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2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - Printable Version

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--- Thread: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K (/showthread.php?tid=336151)



RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - hdmkv - 2018-12-07

Is it even possible to rip to MKV w/DV dual stream intact? Thought it wasn't possible as yet, only w/full ISO or m2ts?


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-08

(2018-12-07, 23:20)DaMacFunkin Wrote: Hi they are dual stream, there is no way to rip a 4K DV blu ray to single stream, both streams are needed.
Yes. Can the dual-stream DV be ripped to MKV with the DV 'helper' stream remaining intact?
Quote:I figured FTV4k stick would be able do this as a DV device, as you say the ATV 4K can play them back.

I thought the Apple TV 4K was playing single-stream DV files (examples of which are available) in the same way it can stream Netflix in DV, not dual-stream DV from UHD BD rips. I've not read of any Kodi (or fork of Kodi) playing these on any hardware?


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - wrxtasy - 2018-12-08

There is not even a standardised way of muxing dual layer DV UHD Bluray Rips into a .mkv file.

No media playback software on the market that can playback Dual Layer DV Bluray .iso’s either. It’s all proprietary Dolby tech.

All the DV streaming content from Netflix, Prime etc. is using a specific DV streaming profile.

Pre 2019 "Master Series" - Sony DV capable 4K HDR TV's were so woefully underpowered Sony had to get Dolby to develop a special Low Latency DV profile for them to offload DV picture processing from the TV's to the DV capable media or UHD Bluray players. LG's DV capable TV's had no such problems.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-08

(2018-12-08, 00:46)wrxtasy Wrote: Pre 2019 "Master Series" - Sony DV capable 4K HDR TV's were so woefully underpowered Sony had to get Dolby to develop a special Low Latency DV profile for them to offload DV picture processing from the TV's to the DV capable media or UHD Bluray players. LG's DV capable TV's had no such problems.
  
Eh?

It's not the picture processing that was offloaded surely? Isn't it that the original Dolby Vision standard pre-dated HDMI having a dynamic metadata signalling standard. AIUI Dolby added a hacky workaround that 'tunnelled' the dynamic metadata 'inside' the video content (they can tunnel it in HDMI 1.4b and 2.0 AIUI) to bypass the HDMI standard at that time not having a dynamic metadata options. As such you need to be able to decode the embedded data 'hidden' within the video stream. I think it's become clear that Sony TVs don't implement Dolby Vision that way (whether it's because they can't decode the tunnelled data or just realised a better solution was now possible I don't know. I'm not sure it's a valid jump to say they are 'woefully underpowered' just because they don't implement tunnelling?. That's not a picture processing function per se - it's effectively a DV data decoding function.

However the HDMI standards body had created a dynamic metadata standard for HDMI 2.1 that allowed Dolby to not require that the dynamic metadata be tunnelled within the video signal, and could be sent over an open standard. This clearly made more sense, and required less processing for the TV (and presumably will also require less processing in the player too) This standard can be added to HDMI 2.0b displays - and AIUI that is what Sony and Dolby are effectively doing ?

AIUI the Sony TVs are still implementing the DV picture processing that actually has an impact on the TV picture you are watching - the only processing that Low Latency mode removed was the tunnelling of metadata, which was pointless once we had a proper standard that removed the need for it?  

@wesk05 am I making sense?

Or is it that LLDV moves the Dolby Vision Display Management from the display to the player?

**EDIT - given that the Sony Netflix app plays DV natively in the TV without an external player - then the Display Management processing (which is the picture processing for DV that matters in visual terms) must still be in the display?  It's just the HDMI path for the metadata that is different between the original DV-over-HDMI and the new Low Latency DV-over-HDMI system isn't it? ***

Or is this tied to the Dolby Vision standard change that added Minimum Enhancement Layer support?


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - Photonboy - 2018-12-08

H264 deinterlacing?
Just curious but WHERE are you getting H264 that is interlaced instead of progressive? I just don't see why anybody would do that. Any device that can play H264 content can do it progressively anyway so why add the complication of interlacing that can create issues when merging the fields again?


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - Photonboy - 2018-12-08

4K over wi-fi:
I tested the 4K Fire TV with my 5GHz network (Archer C7 router). Router in basement and stick on 2nd floor. This stick has very, very good wi-fi. Here's some info:

1) 5GHz network shows as barely connected in 4K Fire TV setup (I forget the word but a better 5GHz network would give a much better signal)
2) 58Mbps, 4K video played fine despite this weak connection
3) 120Mbps, 4K video had buffering issues
4) 4K BluRay I compressed was only 12Mbps (HEVC/H265) but looked about same as original
5) 4K Netflix is probably less than 10Mbps

*So the 4K Fire TV is very capable to play back 4K content as long as the bitrate isn't too high for your network. Anything streamed over the Internet is probably compressed enough it's a non-issue.

