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+--- Thread: Android nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: May 25, 2018 (/showthread.php?tid=304226)
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RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - wiiija - 2017-03-15
Whats the general consensus on color space with the shield, I'm struggling to to find the best choice with my TV (Panasonic 50DX700), I know I'm probably opening a can of worms by asking but I'm going around in circles trying to figure out the best choice
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - cscoppa - 2017-03-15
(2017-03-15, 16:13)wiiija Wrote: Whats the general consensus on color space with the shield, I'm struggling to to find the best choice with my TV (Panasonic 50DX700), I know I'm probably opening a can of worms by asking but I'm going around in circles trying to figure out the best choice
Lately I've been keeping mine on BT.709 for everyday viewing, and only switch to BT.2020 when I'm watching something encoded that way. (UHD 4K, HDR type material)
Seems like the colors are better that way but it could be placebo...
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - wiiija - 2017-03-15
Thank you, yeh I guess switching depending on the source is the best idea, I mainly watch HDR material I've got it set to YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 2020 at the moment, no idea if it's the best or worst choice, so many to choose from!
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - cscoppa - 2017-03-15
(2017-03-15, 16:32)wiiija Wrote: Thank you, yeh I guess switching depending on the source is the best idea, I mainly watch HDR material I've got it set to YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit Rec. 2020 at the moment, no idea if it's the best or worst choice, so many to choose from!
I believe 10 bit 2020 is the correct choice for HDR content so sounds like you're good.
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - hansolo - 2017-03-15
I hardly understand why if original content for movies is YCbCr 4:2:0 somebody will choose another color space (like RGB). I doubt that for lowcost players/TVs it can be a better choice because it will mean that YCbCr conversion in TV is worse than in mediaplayer.
For high-end equipment like Lumagen videoprocessor or highend projector it's another discussion.
A good read at http://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio/choosing-a-color-space-2/
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - noggin - 2017-03-15
(2017-03-15, 17:08)hansolo Wrote: I hardly understand why if original content for movies is YCbCr 4:2:0 somebody will choose another color space (like RGB). I doubt that for lowcost players/TVs it can be a better choice because it will mean that YCbCr conversion in TV is worse than in mediaplayer.
For high-end equipment like Lumagen videoprocessor or highend projector it's another discussion.
A good read at http://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio/choosing-a-color-space-2/
Lots of media players convert from YCbCr to RGB internally - so outputting RGB rather than YCbCr avoids two further conversions (one from RGB to YCbCr in the player and another from YCbCr to RGB in the display) -so there is some sense in it.
Also SD YCbCr is different to HD YCbCr (601 and 709 have different YCbCr <-> RGB co-efficients) - and though it is possible to convert between 601 and 709 in the YCbCr domain you are still adding a conversion process into the mix - so why not convert to RGB? (In other words you can't play a YCbCr DVD (which will be 601) upconverted to HD YCbCr (which will be 709) without 601 to 709 colour space conversion of some sort...)
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - hansolo - 2017-03-16
@noggin, I know that you have experience, could you tell me what mediaplayers convert internally from YCbCr to RGB and why? The little experience I have, my own bluray LG BP740, Shield and TV Samsung HU7500 failed more tests from SM2 Color and Space Evaluation in RGB than in YCbCr.
I know that SD is 601 but some (most?) TVs (like Panasonic Plasma and unlike Pioneer Plasma) do internal processing in YCbCr, including color space conversion and upscaling, so outputting in RGB forced them to do another conversion.
Thank you!
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - noggin - 2017-03-16
(2017-03-16, 08:29)hansolo Wrote: @noggin, I know that you have experience, could you tell me what mediaplayers convert internally from YCbCr to RGB and why? The little experience I have, my own bluray LG BP740, Shield and TV Samsung HU7500 failed more tests from SM2 Color and Space Evaluation in RGB than in YCbCr.
I know that SD is 601 but some (most?) TVs (like Panasonic Plasma and unlike Pioneer Plasma) do internal processing in YCbCr, including color space conversion and upscaling, so outputting in RGB forced them to do another conversion.
Thank you!
Afraid I've never looked into it that much. Whilst I care about picture quality, I don't obsess over it for 4:2:0 consumer-grade content (Blu-ray and below).
I'm afraid I don't know enough about internal processing paths to say which are entirely YCbCr (i.e. where RGB OSDs, full-screen pictures etc. are rendered to YCbCr and then overlaid over YCbCr video) and which use an RGB process for their video.
fritsch and wesk05 are probably far better qualified.
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - puntloos - 2017-03-16
(2017-03-14, 12:42)noggin Wrote: Absolutely - but if it's a case of that or not having multichannel audio at all - I'd go with the re-encode. It's a high bitrate DD encode (640k I think), so it won't introduce horrific concatenation artefacts... (If it were 256k 5.1 I'd wince. I had a DVD with that quality encode - and now know what 5.1 AM radio would sound like...)
Just in general though, if a receiver supports multichannel LPCM, it will get multichannel LPCM?
