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--- Thread: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K (/showthread.php?tid=336151)



RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-14

(2018-12-13, 23:53)testphase Wrote:
(2018-12-13, 23:36)xpr982539 Wrote: I was able to get the FW update just now :-)

I'm having some general issues with Kodi Leia RC2 though.  Here are the tests I've performed this evening.

Fire TV stick plugged into Denon Receiver 4K input.General GUI :
TV displays 3840x2160 60Hz

Amazon Prime :
Playing Grand Tour 1080p version.  TV reports 3840x2160 @ 25Hz.
Playing Grand Tour UHD stream, TV shows 3840x2160 24Hz HDR10.  Looks great.

iPlayer :
I can watch Dynasties in UHD.  TV reports 2840x2160 60Hz HDR HLG (but colours are dull).

Smart YouTube TV :
Watching a 4K 30fps video, TV reports 3840x2160 60Hz.  Looks good, but frame rate incorrect on TV.
Watching a 4K 60fps HDR video, TV reports 3840x2160 60Hz HDR10.  Looks great.

Kodi 18 RC2 :
Settings as per Hitcher's post #99

General GUI res set to 1920x1080.

4K HDR switches to 3840x2160p at 24Hz.  But HDR doesn't work (at least on the 1 file I've used for this test), so colours are muted & dull.
4K non HDR switches to 24Hz.

1080p content - frame rate doesn't change to 24 Hz, sits at 60Hz.
720p content, TV reports 1920x1080p @ 60Hz.

If I add the 1920x1080p formats to the whitelist, 4K content displays as 1920x1080 24Hz (and HDR still doesn't work for HDR title).

Fire TV stick plugged directly into TV
Exact same results as above.

Note that with the Minix U1 I have (CoreElec 8.95.6), resolution & frame rate switching works perfectly.  Just doesn't handle 4K HDR with its basic S905.
If I could get the Fire TV Stick 4K to play nicely with Kodi, I'd be a happy chappy.

Any pointers?  I have read through the entire thread, but of course may have missed a few things.

I'd like to have the Fire TV Stick 4K plugged into the AVR, so I'm going to set it back up like that for now since direct to TV didn't change things.  That takes the AVR out of the equation.  Must be a Kodi / Fire Stick issue.
the 4k Stick works perfectly with my Sony xf9005.hdr 24hz also without issues.
What TV are you using?  

I have a 49XF9005 and have noticed very similar issues to the OP.  It's routed through a Denon AVR - but so are all my other media players (ATV 4K, nVidia Shield TV, Minix U9-H, Raspberry Pi 3B+, Vero 4K etc.)

I'll re-run the same tests with the latest firmware.

Last time I checked with my HD Fury Vertex (which tells me resolution, frame rate, gamut, HDR/SDR format and metadata for its sources) iPlayer was 60Hz not 50Hz, Netflix wasn't switching frame-rates based on source frame rate, 2160p23.976 HDR stuff was output as 1080p23.976 HDR etc.

As the Amazon Fire TV 4K doesn't Auto-frame rate switch based on video content, and instead requires on the player application to request a change of the output frame rate, apps need to be written to do this (AIUI the Apple TV 4K has a similar 'tell me the frame rate of this content' approach I believe - but wider app support for it?)


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-14

Here are my observations with a Fire TV Stick 4K connected to a Sony 49XF9005 via a Denon AVR X2400H and an HD Fury Vertex (which tells me a lot about the HDMI signals being fed to the Denon)

Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K is running Software Version Fire OS 6.2.5.8.

Display / Audio settings are :
Display
Video Resolution : Auto (up to 4K)
Match Original Frame Rate : On
Colour Depth : Up to 12 bits
Colour Format : YCbCr
Calibrate Display : No Scale
Dynamic Range Settings : Adaptive

Audio 
Surround Sound : Best Available 

The default gui output is : 2160p 59.94 BT709 12 bit 4:2:2 YCbCr (593MHz HDMI clock with HDCP 2.2) and with DD+ Audio

iPlayer
UHD stuff, like Dynasties, which should be output at 2160p25 or 2160p50 Rec 2020 HLG is output as 2160p59.94 Rec 709 SDR 4:2:2 YCbCr.  The colours look drab and washed out. Forcing my TV into Rec 2020 and HLG mode it looks much better - but has the classic '25p at 60p' motion artefacts.
My guess is that the iPlayer app has yet to be rewritten to trigger the frame rate changing (you don't get the 'Adjusting Frame Rate...' message you get in Prime Video), and also I suspect that there isn't a flag to switch the HDMI output flag to Rec 2020 being sent to the OS either?
(Interesting that the iPlayer menu also looks horrible when you overlay it on output that is supposed to be UHD Rec 2020 output - so the app itself appears to be switching internally to Rec 2020 for the GUI)
(Conclusion - no frame rate switching or gamut and EOTF switching implemented)

