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4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wrxtasy - 2018-05-25

(Updated November. 2019)

The aim of this thread is not to play one media player off against the other but simply to collect known issues across various media players into one central condensed thread so potential buyers can be informed about various problems and limitations that may affect them personally if buying 4K HDR10 capable hardware.

This thread will be updated as various issues get fixed, and those issues are confirmed tested & fixed by more than a single user AND media player sellers release stable Firmware updates to the general public.
If anything is missing/incorrect and considered a serious issue please let me know.


*** Gigabit Ethernet (1000M) is needed for reliable 7.1 HD audio - 4K HDR Bluray Rip home networked streaming. ***

*** There is no Bluray ISO Rip DolbyVision or HDR10+ support on any Kodi capable media player ***

Single layer, player led, Profile 5 - DolbyVision (not raw ISO Rips Dual Layer) playback support:

...can be found with the Infuse (click) and MrMC (click) Apps on the Apple TV 4K.
2019 Shield TV Pro / Stick --->> NO for Kodi, MrMC, VLC etc YES for Plex Beta.

NEW: DolbyVision vs HDR10+ on 2019 Panasonic OLED's (click)


IMPORTANT - September 2019 -->>> Correct - media player HDMI MaxCLL/FALL HDR metadata output ?
Does it even matter if your expensive 4K HDR TV can do it's own version of Dynamic Tone Mapping ?
-->>> the following post needs to be read 2897271 (post)

Also this thread is a good background pre-read about what to look for with seamless SDR & 4K HDR usage...
Auto Frame Rate Switching & Dynamic Range Matching - 4K (HDR10) capable Hardware (click)


4K HDR10 capable platforms.

In no particular order....

RPi4 & Intel x86_64 - Linux / LibreELEC
  • NO working Kodi HDR10 support wait till approx. mid/late 2020, read 2879140 (post)

Intel x86_64
  • NEW - 4K HDR support Now available with Windows and Kodi v19 using THIS ongoing development build (click) & THIS (click) type of Intel / Nvidia hardware.
  • That linked build also has full Bluray Menus support.
  • No 4K HDR support when using Linux or LibreELEC or standard Windows Kodi.
  • No Linux 10bit HEVC decode support (needed for 4K) when using NVIDIA Graphics cards.
  • Previously 4K HDR Windows Kodi needed....
  • Windows 7 or latter and a Nvidia or AMD GPU that does 10bit HEVC hardware decoding + Kodi DSPlayer build (Jarvis or Krypton)
  • Current best & cheapest option is an AMD Ryzen 5 2400G
  • Custom HDR10 Kodi: Any official Kodi Windows build combined with an external media player that supports madVR, such as Media Player Classic.
  • Windows 4K HDR Netflix hardware requirements are listed HERE (click)

NVIDIA Shield - Experience 8.0 (Pie 9.0 OS) (click):
  • 2019 Shield TV Pro/Tube is the best, most powerful, most expensive Android hardware on the market for Android Kodi usage.
  • WARNING - 2019 Shield TV Pro colorspace switching issues already being reported - AGAIN (click) ! and HERE (click)
  • Likely Fixed ! with a Nvidia Hotfix custom test image (click).
  • Shield Experience 8.0.1 released (click) where Kodi auto colorspace switching may have be fixed.
    However there still appears to be problems with other Apps (click) and Firmware may not be entirely stable.
  • HDR to SDR or BT.2020 to BT.709 conversions Not supported on any Shield for SDR only displays.
  • 2015/2017 Shields - No DolbyVision Apps support vs what the competition are providing.
  • Ongoing issues... (inc. Pie & Oreo)
  • VC-1 Bluray Rips may still have playback problems.
  • 2015/2017 Shield - Relatively poor 1080p > 4K hardware upscaled picture quality vs what the competition and a 4K TV can output using it's superior upscaling hardware. This is due to the poor hardware upscaler in the old (but still fast) Maxwell GPU, that the Shield uses.
  • 2015/2017 Shield - Kodi v18 Leia & MrMC Apps can work around this poor upscaling with auto 4K <<-->>1080p resolution switching, however then....
  • What about high quality picture upscaling for all other non Kodi Apps ?
  • For Apps usage - only Kodi, MrMC, Plex and Emby can reliably auto refresh switch at an OS system level for smooth video playback.
  • Be aware the 2015/2017 Shield has no Dolby Audio licence, so Apps that stream 5.1 DD+ Audio like Netflix and Amazon Video needs a HDMI connected DD+ audio receiver. Otherwise expect 2.0 audio only from such Apps.
  • NO 4K HDR YouTube or 4K HDR Google Play movies support either due to the Shield unable to decode Google's VP9 profile 2.
    4K SDR YT only - even on the new 2019 Shield TV Pro (click)

