simple : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileMPEG2Simple : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileMPEG2Main : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileMPEG2Main : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264ConstrainedBaseline: VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264ConstrainedBaseline: VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264Main : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264Main : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264High : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264High : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileVC1Simple : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileVC1Main : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileVC1Advanced : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileNone : VAEntrypointVideoProc
VAProfileJPEGBaseline : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileVP9Profile0 : VAEntrypointVLD

^^ figure what is missing and why we have all this discussion here.


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - movie78 - 2016-03-31

(2016-03-31, 02:15)fritsch Wrote:
Quote:vainfo: VA-API version: 0.38 (libva 1.6.3.pre1)
vainfo: Driver version: Intel i965 driver for Intel® Haswell Mobile - 1.6.3.pre1 (1.6.1-84-ga7803c0)
vainfo: Supported profile and entrypoints
VAProfileMPEG2Simple : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileMPEG2Simple : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileMPEG2Main : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileMPEG2Main : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264ConstrainedBaseline: VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264ConstrainedBaseline: VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264Main : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264Main : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264High : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264High : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileVC1Simple : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileVC1Main : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileVC1Advanced : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileNone : VAEntrypointVideoProc
VAProfileJPEGBaseline : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileVP9Profile0 : VAEntrypointVLD

^^ figure what is missing and why we have all this discussion here.

What!!!


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - Mylo75 - 2016-03-31

(2016-03-31, 02:15)fritsch Wrote:
Quote:vainfo: VA-API version: 0.38 (libva 1.6.3.pre1)
vainfo: Driver version: Intel i965 driver for Intel® Haswell Mobile - 1.6.3.pre1 (1.6.1-84-ga7803c0)
vainfo: Supported profile and entrypoints
VAProfileMPEG2Simple : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileMPEG2Simple : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileMPEG2Main : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileMPEG2Main : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264ConstrainedBaseline: VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264ConstrainedBaseline: VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264Main : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264Main : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264High : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264High : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileVC1Simple : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileVC1Main : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileVC1Advanced : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileNone : VAEntrypointVideoProc
VAProfileJPEGBaseline : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileVP9Profile0 : VAEntrypointVLD

^^ figure what is missing and why we have all this discussion here.

MVC?


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - hdmkv - 2016-03-31

I have no idea what it means, but guessing these lines?

Code:
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264MultiviewHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointVLD
VAProfileH264StereoHigh : VAEntrypointEncSlice



RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - 3DBuff - 2016-03-31

I know picking the best hardware at the lowest price is the at the top of this thread but I like to share my findings with you regarding 3D active glasses.

I managed to test shutter speed on my Epson and no name active 3D glasses. I used optical tachometer with ability to capture frequency from 0.017 Hz (1 per min) to over 1.67KHz (99,999 per min).

Both sets of glasses are operating at the same speed 60Hz driven by projector RF transmitter when display is at 24 and 60 fps.
When display is switched to 23.97 and 59.94 I get 59.933Hz on both glasses. The readings are pretty consistent.

This would explain why when watching 24 fps video material in 3D with active glasses there is jitter present like the glasses were out of sync. This is probably more noticeable then the flicker itself from 60 Hz shutters in the glasses. I'ts not too bad when frame interpolation is to the max allowing glasses to synchronize on any high frequency regenerated frames.


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - wesk05 - 2016-04-01

(2016-03-31, 23:08)3DBuff Wrote: I managed to test shutter speed on my Epson and no name active 3D glasses. I used optical tachometer with ability to capture frequency from 0.017 Hz (1 per min) to over 1.67KHz (99,999 per min).
I'm curious, how exactly did you do this?


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - couto27 - 2016-04-01

Ive had a epson before and almost all models use their 480HZ refresh rate technology for 3D

3D content is noticeably bright thanks to Epson’s luminance enhancement technology. By doubling the refresh rate from 240Hz to 480Hz in 3D, crosstalk effect is dramatically reduced, meaning the blackout period between left and right eye images is cut down.

Image

All 3D glasses are not built the same way, some have shutter speed from 96-120Hz, while others are 96-240Hz.

My guess is your no name glasses aren't appropriate for your epson.


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - 3DBuff - 2016-04-01

Yes this is true, we hear this marketing stuff all the time about screen refresh rate 120Hz, 240Hz and Epson talking abut "Bright 3D Drive Technology doubles the image refresh rate from 240 Hz to 480 Hz". It is very impressive but how it does really work and what the true frequency of the glasses is compared to fancy panel drive speed?

I had a chance to test Samsung TV with 3D active glasses one of the top models at the store with their demo disk. The display had this out of sync. jitter effect with active galsses. I wasn't quite sure if the settings were correct for this TV or this was limitation of the 3D active glasses.

