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RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - Sam.Nazarko - 2018-08-09

(2018-08-09, 00:41)wesk05 Wrote:
(2018-08-08, 14:00)Mount81 Wrote: It would be informal and clarifying to read more specific and concrete regarding the Amlogic vs proper 10bit output issue. The info fragment I'we found so far were very contradictious and mind-scramblingly evading or mystifying oppositely any assurance. 
And what is the source of your presumption, that ATV 4K (or just the MrMC) has some limitations with HDR output?

I know this whole thing about S905X not having true 10-bit processing started with a comment from BayLibre developer. I have checked the output on Vero 4K and it does seem to have a true 10-bit output (or is employing a magical dithering algorithm).

If you are sure that your TV can do proper 10-bit rendering, then you can quite easily check whether the output of a device is true 10-bit or not with the Quants2D test patterns - http://test.full.band/index.html. You really don't need to have any expensive equipment to do this.

If it's true 10-bit, you would see 450 distinct shades of gray squares (this would suggest 1-bit LSB accuracy; you will need an analyzer to confirm it). Something like shown below. In this picture, I have changed the brightness to visualize the distinct squares.

Image

If the output is truncated/dithered 8-bit, then you would see something like shown below:
Image

As for the question regarding ATV 4K, it has been known for quite some time now that tvOS replaces the original HDR10 metadata with its own generic metadata. This could potentially alter the tonemapping on at least some displays that actually considers HDR10 metadata.  
Thanks. We're getting claims that Vero 4K / 4K + can't do 'proper' 10-bit quite a bit now.
I sent two units out to two BayLibre developers that are involved in mainlining efforts, so they should have the capacity to test.

(Just to clarify): we're not of the opinion that there is an issue after extensive testing. 

Sam


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wesk05 - 2018-08-09

(2018-08-09, 01:27)noggin Wrote: This makes me ask two questions :
1. Does it do this for Netflix HDR10 or Amazon Prime HDR10 (Assuming they have varying HDR metadata show by show, movie by movie)
2. Presumably it doesn't do this for Dolby Vision - as Dolby wouldn't approve a platform that did (and it nullifies one of the main USPs of Dolby - dynamic metadata?) 

It doesn't do this for Netflix or Amazon. With Netflix, the maxFALL/CLL changes with scene. It is possible that this is happening because the bitstream may be actually Dolby Vision which is being output as HDR10 for non-Dolby Vision displays. Amazon HDR shows seem to have static maxFALL/CLL.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wrxtasy - 2018-08-09

(2018-08-09, 04:02)wesk05 Wrote: It doesn't do this for Netflix or Amazon. With Netflix, the maxFALL/CLL changes with scene. It is possible that this is happening because the bitstream may be actually Dolby Vision which is being output as HDR10 for non-Dolby Vision displays. Amazon HDR shows seem to have static maxFALL/CLL.
Interesting, so for Netflix it seems like a dynamic HDR for non DV displays aka HDR0+


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - Mount81 - 2018-08-09

wesk05: What particular test pattern(s) do we have to get for the best and most perceptible testing from that website? There are a tons of Quants2D test files there, so can you tell which one did you use? I will post then on another Forum Thread dedicated to Amlogic devices used with CE and LE OS and see if I can find some users to test it.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - rexian - 2018-08-09

(2018-08-09, 01:58)wrxtasy Wrote:
(2018-08-08, 04:11)rexian Wrote: Does anyone know if HDR is supported on Fire TV 3 (4k) for HDR10 MKVs with Kodi? Just got one after hearing refresh rate issue has been fixed (and this is a decent hardware for $35). Thanks!
It very likely does HDR10 with Kodi. Untested personally tho. No idea if auto refresh switching is working or not.

The FireTV gen3 uses a AMLogic S905Z SoC, and that S9xx chipset usually switches from SDR <--> HDR automatically independent of the OS used. The Kernel handles such matters. 
 Thanks wrxtasy. Will know in couple of days when it arrives.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wesk05 - 2018-08-09

(2018-08-09, 05:54)Mount81 Wrote: wesk05: What particular test pattern(s) do we have to get for the best and most perceptible testing from that website? There are a tons of Quants2D test files there, so can you tell which one did you use? I will post then on another Forum Thread dedicated to Amlogic devices used with CE and LE OS and see if I can find some users to test it.
You can use any of the BT2020 or HDR10 patterns in the Quants2D folder. I primarily check with the 96-512 patterns. If you are testing with HDR10 test patterns, it may be good to stick with test patterns lower than 640.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wesk05 - 2018-08-09

(2018-08-08, 04:11)rexian Wrote: Does anyone know if HDR is supported on Fire TV 3 (4k) for HDR10 MKVs with Kodi? Just got one after hearing refresh rate issue has been fixed (and this is a decent hardware for $35). Thanks!
 With the latest firmware, refresh rate and resolution switching works in Kodi 18 Beta builds and also MrMC. Refresh rate switching also works in Amazon Prime, but not in Netflix. It looks like there are color space issues. 10-bit output is always associated with BT.2020.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - wesk05 - 2018-08-09

(2018-08-09, 04:07)wrxtasy Wrote: Interesting, so for Netflix it seems like a dynamic HDR for non DV displays aka HDR0+ 
It kind of looks like that, but it's not for all shows.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - jotenakis - 2018-08-09

what about odroid c2 ? compatible 4k HDR10 ?