NEW - 2019 - ODROID N2 running CoreELEC Kodi Leia (click):
  • Snappy AMLogic S922X device with great output picture quality.
  • The best passive heatsink design I've ever seen.
  • The only Linux Kodi Leia device that outputs correct 4K HDR Infoframe data
  • The best bang for the buck, most powerful ARM based Linux board for 4K HDR Kodi Leia, currently on the market.
  • For 4K HLG recording Drone & BBC 4K HDR TV content lovers HLG HDR playback is supported.
  • HDR10+ content will be output as regular HDR10, until upstream Kernel bug fixes surface.
  • No > 2.0 Multichannel LPCM audio support for 5.1/7.1 AAC/FLAC audio, Kodi 5.1 AC3 audio transcoding must be used Fixed ! HERE
  • Audio passthru inc. HD, Atmos and DTS:X is fine.
  • Really not a lot of limitations for 4K HDR + HD audio + OTA TV Kodi Leia usage, ongoing developments and issues can be found HERE (click)

Zidoo Z-series (Z9S & Z10) (click)
  • Kodi doesn't run natively, but Zidoo's fork ZDMC Leia & Krypton-based are both available.
  • ZDMC (Kodi fork) is mostly used a front-end to push media playback to external (native) media player app.
  • 4K HDR with Max CLL/FALL infoframe data passthrough
  • HDR to SDR mapping
  • Fully supports HD audio (including ATMOS & DTS:X) and LPCM.
  • Best player for full 1080p 3D + 4K support in one
  • Deinterlacing for OTA TV has never been a strong performer on this platform.
  • Only SD quality Netflix, Amazon, etc.

Xiaomi Mi Box (Oreo OS) running Kodi Leia (click):
  • No Gigabit Ethernet for high bitrate 4K video playback - a cheap USB3 > Gigabit adapter needs to be used for any high bitrate Video streaming.
  • An ASIX (Ugreen) & Realtek chipset (USB Hub) adapters confirmed working.
  • NO HD audio passthrough at all on the 2018 Mi Box S
  • Multiple options in Android Settings on the Oreo Mi Box for auto HDR to SDR or auto SDR to HDR switching as well as Chroma & bit depth selections.
  • 4K HDR > SDR sort of works but colors are not 100% correct.
  • Kodi Krypton & Leia PVR Addons produces poor quality (half motion) deinterlacing for OTA TV viewing.
  • 60Hz 4K HDR YouTube works if the community modded Webwrapper Smart Youtube TV App (click) is installed.
  • Amazon (Prime) 4K HDR Video works if the v.4.7.9 Prime Video App (click) is installed.

Vero 4(+) running OSMC Kodi (click):
  • A upgraded Vero 4K+(click) (S905D) now being sold with Gigabit Ethernet & includes faster eMMC storage and other tweaks.
  • The original Vero 4K has No Gigabit Ethernet for high bitrate 4K video playback - a cheap USB3 > Gigabit adapter needs to be used to make high bitrate streaming bulletproof.
  • 4K HDR Auto colorspace/bit depth switching not 100% reliable yet for LG OLED's. Fixed for problematic LG displays.
  • Lots of detailed 4K HDR testing and improvements happening with the Vero 4K+
  • The Vero4K+ is now easiest - Plug n Play - 4K HDR Atmos Kodi media player on the market to get up and running. Set and Forget.

Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K (click): & New:2019 Amazon FireTV Cube (click)
  • The bargain device of 2018 for USA users. Priced at $35 for Black Friday.
  • Does colorspace switching between SDR, HDR10, and DolbyVision with correct color outputs.
  • 4K HDR Bluray Rips playback possible when adding a USB3 > Gigabit Adapter such as the Inateck & Ugreen branded ones.
  • Class leading wireless remote.
  • Limitations are Kodi Leia has to be sideloaded (easy).
  • There may be an audio delay problem with AAC audio and Kodi but the MrMC App is fine, which directly installs.
  • NO Bluray Atmos audio passthrough support, but you do get properly implemented Dolby Audio Apps support.
  • Deinterlacing may or may not be a problem, depends where you live in the world it seems.
  • Check FireTV Stick 4K thread for updates.