Unless you are streaming UNCOMPRESSED, 4K BLURAY or similar you are likely to not have issues if you have 5GHz. If you only have 2.4GHz I can only report that 58Mbps was too much for me but 30Mbps is probably doable (again depending on router, obstructions and distance).


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - Photonboy - 2018-12-08

Update:
4K Netflix range is 8Mbps to 16Mbps... that's actually doable on a crappy 2.4GHz network so as long as the Internet download bandwidth is sufficient most 2.4GHz or 5GHz wi-fi networks should be fine.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-08

(2018-12-08, 07:27)Photonboy Wrote: H264 deinterlacing?
Just curious but WHERE are you getting H264 that is interlaced instead of progressive? I just don't see why anybody would do that. Any device that can play H264 content can do it progressively anyway so why add the complication of interlacing that can create issues when merging the fields again?
Interlaced h.264 is used for Live and Recorded TV in lots of countries (the US is unusual in using MPEG2 for HDTV - almost all of Europe is h.264 for HDTV broadcasting)

Also because Blu-ray doesn't include support for 1080p25 (just 1080p24) lots of European TV drama series shot 1080p25 are released as 1080i25 interlaced Blu-rays.  EPlus there are native interlaced 1080i25 releases (entertainment shows, music concerts etc.)


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-08

(2018-12-08, 07:46)Photonboy Wrote: Update:
4K Netflix range is 8Mbps to 16Mbps... that's actually doable on a crappy 2.4GHz network so as long as the Internet download bandwidth is sufficient most 2.4GHz or 5GHz wi-fi networks should be fine.

Netflix can go higher than 16Mbs according to my Apple TV 4K developer HUD. Looks as if it won't go above 22Mbs though.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - DaMacFunkin - 2018-12-08

(2018-12-08, 00:46)wrxtasy Wrote: There is not even a standardised way of muxing dual layer DV UHD Bluray Rips into a .mkv file.

No media playback software on the market that can playback Dual Layer DV Bluray .iso’s either. It’s all proprietary Dolby tech.

All the DV streaming content from Netflix, Prime etc. is using a specific DV streaming profile.

Pre 2019 "Master Series" - Sony DV capable 4K HDR TV's were so woefully underpowered Sony had to get Dolby to develop a special Low Latency DV profile for them to offload DV picture processing from the TV's to the DV capable media or UHD Bluray players. LG's DV capable TV's had no such problems.
Sorry my bad then, I just presumed that because dvdfab etc would mix out the second video stream in a DV blu ray that that was how it was working on the Apple TV.

So is there a a way to create a single stream DV file from UHD blu ray?

Thanks.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - DaMacFunkin - 2018-12-08

Ps as I says, given the AV synch it is a mute point any way.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-08

(2018-12-08, 10:59)DaMacFunkin Wrote:
(2018-12-08, 00:46)wrxtasy Wrote: There is not even a standardised way of muxing dual layer DV UHD Bluray Rips into a .mkv file.

No media playback software on the market that can playback Dual Layer DV Bluray .iso’s either. It’s all proprietary Dolby tech.

All the DV streaming content from Netflix, Prime etc. is using a specific DV streaming profile.

Pre 2019 "Master Series" - Sony DV capable 4K HDR TV's were so woefully underpowered Sony had to get Dolby to develop a special Low Latency DV profile for them to offload DV picture processing from the TV's to the DV capable media or UHD Bluray players. LG's DV capable TV's had no such problems.
Sorry my bad then, I just presumed that because dvdfab etc would mix out the second video stream in a DV blu ray that that was how it was working on the Apple TV.

So is there a a way to create a single stream DV file from UHD blu ray?

Thanks.  

