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+--- Thread: Intel Apollo Lake (/showthread.php?tid=270298)
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RE: Intel Apollo Lake - dumpling - 2017-04-17
(2017-04-17, 13:22)noggin Wrote:Thank you for your effort to explain.(2017-04-17, 07:10)dumpling Wrote: BTW, in the datasheet, it says stereoscopic 3d forwarding. What's that mean?
3D MVC content will be passthrough to TV? Sorry, I'm newbie to 3D
Suspect it means that Full HD 3D content, which would be carried in 1920x2205 Frame Packed mode over HDMI can be carried over DisplayLink (don't know if they use the same 1920x2205 format for DP) and then converted and output as 1920x2205 Frame Packed over HDMI? (Frame packing effectively sends the two eye feeds as consecutive 1920x1080 frames with 45 lines of blanking between them)
(MVC can't 'passthrough' - it's the compression scheme used by Blu-ray discs, not the video format carried over HDMI. MVC is the addition to H264 compression. One eye is encoded using regular 2D-compatible H264, the other eye is heavily compressed, with the secondary MVC signal allowing reconstruction of the second eye feed based on the compressed differences between the H264 'eye' and the second eye. This is much more efficient than compressing the two eyes entirely separately. Lots of people confuse MVC - which is the on-disc encoding/compression format used by Blu-ray - with 3D Frame Packing, which is the main standard used to carry 1920x1080 or 1280x720 Full resolution 3D eye feeds over HDMI connections.)
Base on this, MVC data is 1st eye regular H264 feed + 2nd eye feed(base on the 1st eye feed to achieve heavily compressed rate) rather than simply double the data. Thus MVC is little bigger than the normal 2D file not double it. And MVC file pack in 1920x2205(1080x2+45)
What you lost me is 3D Frame Packing. I believe you mean it's the special packaging for MVC signal so the player recognizes it's MVC content and playback correctly, no?
My understanding is this, encode as MVC-> pack as 3D Frame Packing-> decode in player-> send over HDMI-> 3D compatible TV or display is irrelevant? My concern is latter 3 parts. Does it have to be hardware chip decode or soft decode or Apollo Lake DXVA2 will do? Is there any specific HDMI standard to carry MVC signal? Do I need a 3D TV to display correctly?
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - PauleFoul - 2017-04-17
(2017-04-06, 23:08)mule1 Wrote: But there is some hope now as we have found one very good Intel supporter on the Intel NUC forums who already made the FW updates for the DP2HDMI2.0 converter chip from Megachips possible..Any news from this "Intel-Guy"?
This guy just wrote: "So as you all say, bitstreaming through LibreElec didn't work fro me either. I've opened an engineering order for them to look at this. I'll let you all know the progress."
Fingers crossed that he knows the right guys in the Inteluniverse to solve the Linux issues.
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - bon_gr - 2017-04-17
Hello to all, sorry if I am posting a duplicate question. I am thinking of purchasing a Celeron J3455 based intel NUC (BOXNUC6CAYH). I only want to use libreelec, and I am interested in the following:
x265 playback
4K playback
HDR
10bit
VP9 support
Can someone please confirm the above work and, if not, point me to a better alternative?
Thanks in advance
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - sunnyfunny - 2017-04-17
X265 ok
4k Playback ok
HDR no (maybe in the future)
10bit ok
Vp9 never needed or used
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - bon_gr - 2017-04-17
(2017-04-17, 16:53)sunnyfunny Wrote: X265 ok
4k Playback ok
HDR no (maybe in the future)
10bit ok
Vp9 never needed or used
Thank you for your reply. So there is no way to get HDR under librelec and this CPU? Maybe with a different CPU?
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - fritsch - 2017-04-17
No.
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - dumpling - 2017-04-17
(2017-04-17, 16:53)sunnyfunny Wrote: X265 ok
4k Playback ok
HDR no (maybe in the future)
10bit ok
Vp9 never needed or used
How about HDR in Win10?
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - wesk05 - 2017-04-17
(2017-04-17, 19:07)dumpling Wrote: How about HDR in Win10?Kodi 17.x or 18 pre-release builds do not support HDR. I am not entirely sure about this, but I think Kodi will need to support DirectX 12 to get HDR working.
