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+--- Thread: 4K HDR10 - State of Play - important media player limitations - LAST UPDATE sept 2020 (/showthread.php?tid=332180)
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wesk05 - 2019-06-20
(2019-06-20, 03:04)wrxtasy Wrote: If any of the CoreELEC ODROID N2 owners verified that it could passthrough CLL/FALL Metadata.It does transmit maxFALL/maxCLL correctly. In my quick testing, the only thing that didn't work was VP9 Profile 2 HDR. That plays only in SDR, Rec.709.
Sam mentioned in one of the posts on OSMC forum that it works on Vero 4K, but it didn't work for me.
Additional Info here: HDR InfoFrame
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - djnice - 2019-06-20
(2019-06-20, 07:32)wesk05 Wrote:(2019-06-20, 03:04)wrxtasy Wrote: If any of the CoreELEC ODROID N2 owners verified that it could passthrough CLL/FALL Metadata.It does transmit maxFALL/maxCLL correctly. In my quick testing, the only thing that didn't work was VP9 Profile 2 HDR. That plays only in SDR, Rec.709.
Fine, and what about HDR10+?
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wesk05 - 2019-06-20
(2019-06-20, 08:57)djnice Wrote: Fine, and what about HDR10+?It doesn't. Only HDR10 and HLG works.
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - DarkSphere00 - 2019-06-20
So, if I understood this correctly:
Both the Shield and the ODROID would have the same video quality capabilities when it comes to 4K HDR with HD audio passthrough, and both will be equally capable with SW decoding of Hi10p.
The ODROID however would have these advantages:
- It's more powerful (is it?)
- 1080p content is better because of bad Nvidia upscaling.
- It's Linux, so I could mount my NAS via NFS as storage instead than using DLNA.
Advantages on the Shield side instead would be:
- It's a full Android TV with Android app capabilities and the such.
- Nothing more?
And the OMSC 4K+ too will be on par with the Odroid as soon as an update will bring complete Hi10p support and MaxCLL/MaxFALL metadata.
Did I get this right? Did I forget anything?
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wrxtasy - 2019-06-21
Mostly right.
The AMLogic chipset media players - Vero 4K, ODROID N2 etc running OSMC or CoreELEC will have better support for old VC-1 Bluray Rips vs Android anything.
Deinterlacing for old DVD Rips and deinterlacing of Broadcast OTA TV will be much better as well, see this https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=343959
Networking has always been better with a Linux based OS's, the two mentioned can even be used as SAMBA file servers very easily.
For picture post processing, the ARM Mali G-52 GPU in the N2 is a ripper fior the price paid. It's Anti aliasing (removing jaggies) is even better than the ARM class leader the Apple TV 4K.
If you want Apps, get the Shield. However I still prefer the more powerful Apple TV 4K
If you want a flexible Linux Kodi device with excellent picture quality get the ODROID N2.
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - DarkSphere00 - 2019-06-21
(2019-06-21, 03:07)wrxtasy Wrote: Mostly right.
The AMLogic chipset media players - Vero 4K, ODROID N2 etc running OSMC or CoreELEC will have better support for old VC-1 Bluray Rips vs Android anything.
Deinterlacing for old DVD Rips and deinterlacing of Broadcast OTA TV will be much better as well, see this https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=343959
Networking has always been better with a Linux based OS's, the two mentioned can even be used as SAMBA file servers very easily.
For picture post processing, the ARM Mali G-52 GPU in the N2 is a ripper fior the price paid. It's Anti aliasing (removing jaggies) is even better than the ARM class leader the Apple TV 4K.
If you want Apps, get the Shield. However I still prefer the more powerful Apple TV 4K
If you want a flexible Linux Kodi device with excellent picture quality get the ODROID N2.
That is crystal clear, thank you a lot.
No I don't need apps, my TV already will have Android TV as the OS and it's going to be more than enough for me.
