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+--- Thread: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement (/showthread.php?tid=259387)
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - DixieDean - 2016-02-12
Take out Python and require add-ons to be binary?
I know you guys have discussed it before and I'm not sure of the reasons this isn't pursued.
I would say that would take out, in one move, the vast majority of pirate addons and these wizard/build makers.
The reason being, these people are not really developers and Python allows them to copy and paste off each other in a never-ending spiral of shite code.
Just a thought. whilst drinking my morning coffee...
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - Razze - 2016-02-12
(2016-02-12, 05:00)Justloco Wrote: Why dont you guys go after the guys on Ebay?
Who said that we don't?
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - Ned Scott - 2016-02-12
(2016-02-12, 04:14)getochkn Wrote: 1. What is pirate content to one person is legal to another in their country, so blocking 3rd party addons, for who, only US downloaders?
Blocking add-ons will never be an option, anywhere. Also, the Kodi project will never block pirated content. Yes, that's right, you as a user has a right to choose what you want to watch in Kodi. If you want to pirate movies, great. I applaud that. Screw the movie studios. However, that's you, the user, making that choice. Kodi is only a video player. Your TV is only a TV. The Kodi project isn't going to involve itself in politics.
Quote:2. Look how XBMC started. You needed a MODDED XBox to install it. Yes, you had to mod and violate copyright laws on an original XBox in order to install it. What was/is the purpose of XBMC/Kodi to play every known format of video? If it's to play legit video, keep the codec support down. Has anyone seriously ever ripped a DVD legally to Realmedia format? Or flash video or quick time? No. The broad format support is to support the broad amount of pirated material, especially back in the day. Everything was ripped and pirated in all different formats, and thus, a media player to play all those pirated formats was made.
I almost exclusively used QuickTime in my early computer days. There was even a time when RealMedia was decent. Just when you think something is common, someone will pop up and prove you wrong. Where does pirated content come from? It started with people sharing the files they made, and they made them with different methods. Limiting codec support will do nothing to stop piracy, and that's not something the Kodi project is going to do in the first place.
Quote:3. As said, emulator support seems to be ok. Backing up BIOS and games are still not legal in some areas, so why support it. And do you seriously think every single person running an EMU has backed up all their GBA carts by hand to their PC? Sometimes backing up a BIOS involves circumventing copyright protections.
4. Backing up Blurays and DVD's involves breaking copyright protection, yet supported.
To put it bluntly, because no one gives a damn. No one, not even the content owners.
(the lawyers still try to go after people for ripping software, though, but they're lawyers.)
The issue here isn't about the letter of the law, the issue here is about reputation. No one cares about the "do not walk on the grass" sign. No one will think negatively about the Kodi project because people are watching their legally purchased content in a way that technically breaks the DCMA. Just because something can be used illegally is not a reason to prevent it. That's the kind of bullshit that leads people to try and make it so that TVs only work with "approved" content (yes, there have been people who have tried that).
If Kodi was somehow being used to murder children then they would care only if it was hurting our reputation. If not, then who gives a damn. This is not, and has never been, an issue of morals. It's about protecting asses here and being realistic about it.
EDIT: and keep in mind, this is being extreme for the sake of making a point. Some people in the Kodi project are bothered about the morals, some aren't. You can't really say there's one collective view on the matter of copyright. All you really have is what everyone agrees on, which is the reputation part.
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - natethomas - 2016-02-12
Dang. Lots to cover. Here we go.
First, let's be clear, our opposing piracy add-ons has very little to do with what's legal and illegal. We don't want to be associated with the acquisition of content from a source that doesn't have the right to provide it. And we don't want to be associated with add-ons that are terrible and CONSTANTLY breaking. We've never stopped anyone from installing some crappy add-on, and we've never stopped anyone from developing it. The only goal is to stop 3rd parties from associating our name with it.
Second, virtually everything else said by getochkn is missing a huge and critical point. Team Kodi does not care how you get your content. You can rip it, d/l it, whatever you want with half a dozen different programs. Hell, we don't care if you walk into the movie theater with a camcorder. The only thing we care about is that you don't associate the name Kodi with acquiring content. We are a video player. Backing up blurays is NOT supported, because we don't ship that ability in Kodi. If you back them up using some other software, then again, that's on the other software and you.