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - noggin - 2017-04-18
(2017-04-17, 14:44)dumpling Wrote:Yes - there are two data streams. One carries a 1920x1080 H264 signal - effectively a 2D signal carrying one eye feed. I believe that 2D players 'see' this and happily play (some? all? ) 3D Blu-rays in 2D mode as a result. The second stream carries a compressed MVC stream which is Multi View Coding. This looks at the differences between the two eye feeds, and creates a signal based on these that allow the second 1920x1080 eye feed to be reconstructed by the player. As the MVC feed carries only 'eye differences' and there is a lot of redundancy between the two eyes, the MVC signal is significantly smaller than a second 2D H264 1920x1080 feed would be (as it would be coded indepentently) As you say - this reduces the file size / bit rate requirements significantly. It's why MVC is used.(2017-04-17, 13:22)noggin Wrote:Thank you for your effort to explain.(2017-04-17, 07:10)dumpling Wrote: BTW, in the datasheet, it says stereoscopic 3d forwarding. What's that mean?
3D MVC content will be passthrough to TV? Sorry, I'm newbie to 3D
Suspect it means that Full HD 3D content, which would be carried in 1920x2205 Frame Packed mode over HDMI can be carried over DisplayLink (don't know if they use the same 1920x2205 format for DP) and then converted and output as 1920x2205 Frame Packed over HDMI? (Frame packing effectively sends the two eye feeds as consecutive 1920x1080 frames with 45 lines of blanking between them)
(MVC can't 'passthrough' - it's the compression scheme used by Blu-ray discs, not the video format carried over HDMI. MVC is the addition to H264 compression. One eye is encoded using regular 2D-compatible H264, the other eye is heavily compressed, with the secondary MVC signal allowing reconstruction of the second eye feed based on the compressed differences between the H264 'eye' and the second eye. This is much more efficient than compressing the two eyes entirely separately. Lots of people confuse MVC - which is the on-disc encoding/compression format used by Blu-ray - with 3D Frame Packing, which is the main standard used to carry 1920x1080 or 1280x720 Full resolution 3D eye feeds over HDMI connections.)
Base on this, MVC data is 1st eye regular H264 feed + 2nd eye feed(base on the 1st eye feed to achieve heavily compressed rate) rather than simply double the data. Thus MVC is little bigger than the normal 2D file not double it.
Quote:And MVC file pack in 1920x2205(1080x2+45)
No - MVC just encodes a second 1920x1080 eye feed, along with the original 1920x1080 H264 feed. When decoded the H264 and MVC streams generate 2 x 1920x1080 images - one for each eye.
You are confusing MVC - which is the compressed codec (like H264, MPEG2, VC-1 etc.) with the HDMI connection system - which is uncompressed in video terms.
The 1920x2205 signal is the uncompressed video format that is used to carry these two eye feeds over the HDMI cable. HDMI carries video in uncompressed format - and sends it line-by-line, frame-by-frame (or field-by-field for interlaced video) over the cable.
For 3D there is a 'frame packed' mode where a 1920x2205 frame is packed with 2 x 1920x1080 eye feeds. Hence 'Frame Packed'
Quote:What you lost me is 3D Frame Packing.3D Frame Packing is the bit of the HDMI standard that defines how HDMI is used for carrying two 1920x1080p frames at 24fps embedded as a 1920x2205 frame required for 3D 24p at full resolution (There is also a version for 1280x720/50p and 59.94/60p) It is THE main HDMI standard that Blu-ray players use when they playback Blu-ray discs to 3D TVs.
It's not linked directly to MVC (which is the compressed codec used on Blu-ray discs) but MVC is the compression system used for Blu-ray 3D video, and 3D Frame Packing is the bit of the HDMI standard that allows Full HD 3D content to be carried over HDMI
Quote:I believe you mean it's the special packaging for MVC signal so the player recognizes it's MVC content and playback correctly, no?
No - it's part of the HDMI standard.