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - wesk05 - 2017-03-16
Barring a few devices, all of them seem to do internal processing in YCbCr. It is much easier to manipulate luminance and chroma with YCbCr. It used to be that if you could change brightness/contrast on a display when the input signal is RGB, you could say that the internal processing is in YCbCr. With the newer SoCs used in displays these days, it has become difficult to draw this conclusion. If the manufacturer doesn't specify what the internal processing is, it is almost not possible to test for it in any meaningful way.
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - Nebudchanezzer - 2017-03-16
Don't know if this is the right place to ask but I couldn't really find any specific forum for this...
After the last SPMC update the Nvidia controller stopped working in SPMC, the only button working after I have started SPMC is the "home"-button.
Anyone have a clue as how to solve this?
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - HTPC-ASR - 2017-03-16
news about HDCP 2.2 issue in the HDMI 1.4 chain?
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - noggin - 2017-03-17
(2017-03-16, 18:37)puntloos Wrote:(2017-03-14, 12:42)noggin Wrote: Absolutely - but if it's a case of that or not having multichannel audio at all - I'd go with the re-encode. It's a high bitrate DD encode (640k I think), so it won't introduce horrific concatenation artefacts... (If it were 256k 5.1 I'd wince. I had a DVD with that quality encode - and now know what 5.1 AM radio would sound like...)
Just in general though, if a receiver supports multichannel LPCM, it will get multichannel LPCM?
Yes - if you configure for >2.0 channels and your device supports multichannel PCM - that's what you'll get unless you have passthrough. (And for FLAC and AAC passthrough isn't an option)
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - DXer - 2017-03-17
Hi all,
I've just ordered a Shield Pro and I have a few questions I'd like to have answers to before setting things up.
This will replace a dedicated Windows 7 Home Theater PC running Kodi Krypton, using the Amber skin. The Shield will connect via HDMI to a Denon AVR (HDCP 2.2 compliant, with appropriate cables), and will feed a 4k/HDR TV. I am very familiar with the Kodi interface, but not the Shield. Questions, then:
1) My media is stored in two locations: A NAS server in the basement, and two hard drives on my existing HTPC, which will be moved to a different room for a second TV. I'm guessing that adding a NAS share will be easy enough since it's NFS, but how can I add paths to the Windows based NTFS-formatted drive(s) across the LAN? The internal 500 GB HDD won't be nearly enough storage space for my media (I'm around 6 TB between all my devices).
2) Can I upscale my existing 720p and 1080i/p content to 4k using the Shield? Before answering, my TV has horrible upscaling natively. My Denon AVR also upscales, and I'm running my cable box through it, hence the scaler is turned on in the AVR.
3) Should I be running Krypton, Jarvis or SPMC on this new box? Will all my existing things like the Amber skin and add-ons function the same on the Shield as they do on the Windows PC with Krypton, and do I get this from the Play Store or do I have to side-load? I've heard conflicting things and this is all VERY new and strange to me.
4) If I want to watch Netflix or Amazon with the NVidia, do I have to drop out of Kodi entirely then use the Shield's UI to do these functions, or can they be integrated into the Kodi interface? I'm looking for a very simple wife-and-kids friendly solution here.
5) Anything else I should know when migrating to this platform? Please and thanks.
RE: nVidia Shield TV (2015 & 2017 Models) - UPDATED: Jan 26 2017 - Tinwarble - 2017-03-17
(2017-03-17, 06:02)DXer Wrote: 1) My media is stored in two locations: A NAS server in the basement, and two hard drives on my existing HTPC, which will be moved to a different room for a second TV. I'm guessing that adding a NAS share will be easy enough since it's NFS, but how can I add paths to the Windows based NTFS-formatted drive(s) across the LAN? The internal 500 GB HDD won't be nearly enough storage space for my media (I'm around 6 TB between all my devices).
Just add them as a SMB share.
Quote:2) Can I upscale my existing 720p and 1080i/p content to 4k using the Shield? Before answering, my TV has horrible upscaling natively. My Denon AVR also upscales, and I'm running my cable box through it, hence the scaler is turned on in the AVR.
Yes, if everything in you HDMI chain is 4K compliant and you set the Shield to 4K then it will upscale everything.
Quote:3) Should I be running Krypton, Jarvis or SPMC on this new box? Will all my existing things like the Amber skin and add-ons function the same on the Shield as they do on the Windows PC with Krypton, and do I get this from the Play Store or do I have to side-load? I've heard conflicting things and this is all VERY new and strange to me.
Either use SPMC or Krypton, especially if you care about HD audio. Since they have different signatures you can install both to run them side by side and see which suits your needs best.
Quote:4) If I want to watch Netflix or Amazon with the NVidia, do I have to drop out of Kodi entirely then use the Shield's UI to do these functions, or can they be integrated into the Kodi interface? I'm looking for a very simple wife-and-kids friendly solution here.
Yes, you can launch other apps from within Kodi, but how easy that will be to do is skin dependent.