Netflix
Lost In Space is shot 2160p23.976 and available in at least HDR10 or DV on Netflix.
It's output as 2160p59.94 Dolby Vision in Rec 2020 YCbCr 422 12 bit.  So the colour gamut and output EOTF is correctly set, but the frame rate isn't adjusted.
1080p25 HD SDR Netflix content (like most European TV drama) is also output at 59.94Hz in Netflix.  The SDR EOTF and Rec 709 gamut is correctly signalled.
(Conclusion - no frame rate switching, but gamut and EOTF switching implemented)

Amazon Prime Video
Jack Ryan is 2160p23.976 and available in at least HDR or DV on Netflix.
It's output at 2160p23.976 12bit 4:2:2 Rec 2020 Dolby Vision - after an adjusting frame rate message.  This is the only content that is played correctly so far.

If I could find Grand Tour in UHD on my Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K I'd report whether it was output at 2160p25 or p50 with HDR.  However I can only find the HD version - which is output at 2160p25 BT 709 4:2:2 12-bit SDR...
(Conclusion : Frame rate, gamut and EOTF switching enabled)


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - Caramba69 - 2018-12-14

DAZN is also not changing framerate automatically. I hope the apps will implement this soon.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - xpr982539 - 2018-12-14

(2018-12-14, 00:24)noggin Wrote:  Dynasties UHD on iPlayer is 2160/25p HLG Rec 2020. It should be output 2160/50p Rec 2020 SDR or HLG (HLG is backwards compatible with SDR)
Very few iPlayer platforms apart from Smart TV internal players are correctly signalling HLG... 
Is anyone else able to view Dynasties in UHD HLG via the FireTV Stick?  Is your TV showing good output, or like mine with the dull colours?
Using the Smart TV internal app the colours seems better, although still not as saturated as I would expect.
I will fill out the UHD trial report for BBC and recommend they use HDR10!


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - xpr982539 - 2018-12-14

(2018-12-14, 13:36)noggin Wrote: Amazon Prime Video
Jack Ryan is 2160p23.976 and available in at least HDR or DV on Netflix.
It's output at 2160p23.976 12bit 4:2:2 Rec 2020 Dolby Vision - after an adjusting frame rate message.  This is the only content that is played correctly so far.

If I could find Grand Tour in UHD on my Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K I'd report whether it was output at 2160p25 or p50 with HDR.  However I can only find the HD version - which is output at 2160p25 BT 709 4:2:2 12-bit SDR...
(Conclusion : Frame rate, gamut and EOTF switching enabled)
Thanks for the update.
I noticed the same thing with the iPlayer app on Firestick - GUI colours washed out until you cease watching, so expect you are correct about the switching.

As for Grand Tour, I found it in 4k somehow, so it is now on my recent list.  However I cannot figure out how I initially found it because I can't do so now when searching!  However it seems to be playing correctly (Season 1 at 24Hz, season 5 at 25Hz I think it was, both HDR10).
I have my FireStick 4K set to RGB.  Is YCbCr the better option.  TV supports it fine.  Would that be better for Kodi?


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-14

(2018-12-14, 13:51)xpr982539 Wrote:
(2018-12-14, 00:24)noggin Wrote:  Dynasties UHD on iPlayer is 2160/25p HLG Rec 2020. It should be output 2160/50p Rec 2020 SDR or HLG (HLG is backwards compatible with SDR)
Very few iPlayer platforms apart from Smart TV internal players are correctly signalling HLG... 
Is anyone else able to view Dynasties in UHD HLG via the FireTV Stick?  Is your TV showing good output, or like mine with the dull colours?   

As per my report above - Dynasties looks to be output as Rec 709 SDR. The source content is Rec 2020 HDR HLG. The colours are dull because the iPlayer/FireTV Stick aren't working together properly to flag Rec 2020 colour gamut (I think the output is Rec 2020 YCbCr but flagged as Rec 709 gamut primaries, so much duller.) If I force the TV into Rec 2020 colour space the colours look fine.