Apple TV in my case would not be a possibility: it doesn't bitstream Atmos tracks from mkvs, and this is the very reason why I need a kodi box even though I already have a 4K Blu-Ray player too.
All I need is the player that provides the better picture, and the Odroid has proven itself to be it; plus it brings the advantages of being a Linux-based machine compared to Android.
Again, thank you very much for your answers, your help has been very precious to me!
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - treboR2Robert - 2019-06-21
(2019-06-18, 22:41)bizuka Wrote: well i'm not a specialist, but i have a 905x and a Rock64.
The rock64 can output 4K HDR exactly like my tv does without a client, all the brightness, its just gorgeous (sometimes the sky shots blinds you!) meanwhile the 905x cant achieve that kind of brightness, (its still ok tho) but its not a perfect experience
i'm sorry for not being "technical"
the devs on the coreelec forum told me that the 922x outputs exactly (in terms of image processing) like the 905x so.. 80bucks for nothing? only for 1080p soft decoding damn that was a good marketing strategy by them!
tested on a samsung ks7000 connected to a marantz 6011.
What OS are you using on the Rock 64 ?
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - treboR2Robert - 2019-06-21
(2019-06-20, 03:05)Sam.Nazarko Wrote:(2019-06-20, 00:46)treboR2Robert Wrote:(2019-06-20, 00:35)Sam.Nazarko Wrote: We have Hi10p working (up to a number of ReFrames now) with HW decoding now.
S
Am I right in assuming the Vero 4k cannot output CLL / FALL metadata though ?
Correct. Currently 3.14 does not do this, but we are moving away from this shortly. We have MaxCLL/MaxFALL working on the hardware on a new stack. We are making a number of changes over the Summer and plan is to roll it out with Hi10, 3D-FP, tone mapping and HDR10+.
Here is full metadata passthrough on 4K +: https://collab.osmc.tv/s/9vPnKXEqXp35E4f
Sam
Very interesting Sam thank you.
By new stack do you mean the new 4.9 kernel ?
Is it correct that the new 4.9 kernel is only available for s905 devices and will never be available for the s912 ?
Will all devices using the new 4.9 kernel like the odroid n2 running CoreELEC be capable of everything you mentioned ?
Thanks
Rob
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - treboR2Robert - 2019-06-21
(2019-06-20, 07:32)wesk05 Wrote:(2019-06-20, 03:04)wrxtasy Wrote: If any of the CoreELEC ODROID N2 owners verified that it could passthrough CLL/FALL Metadata.It does transmit maxFALL/maxCLL correctly. In my quick testing, the only thing that didn't work was VP9 Profile 2 HDR. That plays only in SDR, Rec.709.
Sam mentioned in one of the posts on OSMC forum that it works on Vero 4K, but it didn't work for me.
Where did you get this information from ?
Do you have a hdmi analyser like a fury ?
Could you post some screen shots of the results like @Sam.Nazarko did a couple of posts back.
https://collab.osmc.tv/s/9vPnKXEqXp35E4f
Thank You
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wrxtasy - 2019-06-21
(2019-06-18, 22:41)bizuka Wrote: well i'm not a specialist, but i have a 905x and a Rock64.
the devs on the coreelec forum told me that the 922x outputs exactly (in terms of image processing) like the 905x so.. 80bucks for nothing? only for 1080p soft decoding damn that was a good marketing strategy by them!
tested on a samsung ks7000 connected to a marantz 6011.
That is not what the CE devs have said at all.
I have a swag of ARM devices to compare the new ARM Mali G-52 GPU in the N2 with.
Picture processing and image output quality is better with this new GPU vs the pretty old ARM Mali-450 GPU in the AML S905 series chipsets.
The S912 picture quality is better vs the older S905 too.
The very noticeable thing is S922X vs S905 chipset speed. It's noticeably snappier and smoother.
For existing users upgrading, is it worth it ?
Well only they can answer.
For new device purchasers, I don't see why you would buy old tech, unless it was dirt cheap or had very good specialised after sales support.