Third, if you sell a box with vanilla Kodi on it, then that is perfectly fine according to our policy. If you sell a box with vanilla Kodi and ship it with a guide for piracy or advertise that you'll include a guide for piracy, we will like that less. We are currently speaking with an attorney to figure out exactly what our trademark-related rights are in areas like that.
Fourth, and this is a biggy: We genuinely don't care if Kodi becomes less popular because eBay sellers stop selling it and Youtubers stop pushing a single, crappy use for it. We really don't. We really, really don't. I'm not sure how to make it more clear. We make basically zero dollars doing this, and what little donations and tshirt sales we do make go into travel and hardware. Nobody gets paid. It's undeniable that Kodi has grown quite a bit in the past year or two, but that growth has come with almost no new developers, which is the growth we most care about. If anything, the team has actually shrunk to some extent because the piracy issue often times punishes their development resume or just generally upsets them.
Fifth and finally, because I watched some piracy youtube show about this topic and thought this one was funny. We are not planning on selling Kodi. Hell, we couldn't even if we wanted to. Kodi's GPL license is owned by the thousands of people who developed Kodi. Committing a PR does not include a transfer of copyright. This is happening now because we finally got around to it. And because enough regular users have started complaining. And because sales of what I'm going to call "shitboxes" spiked over the holidays, resulting in a huge rush of new users visiting our forums for the first time to yell at us because "Kodi is broken." We did visit CES, but only one industry interaction had anything to do with piracy. It was when a hardware vendor talked with us about a bug and was surprised to discover that we weren't the ones selling the shitboxes on ebay. Evidently the Youtube guys and eBay guys have so successfully duped the public that even people in the industry believe Team Kodi is responsible for these shitty add-ons and boxes.
That one interaction didn't get us moving, but it was certainly yet another nail in the coffin.
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - User 55003 - 2016-02-12
Well said Chief, lets all move on.
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - awacka2 - 2016-02-12
With all of this going on I was just wondering where kodi would stand? Tbh all this would end up with kodi being a (dvd player) which anyone could pick up really. I'm having an awful feeling that kodi will be no more as no one wants to not be allowed to watch stuff. If anyone wants live TV or anything like that then they will just use the Internet and pretty soon kodi will just be a memory. That's just how I feel about it obviously I don't know much and have tried to make sense of all you have been saying. I'm learning code and hoping to make big things for kodi and hope that I still can. I'm a complete noob to any type of code so it's taking me forever to try and get my head around it all but all this talk is making me wonder if it's all going to be worth it?
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - User 55003 - 2016-02-12
People like you are the problem! Go away!
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - natethomas - 2016-02-12
(2016-02-12, 10:55)awacka2 Wrote: With all of this going on I was just wondering where kodi would stand? Tbh all this would end up with kodi being a (dvd player) which anyone could pick up really. I'm having an awful feeling that kodi will be no more as no one wants to not be allowed to watch stuff. If anyone wants live TV or anything like that then they will just use the Internet and pretty soon kodi will just be a memory. That's just how I feel about it obviously I don't know much and have tried to make sense of all you have been saying. I'm learning code and hoping to make big things for kodi and hope that I still can. I'm a complete noob to any type of code so it's taking me forever to try and get my head around it all but all this talk is making me wonder if it's all going to be worth it?
As stated almost endlessly, you're welcome to develop whatever you want. This issue is about advertising piracy addons using the Kodi name. Don't do that, and you're fine.
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - User 55003 - 2016-02-12
wow, this thred is more hot than the x-files
Please don't edit this.
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - ClassicNancy - 2016-02-12
Nate let me ask again then. I have been using Classic Kodi Skins for my addon/wizard. It is just skins based on aeon nox 5 silvo. No addons just skins and all free. Mike Silvo is aware and I have even posted screenshots on his forum. I cannot use Kodi anywhere to denote the skins are for Kodi? I do not have a website by the way. I deleted it last night. My 6 whole members lol.
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - Ned Scott - 2016-02-12
(2016-02-12, 02:36)trogggy Wrote:(2016-02-12, 02:27)keith Wrote:(2016-02-12, 02:22)trogggy Wrote: You lose a little bit more goodwill when you take my post and assume that I'm using 3rd party sites or anything else that's banned here.We will never go after users. We assume, correctly, that the people who are using our trademarked name are in violation and will respond thusly. As MrMC said, if we don't defend our trademark, we lose it.