As HLG is backwards compatible with SDR (within the same colour gamut) the change between HDR HLG and SDR is less noticeable than correctly setting the colour gamut - but you do see the HDR detail appear. (HDR10 Rec 2020 displayed as SDR Rec 2020 looks far worse than HLG Rec 2020 displayed as SDR Rec 2020)
Quote:Using the Smart TV internal app the colours seems better, although still not as saturated as I would expect.
I will fill out the UHD trial report for BBC and recommend they use HDR10! 
  
The BBC invented HLG (along with NHK in Japan) and it's their standard production and distribution format for HDR content. It solves major issues in production that HDR10 introduces - and is also the standard now being used for HDR broadcast in the US. There is very little chance the BBC will create an Amazon Fire TV specific HDR10 stream to run alongside their HLG streams - the BBC's whole approach to HDR is to avoid HDR10-style Display Referenced Perceptive Quantization (i.e. absolute light levels defined per pixel), and instead go for Scene Referred Hybrid Log Gamma (i.e. relative light levels between brighter and darker pixels) which can take into account surrounding ambient light levels (rather than defining specific viewing conditions - as PQ does)  If you make a UHD show for the BBC you have to deliver it HLG Rec 2020.  This means the iPlayer workflow doesn't need to do anything but correctly encode it - no need to map to a new EOTF.

HDR10 isn't a solution to this current issue - as you'd no doubt end up with Rec 2020 HDR 10 output as SDR Rec 709 - which would look even worse...  (The iPlayer app isn't currently flagging Rec 2020 output when the content is Rec 2020.  AIUI this isn't done automatically by the Amazon Fire OS and needs apps to flag it to the OS)

You'd be better placed asking the BBC to correctly use the frame rate switching and colour gamut switching options now available in Fire TV OS. I don't know if Fire TV OS supports HLG flagging - but if it does the BBC should be asked to support it, if it doesn't Amazon should be asked to...


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-14

(2018-12-14, 14:02)xpr982539 Wrote:
(2018-12-14, 13:36)noggin Wrote: Amazon Prime Video
Jack Ryan is 2160p23.976 and available in at least HDR or DV on Netflix.
It's output at 2160p23.976 12bit 4:2:2 Rec 2020 Dolby Vision - after an adjusting frame rate message.  This is the only content that is played correctly so far.

If I could find Grand Tour in UHD on my Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K I'd report whether it was output at 2160p25 or p50 with HDR.  However I can only find the HD version - which is output at 2160p25 BT 709 4:2:2 12-bit SDR...
(Conclusion : Frame rate, gamut and EOTF switching enabled)
Thanks for the update.
I noticed the same thing with the iPlayer app on Firestick - GUI colours washed out until you cease watching, so expect you are correct about the switching.

As for Grand Tour, I found it in 4k somehow, so it is now on my recent list.  However I cannot figure out how I initially found it because I can't do so now when searching!  However it seems to be playing correctly (Season 1 at 24Hz, season 5 at 25Hz I think it was, both HDR10).
I have my FireStick 4K set to RGB.  Is YCbCr the better option.  TV supports it fine.  Would that be better for Kodi? 
 I stick with YCbCr as it's the only format that supports HDR at 2106p50 or 2160p60.  You can't output UHD RGB at higher frame rates than 30Hz with anything but 8-bit depth.

I also hope that if Rec 2020 stuff is incorrectly output flagged Rec 709 it won't have been through a YCbCr->RGB matrix (of the wrong flavour) if it's left as YCbCr - so I can manually force it back into Rec 2020 on my TV (which I don't think would work as well if it's been through an incorrect Rec 709 YCbCr->RGB matrix)


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - Hitcher - 2018-12-14

(2018-12-14, 13:51)xpr982539 Wrote:
(2018-12-14, 00:24)noggin Wrote:  Dynasties UHD on iPlayer is 2160/25p HLG Rec 2020. It should be output 2160/50p Rec 2020 SDR or HLG (HLG is backwards compatible with SDR)
Very few iPlayer platforms apart from Smart TV internal players are correctly signalling HLG... 
Is anyone else able to view Dynasties in UHD HLG via the FireTV Stick?  Is your TV showing good output, or like mine with the dull colours?
Using the Smart TV internal app the colours seems better, although still not as saturated as I would expect.
I will fill out the UHD trial report for BBC and recommend they use HDR10! 
It plays on mine connected directly to my LG OLED.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-14