Right now with the testing on my Epson projector I am convinced that all 3D active glasses for TVs and projectors are operating at 60Hz. This is independent from manufacture and design features brand names or not. If you put 3D RF glasses on and turn away from the projector or TV screen and look at the window day light. Move you head and eyes around or your hand against the window. You will see strong flicker a lot slower then 240Hz or even 120Hz. Human eye can notice flicker up to around 75Hz. The flicker of the glasses (try one eye only) does look like a flicker from old 60Hz CRT type of displays.

The image from couto27 probably some marketing material from Epson confirms that glasses are operating at 60Hz.
For simplicity we pick upper line 240Hz Drive. Please look at the starting upper point of the bright pink field marked as 1 Right. This will be the first time when the right eye gets the light. Shutter stays fully open for 1/240sec as per diagram and closes for phase change (right to left) another 1/240sec and then stays closed for 2 more cycles when the left eye gets the light and phase change again. By the time we get back to right eye fully open it will take four cycles of 1/240s. The complete cycle for one eye is 4 times longer then then the panel drive. 4 times of 1/240sec is 1/60sec equals 60Hz! Lens on one eye stays closed for 3 cycles of 1/240sec and open for 1/240sec (3 times longer closed then open). That makes those glasses very dark when activated.

Image

When looking at 24fps video (North American movies) with the example above we will have 10 identical snapshots displayed by the screen using 240Hz panel drive and glasses showing 3 snapshots of identical frame and 2 snapshots of the next frame. Pushing the panel drive timing to 480Hz shortens the time when both eyes are blocked for left/right phase change but the cycle of glasses from right eye fully open to the next time right eye is fully open takes 8 cycles of 1/480sec! This is back to 60Hz per eye again!

The gasses operate opposite from left to right. 2 and 3 shots of consecutive frames are not at the same time for both eyes. This is probably more like 1 to 2 shots of the same frame per eye since the glasses are open for short period of time.
It's not as bad as it sounds. Most people don't see this as a problem. The reality is that activating good frame interpolation on the TV or projector removes 2:3 pull down effect generated by the glasses. Additional frames from electronic interpolation will be in sync. with the glasses.

The rating of the glasses up to 240Hz is probably referred as the ability of glasses to switch from fully open to fully closed. The faster the glasses the shorter the time of switching from fully open to fully closed eliminating ghosting etc. but the drive frequency for the for full cycle per eye would be still 60Hz.

Please correct me here if I'm wrong and provide some data.

I didn't take picture from my tachometer set up but if you guys insist I'll set it up again and post it here.
Tachometer is used for measuring of linear and rotary speeds. It also has optical sensor and reflective tape for measuring speed of rotating disks in RPM. I had this idea to point the sensor through one lens of 3D glasses with the reflecting tape on the other side. When glasses were active and synchronized with projector I got 3600 RPM as pulses per minute. This is 60 complete on/off cycles per second = 60Hz with slight variation for 23.976 fps.


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - couto27 - 2016-04-01

@3DBuff

Take a look at article on post #1204 from blu-ray forum.


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - couto27 - 2016-04-01

In another subject the hdtvtest.co.uk review the LG OLED65G6P HDR (US model) and they love the Passive 3D in 4K on this LG OLED.

Quote:3D
After viewing 3D content on the LG 65G6, we came away with the impression that TV makers launched Stereoscopic display in the home five years too early. The quality of the quintessential Avatar on the 4K OLED TV was amazing, to the extent that we felt it was at least as impressive as HDR video, in its own way. The 3D quality presented by the OLED65G6P is a far cry from the off-color, resolution-compromised, dim, murky, and (in the case of plasma) noisy 3D we witnessed on so many LED LCD and Plasma displays during the rush to market that occurred at the end of the 2010s. The best 3-D images give the quality of 2D ones, but with added depth. We saw almost no crosstalk during the tests, and the use of the passive 3D system allowed for a very comfortable, flicker-free tri-dimensional experience. The UHD resolution panel also avoided the obvious “black lines” and resolution loss that 1080p resolution passive 3D TVs suffered from.
If you don’t care for 3D, take a look at it on one of these displays. You may change your mind, although due to the bungled roll-out of the technology, it may be too late to change opinions.



RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - 3DBuff - 2016-04-02

Good article, but it doesn't explain or test speed of the glasses only points out the ability.

"With a 480 Hz refresh rate in 3D mode, each eye is getting 240 frame flashes per second. There’s just no time for flicker to exist, so eye strain should be eliminated."

This does not prove that glasses are flashing at 240Hz per eye. It talks about the screen flashes. Glasses are open or closed for a lot longer. Check your own diagram above.

I ordered high speed photo sensor from the Ebay. I found article on the Net where this sensor was used to test flickering of LED lights. Hopefully it will take less then 2 months to get it. With this I can double check the speed of shutters in Epson glasses in case the tachometer was fulled by some polarizing effect.


RE: Kodi Player Options with MVC/frame-packed 3D & HD Audio - couto27 - 2016-04-02

The epson glasses are sold has 240hz/480hz refresh rate, could be marketing or not.

Image


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