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Remove the Song Node - Printable Version

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Remove the Song Node - zag - 2016-03-16

What are peoples views on removing the library songs node from the music section of Kodi?

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It has been pointed out that the node is simply a list of tracks and is of little use for browsing music. Some people like me have 10's of thousands of tracks in there.

Do you use it?

What is your use case?

There is a PR ready to go for removing it but we thought it better to ask the users first.


RE: Remove the Song Node - DarkHelmet - 2016-03-16

I use it sometimes and sort the view by playcount. It gives me an overview of my most played songs.

However this could be done with a smart playlist. So removing it gets my vote.


RE: Remove the Song Node - jjd-uk - 2016-03-16

It's not one I use but it's not something I think we should remove simply because of performance issues on low powered systems. The issue of long lists is not simply restricted to Songs, this brings to mind what you attempt to solve with Artists by https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/7518 but also equally applies to large Movie & TV libraries.


RE: Remove the Song Node - zag - 2016-03-16

This isn't really about performance issues for me, its about having a node that I do not believe is useful as a home entertainment feature.

Does anyone show all the mp3s on their windows desktop computers in a massive list and choose a song? I doubt it Smile

Potentially in the future we could add a better node or more useful feature in its place.

I am particularly interested in anyone who DOES use this node and finds it useful. Maybe I've missed something obvious.


RE: Remove the Song Node - dr88dr88 - 2016-03-16

+1 for removing song node.


RE: Remove the Song Node - Ned Scott - 2016-03-16

I have a small-ish music library (just shy of 7,000), but I almost always list it by song and not by artist or album. I don't normally collect whole albums since there's only one or two songs that I actually want to listen to on a regular basis. I'd rather scroll through everything I have based on track name.

Then again, I'm an old man now (33 is old?) and I don't understand the young people's music anymore. Maybe I'm just out of it?


RE: Remove the Song Node - Tolriq - 2016-03-16

I do use it often to find a song that I barely know the name, but in Estuary with good integration of the globalsearch addon I suppose I'll use it a lot less.

@ned you are quite young Wink

But the main question is why removing something that could be useful to some ? There's large library of movies, it's hard to browse a long movie list, yet I sometimes do browse it do find something to watch.

Or maybe remove the node and add a default playlist.


RE: Remove the Song Node - DaveBlake - 2016-03-16

Yes, the songs node is an unfiltered list of all the songs in the library. If the library is large there can be a painfully long delay before that list is displayed, I assume that is the main reason why some people want to remove this facility.

But despite the slowness, I am strongly against the removeal of this node. At very least if you do decide to remove it as a default node, then I hope that the core facility remains so that users can create a folder type custom node (using musicdb//songs) that does the same thing.

It seems crazy to me that we even consider removing the ability to list all the songs. It may not be something used often or by everyone, but that is not reason to remove it.

There is the presumption that all users categorise their music by genre, or have albums. Some users, I believe, don't tag or scrape genre, or organise their music by albums. If your library is a collection of songs then seeing a list of all of them may be just what you want. If your library is small, and not everyone owns lots of music, a list of songs is also usable way to browse. What chance that these users are watching this forum to know to reply?

Users can also create smart playlists with lots of songs that are very slow to display, so removing the songs node does not solve the underlying speed issue. It is all too easy to remove a function, much harder to improve the design.


RE: Remove the Song Node - zag - 2016-03-16

(2016-03-16, 14:13)DaveBlake Wrote: Yes, the songs node is an unfiltered list of all the songs in the library. If the library is large there can be a painfully long delay before that list is displayed, I assume that is the main reason why some people want to remove this facility.

I think its more about GUI space actually, but the speed thing has come up a few times on the forum by users.

Removing stuff is always controversial, hence this thread, but I do think that if we cant get rid of something and encourage people to build better stuff (Like the A-Z auto node features) then we get a little stuck in innovation.


RE: Remove the Song Node - Tolriq - 2016-03-16

(2016-03-16, 14:19)zag Wrote: but the speed thing has come up a few times on the forum by users.

I may miss something obvious, but isn't the fact that user complains about the speed of something, the proof that users do use and need this thing ?


RE: Remove the Song Node - DaveBlake - 2016-03-16

For those interested the PR is here https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/pull/9360


RE: Remove the Song Node - black_eagle - 2016-03-16

I don't use the song node as such, but I can imagine that there are a lot of people who do.

Besides, one of the reasons I enjoy Kodi is the flexibility it gives me to display my media the way I want to. Removing the song node would remove some of that flexibility. Besides, displaying all the songs isn't slow, its starting playback of one of them that is.


RE: Remove the Song Node - zag - 2016-03-16

(2016-03-16, 14:25)Tolriq Wrote:
(2016-03-16, 14:19)zag Wrote: but the speed thing has come up a few times on the forum by users.

I may miss something obvious, but isn't the fact that user complains about the speed of something, the proof that users do use and need this thing ?

Yes indeed there was a thread about it recently but I couldn't find it.

I'm certainly open to keeping it, I just wanted to know why people use it over something like Artist >> Album >> Track, and had a concern it was simply because people didnt scan their music in properly or didnt know about the global search or top 100 node features.


RE: Remove the Song Node - DaveBlake - 2016-03-16

(2016-03-16, 14:25)Tolriq Wrote:
(2016-03-16, 14:19)zag Wrote: but the speed thing has come up a few times on the forum by users.

I may miss something obvious, but isn't the fact that user complains about the speed of something, the proof that users do use and need this thing ?

Good point @Tolriq.

Those using songs node most are unlikely to be reading this. Garning a balanced user viewpoint is very difficult, but I appreciate that @zag is trying.

Speed was a reason for removeal Phil gave in the PR, and I know Razze held that view too. But long lists of any kind not just songs are an issue in the current CFileItem based design.

Quote:I think its more about GUI space actually, but the speed thing has come up a few times on the forum by users.

Removing stuff is always controversial, hence this thread, but I do think that if we cant get rid of something and encourage people to build better stuff (Like the A-Z auto node features) then we get a little stuck in innovation.

Well @zag innovate! Removeal of functionality is not innovation, far from it. Delete a file and the songs node is toast, no skill or creativity involved whatsoever.

GUI clutter, well the menu layout is user configurable, but easier users to remove things than create new.

Earlier on you asked what you were missing. I think it is the many uses Kodi has - small music libraries, just collections of songs (not albums) etc. Sure on a vast library of albums you are not going to bother with the full song list, but not all users have that extensive a collection.


RE: Remove the Song Node - jjd-uk - 2016-03-16

I've seen many reports of users using the Songs node to initiate random playback of their entire library which is why I vote for it to not be removed.


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