If I don't like the policy should I shut up?
We are taking a sledgehammer approach to all of the guys who are abusing our trademark, especially the guys making money off it and providing stuff we do not agree with. Then we will revise to what we feel is right.
I don't agree to your policy on arbitrarily 'banning' the use of Kodi in a website name irrespective of the website content.
And I don't believe you have any legal basis for doing that.
I understand that you don't want kodi associated with piracy.
I'd support any action you take against a site or seller that is passing themselves off as an official kodi site.
But saying something's 'not allowed' is for a court.
I've said the same thing for a long time, trogggy. A couple of years ago (when I was still a member of the team) I even tried to encourage a program that would allow fansites to use the name Kodi in a specific format, that would still allow us to revoke that right to people who abused the situation, even though they probably wouldn't need our approval from a legal standpoint (as it would only be allowed in situations that don't cause any confusion, etc). Trademark law only covers so much, and it is not ownership over the word "kodi". It could easily bite the project in the ass to be too aggressive, and many people who are still in Team Kodi feel that way. As long as there is, you don't have to worry about the Kodi project going all crazy.
That being said, most of the statements being said by Keith aren't for you or I. They're for the people out there who don't know any better. The people who don't understand why bootleg video services being associated with Kodi is a bad thing. So they're simplistic, they're black and white. We all know the actual law is far more complicated than that.
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - natethomas - 2016-02-12
(2016-02-12, 12:04)ClassicNancy Wrote: Nate let me ask again then. I have been using Classic Kodi Skins for my addon/wizard. It is just skins based on aeon nox 5 silvo. No addons just skins and all free. Mike Silvo is aware and I have even posted screenshots on his forum. I cannot use Kodi anywhere to denote the skins are for Kodi? I do not have a website by the way. I deleted it last night. My 6 whole members lol.
Hi ClassicNancy, I think you might be asking two different questions. If you have some skin addon, there's nothing wrong with saying the addon is for Kodi. But ideally you would name it something original to make it clear it's yours and not ours. For example, the default skin for Kodi is called Confluence, rather than "Default skin for Kodi." So you could maybe call your skins ClassicNancy Skins or something? The added benefit of doing this is that if people like your skin, they'll actually find it in a google search, rather than finding 10,000 other skins first.
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - ClassicNancy - 2016-02-12
I'm going through the section now on submitting skins to Kodi. Lots to dissect lol.
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - da-anda - 2016-02-12
(2016-02-12, 09:49)natethomas Wrote: Fourth, and this is a biggy: We genuinely don't care if Kodi becomes less popular because eBay sellers stop selling it and Youtubers stop pushing a single, crappy use for it. We really don't. We really, really don't. I'm not sure how to make it more clear.That !!!!!!!!!!!!! We don't care about how many piracy streaming users we have - there is NO benefit in having those. None, zero, nada! But we care about the project and it's reputation. I also care about my reputation for working on Kodi and I don't want my work being associated with all that crap - that's not what I donate my time for. And if this situation doesn't change soon, I'll move on to something else because I just can't stand all this shit anymore (and I'm not the only team member thinking like that). Therefore I'm glad that we finally take action.
RE: Call to Arms: Combatting Trademark Infringement - j1nx - 2016-02-12
Another big "take down notices" IS NOT action!
See you again in a week or 4.
I still don't see why you guy want to play with the big guys with your foundation an trademark?
XBMC has always been the play it all piece of software. First we downloaded our stuff, burned it to DVD, printing covers etc etc
Than we skipped the whole burning printing stuff and went for a digital library instead.
Now internet speeds has been involved to such extent that we also skip the downloading part.
This all has nothing todo with xbmc/kodi. It is just evolution. At this point kodi has python addon support and therefor is the #1 tool for the demand.
As long this python addon support is there, this whole pissing in the wind action stuff that you are doing is a complete waste of life breaths.
Remove it and everybody is happy.
Everybody? Yes everybody, because other will fork just before that point and carry on with the original old xbmc spirit in mind, without this foundation and trademark crap.
Kodi will happy co exist as a small user base of fanatics and moral knights. Developers would be happy to assosiate there name with it (there you go Da-anda). Althought I strongly believe the project kodi as that will die sooner than later.