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - djnice - 2019-06-21
(2019-06-21, 03:07)wrxtasy Wrote: For picture post processing, the ARM Mali G-52 GPU in the N2 is a ripper fior the price paid. It's Anti aliasing (removing jaggies) is even better than the ARM class leader the Apple TV 4K.This statement from S922X datasheet: "Smart sharpness with SuperScaler technology including de-contouring, de-ring, LTI, CTI, dejaggy, peaking"
But in CoreELEC, the SuperScaler is disabled. Any other post processing working in the N2 which affects the picture quality?
I compared it with the S912 and didn't notice the difference in PQ.
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - DarkSphere00 - 2019-06-21
(2019-06-20, 07:32)wesk05 Wrote:(2019-06-20, 03:04)wrxtasy Wrote: If any of the CoreELEC ODROID N2 owners verified that it could passthrough CLL/FALL Metadata.It does transmit maxFALL/maxCLL correctly. In my quick testing, the only thing that didn't work was VP9 Profile 2 HDR. That plays only in SDR, Rec.709.
I'm curious too: how did you check this?
Is there an easy way I will be able too to check if that works properly when it'll arrive to me?
I mainly watch movies over a projector so that would be of most importance to me.
Thank you!
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - Sam.Nazarko - 2019-06-21
(2019-06-21, 04:10)treboR2Robert Wrote:(2019-06-20, 03:05)Sam.Nazarko Wrote:(2019-06-20, 00:46)treboR2Robert Wrote: Am I right in assuming the Vero 4k cannot output CLL / FALL metadata though ?
Correct. Currently 3.14 does not do this, but we are moving away from this shortly. We have MaxCLL/MaxFALL working on the hardware on a new stack. We are making a number of changes over the Summer and plan is to roll it out with Hi10, 3D-FP, tone mapping and HDR10+.
Here is full metadata passthrough on 4K +: https://collab.osmc.tv/s/9vPnKXEqXp35E4f
Sam
Very interesting Sam thank you.
By new stack do you mean the new 4.9 kernel ?
Is it correct that the new 4.9 kernel is only available for s905 devices and will never be available for the s912 ?
Will all devices using the new 4.9 kernel like the odroid n2 running CoreELEC be capable of everything you mentioned ?
Thanks
Rob
We will move to 4.9 shortly
Then 4.19 early 2020.
I haven’t been following progress with S912, but the Mali blobs are still not licensed and I don’t think they ever will be.
Sam
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - Sam.Nazarko - 2019-06-21
(2019-06-20, 07:32)wesk05 Wrote:(2019-06-20, 03:04)wrxtasy Wrote: If any of the CoreELEC ODROID N2 owners verified that it could passthrough CLL/FALL Metadata.It does transmit maxFALL/maxCLL correctly. In my quick testing, the only thing that didn't work was VP9 Profile 2 HDR. That plays only in SDR, Rec.709.
Sam mentioned in one of the posts on OSMC forum that it works on Vero 4K, but it didn't work for me.
You need a test build for now. We will update the stack this Summer.
Sam
RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - bizuka - 2019-06-21
(2019-06-21, 04:01)treboR2Robert Wrote:i'm using libreelec nightly builds.(2019-06-18, 22:41)bizuka Wrote: well i'm not a specialist, but i have a 905x and a Rock64.
The rock64 can output 4K HDR exactly like my tv does without a client, all the brightness, its just gorgeous (sometimes the sky shots blinds you!) meanwhile the 905x cant achieve that kind of brightness, (its still ok tho) but its not a perfect experience
i'm sorry for not being "technical"
the devs on the coreelec forum told me that the 922x outputs exactly (in terms of image processing) like the 905x so.. 80bucks for nothing? only for 1080p soft decoding damn that was a good marketing strategy by them!
tested on a samsung ks7000 connected to a marantz 6011.
What OS are you using on the Rock 64 ?