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - rexian - 2018-08-09

(2018-08-09, 08:43)wesk05 Wrote:
(2018-08-08, 04:11)rexian Wrote: Does anyone know if HDR is supported on Fire TV 3 (4k) for HDR10 MKVs with Kodi? Just got one after hearing refresh rate issue has been fixed (and this is a decent hardware for $35). Thanks!
 With the latest firmware, refresh rate and resolution switching works in Kodi 18 Beta builds and also MrMC. Refresh rate switching also works in Amazon Prime, but not in Netflix. It looks like there are color space issues. 10-bit output is always associated with BT.2020. 
Can't wait for it to arrive Smile


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - noggin - 2018-08-10

(2018-08-09, 14:25)jotenakis Wrote: what about odroid c2 ? compatible 4k HDR10 ?
 The ODroid C2 is based on the S905 (not S905X or S912).  The S905 doesn't have HDR10 compatibility (so won't insert HDR10 metadata into the HDMI output) - and AIUI is limited to an 8-bit output path (though it can decode 10-bit)  I don't know if it includes HDR->SDR conversion (to allow playback of 10-bit HDR as 8-bit SDR with correct tone mapping to avoid washed out pictures)

TL;DR - C2 is not HDR compatible, but it's very good as an SDR playback device.  (Pity Hardkernel haven't come up with an S905X board)


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - rexian - 2018-08-15

(2018-08-09, 23:08)rexian Wrote:
(2018-08-09, 08:43)wesk05 Wrote:
(2018-08-08, 04:11)rexian Wrote: Does anyone know if HDR is supported on Fire TV 3 (4k) for HDR10 MKVs with Kodi? Just got one after hearing refresh rate issue has been fixed (and this is a decent hardware for $35). Thanks!
 With the latest firmware, refresh rate and resolution switching works in Kodi 18 Beta builds and also MrMC. Refresh rate switching also works in Amazon Prime, but not in Netflix. It looks like there are color space issues. 10-bit output is always associated with BT.2020.  
Can't wait for it to arrive Smile 
I can confirm that Kodi 17.6 on Fire TV 3 (w/ latest update) plays HDR 10 videos on an LG OLED. I have tried several samples from LG, Sony and Samsung and the HDR indicator on the TV lit up every time. For some samples the playback wasn't very smooth... possibly due to high bitrate and the wifi signal being blocked by the TV... having to buy another dongle for ethernet is a stupid product decision but Kodi behaved well for the most part. Only issue I saw was that even for 23 or 24Hz videos, the display was constantly 59/60Hz and there was no option to change it to 23 / 24Hz in Settings. Will try Leia later and see if this is still a problem.


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - viperlogic - 2018-08-15

(2018-08-15, 00:21)rexian Wrote:
(2018-08-09, 23:08)rexian Wrote:   
 Only issue I saw was that even for 23 or 24Hz videos, the display was constantly 59/60Hz and there was no option to change it to 23 / 24Hz in Settings. Will try Leia later and see if this is still a problem. 
 You can force it in advancedsettings.xml. I had to do it on my Vero 4K as my projector doesn't support 4K @ 59/60Hz


RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - noggin - 2018-08-15

Not sure if this is of interest - but Netflix have released some of their test content in various formats here https://medium.com/netflix-techblog/engineers-making-movies-aka-open-source-test-content-f21363ea3781 

http://download.opencontent.netflix.com/?prefix=TechblogAssets/Sparks/encodes/ Has DV, HDR10 and SDR encodes.  The DV may be of interest as it is presumably single-stream not dual-stream?  

Interestingly it's also 59.94p - I'm not aware of Netflix releasing content at frame rates >29.97Hz on their main platform.

Sparks Media Info :

DV (1.0, dvhe.stn, BL+RPU - Base Level + Reference Processing Unit) dvhe = Dolby Vision HEVC, stn s = single layer, t = 10 bit, n = not compatible with other dynamic range standards (i.e. not HDR10 or SDR compatible - I guess partially because this is single layer?)
Code:
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Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-04-21 05:52:55
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Default                                  : Yes
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Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-04-21 05:52:55
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Encoded date                             : UTC 2018-04-21 05:52:55
Tagged date                              : UTC 2018-04-21 05:52:55



RE: 4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations. - rexian - 2018-08-17

(2018-08-15, 09:35)viperlogic Wrote:
(2018-08-15, 00:21)rexian Wrote:
(2018-08-09, 23:08)rexian Wrote:  
 Only issue I saw was that even for 23 or 24Hz videos, the display was constantly 59/60Hz and there was no option to change it to 23 / 24Hz in Settings. Will try Leia later and see if this is still a problem.  
 You can force it in advancedsettings.xml. I had to do it on my Vero 4K as my projector doesn't support 4K @ 59/60Hz 
Found an option in Fire TV under Settings > Display & Sound > Display > Match Original Frame Rate. Set this to ON and Kodi debug started showing frame rate around 23/24. Wonder why the default is off. I did notice a micro-stutter every few seconds with this option... as if there was a 24 -> 60 pull down of some sort. Even the audio would cut off for a quarter second... will try removing 17.6 and installing Leia this weekend


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