AMLogic S905 / S912 / S922X platforms running DIY CoreELEC Leia (click):
  • The most powerful AMLogic chipset the new S922X, found in the ODROID N2 (click), has (CoreELEC Leia) 4K HDR and HD audio passthrough support.
  • The New S905X2 / S922X chipsets, use less power and subsequently run cooler vs the previous generation.
  • New S905X2 devices now have CoreELEC Kodi Leia 4K HDR + HD audio support.
  • S905 only chipsets do NOT support HDR.
  • S905D Chipsets often come packaged with a TV tuner and GigaE.
  • S912 Chipsets are now the 2nd fastest with a pretty decent CPU/GPU package.
  • Be careful not all platforms come with Gigabit Ethernet, lots of choices in this AML LE thread (click)
  • The cheap devices usually always include highly directional, limited range Infra Red only remotes, and also...
  • ..usually have relatively poor Chipset heatsinks and thermal management. MINIX & Odroid N2 Hardware beats all others with quality heatsinks.
  • Auto 4:4:4 10bit works fine for 24p 4K HDR.

Apple TV 4K running the v 3.7.0 MrMC App (click):
  • Superb picture quality with high quality upscaling. Currently the most powerful Plug n Play 4K HDR media player on the market.
  • MrMC = highly modded Kodi Jarvis. Very experienced Ex Kodi developers run the MrMC project. Improvements to the App happen quickly.
  • No additional Kodi Addons or Skin can be installed. You have to use the ones already pre-packaged into MrMC. The upcoming Ariana Skin is very nice ! Big Grin
  • No audio passthrough at all with the ATV 4K so no Atmos or DTS:X 3D audio, the TrueHD or DTS-HD MA audio stream will be used.
  • 48kHz/24bit - 5.1 DD/DTS & 7.1 HD audio is decoded into 5.1 / 7.1 - 48kHz/24bit LPCM for no loss in audio quality, or downmixed into 5.1 DD
  • EDIT: - Dolby ATMOS support announced for upcoming tvOS 12.x Firmware, looks like it's iTunes, VUDU, Netflix (and possibly Amazon) only at this stage:
    Apple TV 4K delivers highest quality cinematic experience with tvOS 12 (Click)
  • NO 4K YouTube may be an App limitation for some. 1080p only.

Zidoo X9S (click):
  • Kodi Leia currently not supported.
  • Does not run Kodi Krypton natively to provide 4K HDR or HD audio passthrough.
  • ZDMC (Kodi fork) is used as a front end for an external media player software.
  • Video Frame Rate microstutters, details and links in THIS post onwards. Fixed !
  • Color banding issues (click) with current Firmware.
  • Improvement to color banding with new Firmware, see THIS Post for details.
  • Deinterlacing for OTA TV has never been a strong performer on this platform.

HiMedia Q5/Q10 Pro (click)



Image

Further Notes and FAQ's:
  • There is no media player software on any Kodi DolbyVision capable media player, that can playback dual layer - 4K DolbyVision Bluray Rips and output DolbyVision metadata.
  • The Apple TV 4K, FireTV 4K Stick / 2019 Cube and new 2019 Nvidia Shield that are all DV capable can only stream 4K DV from iTunes(not on Shield), Netflix, VUDU and very limited Amazon Prime Video titles using DV single layer, player led, streaming profile 5.
  • The Definitive List Of Dolby Vision Titles Available On Netflix, iTunes, Vudu and Amazon Video (click)
  • The rare - DTS-HD HRA (bitstreamed) audio format seems to cause issues across various platforms in combo with Onkyo AVR's.** Fixed with OSMC Kodi and LibreELEC Kodi Krypton.
  • Remote controls can be hit and miss in their reliability and Wireless Bluetooth ones can be subject to bad Radio Frequency interference.
  • The worst affected seems to be the Mini NVIDIA Shield BT remote, with numerous ongoing issues constantly reported as seen in THIS thread (click)
  • An explanation of Bluetooth RF interference issues affecting the Shield and the permanent DIY Hardware fix is in THIS post.
  • The most reliable are the USB dongle WiFi remotes like the Plug n Play MINIX A2 lite or the OSMC Mini remote. Not seen any BT interference reported issues with the ATV 4K remote either.