Not available to mere mortals. (There may be some high-end proprietary Dolby mastering software that allows for this - but there's nothing available to general Kodi users)


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - JiSiN - 2018-12-09

(2018-12-08, 07:39)Photonboy Wrote: 4K over wi-fi:
I tested the 4K Fire TV with my 5GHz network (Archer C7 router). Router in basement and stick on 2nd floor. This stick has very, very good wi-fi. Here's some info:

1) 5GHz network shows as barely connected in 4K Fire TV setup (I forget the word but a better 5GHz network would give a much better signal)
2) 58Mbps, 4K video played fine despite this weak connection
3) 120Mbps, 4K video had buffering issues
4) 4K BluRay I compressed was only 12Mbps (HEVC/H265) but looked about same as original
5) 4K Netflix is probably less than 10Mbps

*So the 4K Fire TV is very capable to play back 4K content as long as the bitrate isn't too high for your network. Anything streamed over the Internet is probably compressed enough it's a non-issue.

Unless you are streaming UNCOMPRESSED, 4K BLURAY or similar you are likely to not have issues if you have 5GHz. If you only have 2.4GHz I can only report that 58Mbps was too much for me but 30Mbps is probably doable (again depending on router, obstructions and distance).
@Photonboy thx for sharing Smile
Have you tried a Speedtest on your FireTV 4K?

I installed the Firefox Browser and went on fast.com to see what kind of speed can I reach from a Netflix-Server in my area.
Download Speed was most of the time around 500Mbit/s.
 Today i went to my friends home with my FireTV 4K Stick...
Same speedtest reach "only" about 250Mbit/s which is of course enough for all kind of content.

So i tested a bunch of content (Streamed from my NAS to his Home via Kodi (WebDAV)).
All the Videos we tested played smoothly... even the HDR Sample Videos from the Web.
So our finaly test was "Game.of.Thrones.S01E01.Winter.Is.Coming.2160p.UHD.BluRay.REMUX.HDR.HEVC.Atmos-EPSiLON" a 25GB File for 1h runtime.
no hiccups or stuttering or rebuffering... played smoothly.

Note: My friends ISP is considered one of the bad ones in Switzerland.

btw this might also be useful to know: https://help.netflix.com/en/node/306

And More information about the Game of Thrones Video-File:
Filename.......: Game.of.Thrones.S01E01.Winter.Is.Coming.2160p.UHD.BluRay.REMUX.HDR.HEVC.Atmos-EPSiLON.mkv
FileSize.......: 25.3 GiB
Duration.......: 1 h 1 min

Video
Codec..........: HEVC  Main [email protected]@high
Resolution.....: 3840x2160
Aspect ratio...: 16:9
Bit rate.......: 51.7 Mb/s
Frame rate.....: 23.976 fps

Audio
Language.......: English
Channels.......: Object Based / 8 CH
Format.........: TrueHD
Bit rate.......: 5 056 kb/s
(Dolby Atmos/TrueHD Audio / 7.1-Atmos / 48 kHz / 5696 kbps / 24-bit)

Audio (#2)
Language.......: English
Channels.......: 6 CH
Format.........: AC3
Bit rate.......: 640 kb/s
(Compatibility Track / Dolby Digital Audio / 5.1-EX / 48 kHz / 640 kbps)

Audio (#3)
Language.......: English
Channels.......: 6 CH
Format.........: AC3
Bit rate.......: 448 kb/s
(Commentary by creators/executive producers/writers David Benioff and D.B. Weiss)

and a ton of Subtitle....


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - cmaxwell - 2018-12-09

(2018-12-08, 11:00)DaMacFunkin Wrote: Ps as I says, given the AV synch it is a mute point any way.

This.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - DaMacFunkin - 2018-12-09

(2018-12-08, 12:53)noggin Wrote:
(2018-12-08, 10:59)DaMacFunkin Wrote:
(2018-12-08, 00:46)wrxtasy Wrote: There is not even a standardised way of muxing dual layer DV UHD Bluray Rips into a .mkv file.

No media playback software on the market that can playback Dual Layer DV Bluray .iso’s either. It’s all proprietary Dolby tech.

All the DV streaming content from Netflix, Prime etc. is using a specific DV streaming profile.

Pre 2019 "Master Series" - Sony DV capable 4K HDR TV's were so woefully underpowered Sony had to get Dolby to develop a special Low Latency DV profile for them to offload DV picture processing from the TV's to the DV capable media or UHD Bluray players. LG's DV capable TV's had no such problems.
Sorry my bad then, I just presumed that because dvdfab etc would mix out the second video stream in a DV blu ray that that was how it was working on the Apple TV.

So is there a a way to create a single stream DV file from UHD blu ray?

Thanks.  

Not available to mere mortals. (There may be some high-end proprietary Dolby mastering software that allows for this - but there's nothing available to general Kodi users)
So how are Apple TV users re-muxing their streams to be able to playback in DV?


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