There is a distinction between the MVC content on the disk - and the method used to carry 3D content to the display. It's possible to use 3D Frame Packing over HDMI to carry 3D content that hasn't been MVC compressed on a Blu-ray disk. A games console could deliver 3D via this route too.
Quote:My understanding is this, encode as MVC-> pack as 3D Frame Packing-> decode in player-> send over HDMI-> 3D compatible TV or display is irrelevant?
No this is the path - Encode two 1920x1080 eye feeds as H264+MVC (done by Blu-ray mastering people)->Blu-ray Disc->Decode H264+MVC to two 1920x1080 eye feeds-> Output these two 1920x1080 eye feeds as 1920x2205 Frame Packed 3D over HDM.
Quote:My concern is latter 3 parts. Does it have to be hardware chip decode or soft decode or Apollo Lake DXVA2 will do?
I believe either approach can be used - can't comment on which is used by Apollo Lake - but believe it is fine. (After all Bay Trail Atom will do it...)
Quote: Is there any specific HDMI standard to carry MVC signal?HDMI doesn't carry MVC - it carries 3D Frame Packed (which is the format that MVC decoded video is likely to be output as). This is THE 3D HDMI standard that Blu-ray players etc. all use
Quote: Do I need a 3D TV to display correctly?
You need a 3D TV to watch 3D obviously...
ONE thing to be aware of is that many Apollo Lake (and Kaby Lake) devices are offering HDMI 2.0 outputs. These are not native HDMI from the Intel CPU but instead are using the Intel CPU's Displayport 1.2 output and converting it to HDMI 2.0. Boards with HDMI 1.4 outputs are fine I believe. I think the DP 1.2->HDMI 2.0 outputs MAY have 3D MVC working now - but can't be sure. Others will be better placed to advise.
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - sunnyfunny - 2017-04-18
(2017-04-17, 19:07)dumpling Wrote: How about HDR in Win10?
Buy Power DVD 17 Ultra/Premium and feel free to test it. Power DVD 17 it the only software which support HDR.
Also latest Windows 10 Build is needed.
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - honcho - 2017-04-18
I have tested an HDR movie with powerdvd 17 on my apollo lake.
The tv reports HDR is working, the player reports HDR is working. However it just buffers for 20 seconds, then plays 3 frames, then buffers for 20 seconds?
This is over gig to my NAS. I can stream straight to my samsung tv over wifi to the NAS just fine. I can stream non HDR 4k videos just fine. Soon as I try HDR with pdvd 17 it just buffers. There's a bug somewhere.
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - mule1 - 2017-04-18
(2017-04-17, 15:09)PauleFoul Wrote:Sorry, no news yet. But he wrote that he will be absent for some little time from the support forum. Hopefully some news will arise in the next days.(2017-04-06, 23:08)mule1 Wrote: But there is some hope now as we have found one very good Intel supporter on the Intel NUC forums who already made the FW updates for the DP2HDMI2.0 converter chip from Megachips possible..Any news from this "Intel-Guy"?
This guy just wrote: "So as you all say, bitstreaming through LibreElec didn't work fro me either. I've opened an engineering order for them to look at this. I'll let you all know the progress."
Fingers crossed that he knows the right guys in the Inteluniverse to solve the Linux issues.
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - wookl - 2017-04-19
Has the latest firmware fixed hd-sound formats with nuc6c and libreelec, or is it still broken?
(2017-04-17, 16:53)sunnyfunny Wrote: X265 ok
4k Playback ok
HDR no (maybe in the future)
10bit ok
Vp9 never needed or used
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - Valter84 - 2017-04-19
Yesterday I have installed windows 10 creator update on my htpc and power dvd 17 and I can`t get HDR.
Don`t know what I am missing.
Do you have to enable something on Windows or Power DVD?
My HTCP Setup:
ASRock J3455ITX
4Gb Ram
128GB SSD
TV - Hisense 55M5500
For now, when I wan to see a HDR movie, I use movie app from my Hisense TV.
I hope someone brings HDR to kodi 18.
For me, everything else is working properly.
Best regards.
RE: Intel Apollo Lake - sunnyfunny - 2017-04-19
It is not even 100% sure can Apollo Lake can be HDR at all.