W. Big Grin


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - noggin - 2018-05-27

So is it confirmed that S905X and S905D impose an 8-bit footprint on a 10-bit HDR (or SDR) signal?  That's a pity if that is the case.  I know lots of HDR displays are using 8-bit panels with processing to hit 10-bit dynamic range, but it strikes me that if you have a choice of a device that delivers a clean 10-bit path rather than 10->8->10 which has to use dither to hide the 8-bit quantisation errors, that's a significant issue to be aware of.  Given that you are using a greater dynamic range with HDR content, the 10 vs 8 bit processing is more of an issue than it would be for an SDR 10-bit source (which is rare in the consumer space)

AIUI that's a significant benefit of the S912 SoC isn't it - as it DOES offer a clean path that doesn't require an 8-bit process somewhere in the chain.  I'm assuming that the Apple TV 4K supporting Dolby Vision means it's a clean path, and have heard no suggestion that the nVidia Shield TV imposes an 8-bit process either?


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - atomizasser - 2018-05-29

Very very interesting topic about issues on 4K HDR.

I've read the post and also other post in libreelec forum but I do not have a clear idea about which is the best device.
So, If i want a:
- DTS-X/Dolby Atmos passthrough
- Best quality image
- Correct HDR and color space autoswitch
- Correct refresh rate
- HDMI CEC
- Fastest LAN/WIFI
- Development suppot!

AppleTV is discarded, no DTS-HD/X support
Zidoo X9S? Problems of color output?
Vero4k, slow CPU and wifi¿
Minix U9-H with libreelec, best option?

What do u think?

Thanks!


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - Orio - 2018-05-29

(2018-05-29, 08:22)atomizasser Wrote: Very very interesting topic about issues on 4K HDR.

I've read the post and also other post in libreelec forum but I do not have a clear idea about which is the best device.
So, If i want a:
- DTS-X/Dolby Atmos passthrough
- Best quality image
- Correct HDR and color space autoswitch
- Correct refresh rate
- HDMI CEC
- Fastest LAN/WIFI
- Development suppot!

AppleTV is discarded, no DTS-HD/X support
Zidoo X9S? Problems of color output?
Vero4k, slow CPU and wifi¿
Minix U9-H with libreelec, best option?

What do u think?

Thanks!
 Also looking for this!
Was looking at the Intel NUC but it lacks good HD-Audio support, as well as HDR support.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - noggin - 2018-05-29

(2018-05-29, 08:22)atomizasser Wrote: Very very interesting topic about issues on 4K HDR.

I've read the post and also other post in libreelec forum but I do not have a clear idea about which is the best device.
So, If i want a:
- DTS-X/Dolby Atmos passthrough
- Best quality image
- Correct HDR and color space autoswitch
- Correct refresh rate
- HDMI CEC
- Fastest LAN/WIFI
- Development suppot!

AppleTV is discarded, no DTS-HD/X support
Zidoo X9S? Problems of color output?
Vero4k, slow CPU and wifi¿
Minix U9-H with libreelec, best option?

What do u think?

Thanks!

The nVidia ShieldTV may be worth a look.  The Rec.709->Rec.2020 gamut conversion it does may be an acceptable replacement for gamut switching, particularly as it is supposed to improve with the current rollout of Oreo.
(I think we need to be careful to distinguish between gamut and colour space - we seem to be using colour space as a catch-all for multiple things)


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wrxtasy - 2018-05-30

(2018-05-29, 19:24)noggin Wrote: The nVidia ShieldTV may be worth a look.  The Rec.709->Rec.2020 gamut conversion it does may be an acceptable replacement for gamut switching, particularly as it is supposed to improve with the current rollout of Oreo.
(I think we need to be careful to distinguish between gamut and colour space - we seem to be using colour space as a catch-all for multiple things)
Potential Shield purchasers may want to keep reading this Oreo thread (click)
And also remember this thread concerning HDR and HD audio inc. Atmos:
- Issues with 4K HDR & HD Audio passthrough if using Ethernet, click HERE for details.

For info - I keep reading Apple TV 4K users utilising "Neural X" audio processing on their AVR's to produce decent quality Atmos like 3D audio.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - timstephens24 - 2018-05-30

(2018-05-30, 01:29)wrxtasy Wrote: For info - I keep reading Apple TV 4K users utilising "Neural X" audio processing on their AVR's to produce decent quality Atmos like 3D audio.