(2018-12-14, 14:15)Hitcher Wrote:
(2018-12-14, 13:51)xpr982539 Wrote:
(2018-12-14, 00:24)noggin Wrote:  Dynasties UHD on iPlayer is 2160/25p HLG Rec 2020. It should be output 2160/50p Rec 2020 SDR or HLG (HLG is backwards compatible with SDR)
Very few iPlayer platforms apart from Smart TV internal players are correctly signalling HLG... 
Is anyone else able to view Dynasties in UHD HLG via the FireTV Stick?  Is your TV showing good output, or like mine with the dull colours?
Using the Smart TV internal app the colours seems better, although still not as saturated as I would expect.
I will fill out the UHD trial report for BBC and recommend they use HDR10!    
It plays on mine connected directly to my LG OLED.   
How are you confirming 25/50Hz output, Rec 2020 gamut and HLG EOTF being flagged by the Fire TV Stick 4K?

We all get pictures 2160p output on our Fire TV Stick 4K - but it's 59.94Hz and flagged Rec 709 with an SDR EOTF.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - Hitcher - 2018-12-14

It's not framerate matching but my TV reports BT.2020 HLG HDR and it doesn't look washed at all.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - xpr982539 - 2018-12-14

(2018-12-14, 14:39)Hitcher Wrote: It's not framerate matching but my TV reports BT.2020 HLG HDR and it doesn't look washed at all.
Sounds like your TV gives decent information.  I just get the one line of information showing resolution, frame rate and HDR mode (displays either HDR10 or HDR HLG).
I'm intrigued that some folk can force the TV into certain modes.  Don't think my Hisense AE6100 can do that.  Would be interesting to try and see if it takes care of the dull colours when playing though Kodi.

I'm wondering then if one of the files I have is HLG rather than HDR10  The HDR10 files look great.
Could it be that the HLG thing isn't working on the Amazon Fire TV Stick?  Or the switching signal for HLG isn't getting through from Kodi to the TV?  I wish I could find a way to force it.  Or is it my TV model that doesn't support HLG properly?  I've just realised the specs list the panel as 8-bit+FRC :-(

BTW, I reset the colour in TV Stick settings to YCbCr.

Did I read somewhere about resolution switching in FireOS as some kind of developer app addon?  Couldn't seem to find the info again...


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-14

(2018-12-14, 14:39)Hitcher Wrote: It's not framerate matching but my TV reports BT.2020 HLG HDR and it doesn't look washed at all.
That's interesting. 

I need to see if my Sony + Denon combo (both of which are supposed to be HLG-friendly) are flagging HLG compatibility via EDID etc.  I know the combo will flip into HLG mode if I send HLG infoframes from the Vertex (so they accept HLG flags over HDMI)  However the Sony TV supports 1080p120 via HDMI but doesn't flag this via EDID - so it wouldn't surprise me if Sony were a bit behind in their EDID flagging for HLG?

EDIT - creating a custom EDID to spoof the Fire TV Stick 4K gets it to output HLG (though still Rec 709) - so it looks as if the XF9005+Denon isn't flagging HLG support via EDID potentially. Will try without the Denon in the path. 
EDIT 2 - bypassing the Denon AVR the results are the same. Looks like the Sony may not be flagging HLG support via its EDID - even though it happily recognises HLG Infoframes. If I spoof the EDID fed to the Fire TV Stick 4K to support HLG, it outputs HLG and the Sony TV switches to HLG EOTF.  But still Rec 709 even though the EDID flags 2020 support. Odd...
EDIT 3 - looks like although I can inject Rec 2020 Primary flags into Infoframes via the HD Fury Vertex GUI, this doesn't overwrite the Rec 709 flags in the underlying video signal. More work needed. Think this may be a Sony / Amazon not-quite-working-together-properly thing specific to HLG in iPlayer - not quite so relevant to Kodi yet 
EDIT 4 - swapping out the Fire TV Stick 4K for a Roku Streaming Stick I get Rec 2020 HLG output in the Roku iPlayer if the HD Fury adds HLG support flagging to the Sony/Denon combo via EDID - so there is still a gamut switching/flagging issue present on the Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K app. If I don't flag HLG support, the Roku outputs Rec 709 SDR - the same as the Amazon Fire TV without spoofed HLG support. The Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K doesn't seem to want to output Rec 2020 iPlayer content in Rec 2020 on my Sony like the Roku does in HLG mode


I know my Sony TV does HLG via it's internal iPlayer app, and I know I can manually select it in Picture Settings.