Neural:X only if DTS:X is supported by that device. Dolby has a similar one called "Dolby Surround" but both do a really good job.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - Orio - 2018-05-30

So if I were to choose between a MINIX U9-H and a Inte nuc Gemini Lake for 4k and DTS-HD Audio support. HDR is welcome but not a dealbreaker. 

What would be the best choice?
I want it simple and stable and preferly with Kodi (family friendly)

Thats the 2 options im looking at now, with a budget around 400$


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wrxtasy - 2018-05-31

Simply = an integrated Wireless remote so no more missed button pressings. And if it's DIY = set (settings) once and forget for auto everything.
I get this with LibreELEC on the MINIX U9.
It also has HDMI-CEC control so when I turn the U9 - OFF / ON with the Wireless remote it also turns the TV and AVR - OFF / ON. Works nicely for me.

Intel has no HDMI-CEC control out of the box, but it will be a faster device if you use a SSD and DDR4 RAM. You pay for the privilege.
Intel Windows Kodi would give you what you want, I'm unsure of Intel HD audio passthrough status with Linux or LibreELEC these days.
The Intel Gemini Lake thread would have more info about this.

If it's Plug n (networked) Play you want get a ATV 4K = excellent picture quality, a really slick, family friendly, easy to use GUI and Apps like MrMC of Infuse will give you what you want.
Your DTS-HD capable AVR should easily be able to handle this with the ATV 4K:
5.1 DD/DTS & 7.1 HD audio is loslessly (bit perfect) decoding into 5.1 / 7.1 - 24bit 48kHz LPCM for no loss in Audio quality or downmixed into 5.1 DD


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - noggin - 2018-05-31

(2018-05-31, 06:13)wrxtasy Wrote: 5.1 DD/DTS & 7.1 HD audio is loslessly (bit perfect) decoding into 5.1 / 7.1 - 24bit 48kHz LPCM for no loss in Audio quality or downmixed into 5.1 DD
  
Yep - the ATV copes fine with lossless decode of 48kHz (didn't know it did 24 bit but that's good to know) 5.1/7.1 HD Audio - but AIUI it doesn't support output of 96/192kHz stuff losslessly and downsamples to 48kHz doesn't it? (An issue if you listen to audiophile stuff, or have the Akira 5.1 192kHz Blu-ray Smile )


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - hdmkv - 2018-05-31

(2018-05-30, 02:41)timstephens24 Wrote: Neural:X only if DTS:X is supported by that device. Dolby has a similar one called "Dolby Surround" but both do a really good job.
Are you saying a media player must support DTS:X in order for Neural:X to work? Or did you mean AVR? I assume latter. I use Neural:X with all non Dolby ATMOS and DTS:X sources and the results are quite impressive.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - timstephens24 - 2018-05-31

Yeah, the AVR.  I generally use Neural:X for anything not Atmos/DTS:X like you.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - movie78 - 2018-06-01

(2018-05-31, 19:17)hdmkv Wrote:
(2018-05-30, 02:41)timstephens24 Wrote: Neural:X only if DTS:X is supported by that device. Dolby has a similar one called "Dolby Surround" but both do a really good job.
Are you saying a media player must support DTS:X in order for Neural:X to work? Or did you mean AVR? I assume latter. I use Neural:X with all non Dolby ATMOS and DTS:X sources and the results are quite impressive. 
 Yes, Neural X was release with DTS:X and Dolby Surround was released Dolby ATMOS so if your device doesn't support DTS:X or ATMOS the upmixer codec (Neural X and DTS:X) will not included


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - djnice - 2018-06-04

Where are the players with HiSilicon Hi3798C V200 SoC?


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - noggin - 2018-06-04

(2018-06-04, 10:31)djnice Wrote: Where are the players with HiSilicon Hi3798C V200 SoC?
  
I don't think any of the developers have tried to develop a LibreElec/CoreElec build for them, possibly due to there being no details or Linux drivers for the VPU drivers required for hardware acceleration?

For Android - I guess you can try the standard Android Kodi app...

If they are using an external player (like Zidoo) they will attract less interest I guess - as they aren't using Kodi as their main playback engine?

Plus wrxtasy et al may just not have them - for the above reasons.