I've just upgraded my HD Fury Vertex to the latest firmware as I think I was missing a DV update. (DV HDR was not being flagged as DV or HDR on the previous firmware, I now get DV flagged in the first line - but I guess no metadata as this is Dolby specific/proprietary, unlike HDR10 metadata which is open)


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - xpr982539 - 2018-12-14

(2018-12-14, 16:40)noggin Wrote: I know my Sony TV does HLG via it's internal iPlayer app, and I know I can manually select it in Picture Settings.

I've just upgraded my HD Fury Vertex to the latest firmware as I think I was missing a DV update. (DV HDR was not being flagged as DV or HDR on the previous firmware, I now get DV flagged in the first line - but I guess no metadata as this is Dolby specific/proprietary, unlike HDR10 metadata which is open) 
Great investigative work there noggin.
Unfortunately I am unable to force settings via my picture settings :-(

HLG seems to be an issue with my TV, although it does flip to it on iPlayer for Dynasties when going direct.  But not through Kodi or iPlayer on the Fire Stick.  I reckon you're right that there's is a gamut switching/flagging issue present on the Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K app.

For now I'll do a bit more research on which way to go for the main viewing room.  I actually got the Firestick just for the bedroom 1080p panel, but couldn't resist giving it a good workout in 4K mode in the living room just in case it would save me £80 over a more capable unit!  Guess not.

BTW, have you guys had success in adding other skins to Kodi RC2 on the Firestick?  Mine doesn't seem to respond when I select the "Get more" option.

EDIT - nevermind about the skin.  Once I plugged it back in downstairs it accepted the Skin update.  Must have been when I was running 17.6 on the FireStick that it wouldn't add other skins.


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - noggin - 2018-12-15

(2018-12-14, 20:40)xpr982539 Wrote:
(2018-12-14, 16:40)noggin Wrote: I know my Sony TV does HLG via it's internal iPlayer app, and I know I can manually select it in Picture Settings.

I've just upgraded my HD Fury Vertex to the latest firmware as I think I was missing a DV update. (DV HDR was not being flagged as DV or HDR on the previous firmware, I now get DV flagged in the first line - but I guess no metadata as this is Dolby specific/proprietary, unlike HDR10 metadata which is open) 
Great investigative work there noggin.
Unfortunately I am unable to force settings via my picture settings :-(

HLG seems to be an issue with my TV, although it does flip to it on iPlayer for Dynasties when going direct.  But not through Kodi or iPlayer on the Fire Stick.  I reckon you're right that there's is a gamut switching/flagging issue present on the Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K app.

For now I'll do a bit more research on which way to go for the main viewing room.  I actually got the Firestick just for the bedroom 1080p panel, but couldn't resist giving it a good workout in 4K mode in the living room just in case it would save me £80 over a more capable unit!  Guess not.

BTW, have you guys had success in adding other skins to Kodi RC2 on the Firestick?  Mine doesn't seem to respond when I select the "Get more" option.

EDIT - nevermind about the skin.  Once I plugged it back in downstairs it accepted the Skin update.  Must have been when I was running 17.6 on the FireStick that it wouldn't add other skins. 

Well - I've done a bit more digging now...

I downloaded the EDID data from my Sony TV (directly via an HDMI connected to the Sony TV) and from my Sony TV + Denon AVR combo.

In both cases the EDID block contained data in Static HDR Metadata fields confirming both ST.2084 (aka PQ/HDR10) and HLG support.  The EDID also confirmed both RGB and YCbCr Rec 2020 support.

So why do both the Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K and Roku not output video with an HLG info frame flag (i.e. flag their outputs in HLG) can why does the Amazon Fire TV stick not flag Rec 2020 ?  The TV EDID says it supports HLG and Rec 2020.

I wonder if there is something more that some devices look for to flag HLG and/or Rec 2020 support in an EDID block?  Clearly something isn't right?  (When I force HLG support to be reported by my HD Fury Vertex adding it to the TV's EDID both devices output HLG flagged video - though the FireTV Stick 4K still flags Rec 2020. The HD Fury Vertex also doesn't think HLG support is flagged in my TV's EDID I think, hence offering me the option of adding it)

EDID and HDMI Infoframes ARE confusing as extensions get added I guess...

What's encouraging is that the Sony TV does seem to report HLG compatibility.

(For info I exported the EDID from my HD Fury Vertex, and read it in two versions of Advantiv EEdit which is a free download)


RE: 2018 - Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K - DaMacFunkin - 2018-12-16

Got the latest firmware and updated to latest nightlies, still out of synch, particularly bad with 4K movies that have Atmos / True HD tracks ☹️


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