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- mirak63 - 2009-05-25
Hello
I did a ubuntu package with the latest vdr patch on xbmc, it's there https://launchpad.net/~mirak-mirak/+archive/ppa
The package built fine on my computer, they should be available soon on the ppa, they are currently uploading.
There is also package for vdr-1.7.7, libxine-vdpau, vdr-xine, nvidia drivers, v4l-dvb
- dubstar_04 - 2009-05-26
mirak63,
thanks for taking the time to do that.
I will try and have a go with it soon, but my machine is a full time myth server so I need to wait until the mrs is out!
Thanks again,
Dubstar_04
- hepi - 2009-05-26
Hello Mirak,
Congratulations to your PPA and XBMC build! Currently, I'm not aware of any other PPA with the latest vdr 1.7.x packages. On which SVN revision is your XBMC build based?
I also have a PPA where I build XBMC packages that contain the necessary patch for connecting to VDR-streamdev with XBMC (xbmc-svn19616-pvr.patch). The PPA is available here:
https://launchpad.net/~henningpingel/+archive/xbmc
I started this PPA about 4 weeks ago, but since I was a beginner regarding using Launchpad and I wasn't sure about the quality of my builds, I didn't announce it here. After four weeks of building XBMC packages, I think I have gathered some experiences which I would like to share here:
1) Until the code in the unified-pvr-branch will be ready for use, I always use the linuxport branch as a basis for package building. I don't use the code from branch 9.04_Babylon-linux-osx-win32, because of ticket #6466 (http://trac.xbmc.org/ticket/6466): The fix was not fully backported to rhe release branch (yet).
2) The current patch for XBMC made by alwinus can be applied without rejects up until linuxport revision r19955. More recent revisions will only work with manual changes to the patch xbmc-svn19616-pvr.patch. My latest PPA package was build on r19955.
3) r19830 seems to give several users troubles: People end up with a lot of "Channel blocked or encrypted" messages when trying to zap through SD channels. Building without the changes of r19830 helped a lot of people. (http://trac.xbmc.org/changeset/19830/branches/linuxport)
More details about the stuff I have summarized above can be found in the German language forum VDR-Portal.de where we now have a section on XBMC since a few weeks: http://www.vdr-portal.de/board/board.php?boardid=95
Cheers,
hepi
- mirak63 - 2009-05-26
I think there are vdr packages on e-toby vdr site, however I didn't found how to acces the binaries, and globally the website is ugly, I didn't found any access point to contribute. It would be nice they switch to launchpad which is really nice to colaborate contribute and share packages accross ppa's. Also it's easier to have packages like opensc that will never be in ubuntu or debian.
I created a team ppa for vdr, used to collect plugins add new ones and eventually rip off debianized plugin around, like on e-toby, or debian and ubuntu archive, to take advantage of launchpad, but I didn't found active collaborators yet.
I created a vdr vanilla branch, and a branch where vdr needs to be patched for spécific plugins.
For XBMC since I am new to xbmc I just used the stable ppa for ubuntu and since the xbmc-svn19616-pvr.patch worked I stayed on that.
However yes, it's crashing a lot, so I might switch to svn too, or steal your package.
I also have the issue you said about encrypted or blocked channels
I hope that creating packages will attract testers, or eventually developers.
- hepi - 2009-05-26
The apt-repository on e-tobi.net offers Debian-Source-Packages and Debian-Binary-Packages of VDR. The apt-repository on hanno.de offers Ubuntu-Binary-Packages based on the Source-Packages of e-tobi. Discussion / contribution IMHO mainly happens in the vdr-portal.de board. I asked Hanno (of hanno.de) a few weeks ago if Launchpad would be an option, but he said it is not because of licence issues (see http://www.vdr-portal.de/board/thread.php?postid=810460).
Alwins currently latest patch xbmc-svn19616-pvr.patch contains known issues and is an experimental patch. So there will be always be the occasional XBMC crashes with this patch. People are looking forward to the day when Alwin and alcoheca will have the unified-pvr branch ready to be used, and they are working actively on this. Until then, we have to live with the patch xbmc-svn19616-pvr.patch and it's issues. And it's already a lot of fun to use XBMC with this patch, even with known issues.
Cheers,
hepi
- mirak63 - 2009-05-26
german is like chineese for me
it's a pity because there are a lot of valuable informations
and google translation doesn't work
what is the issue with legal things ?
I have illégal things on launchpad like opensc
- hepi - 2009-05-26
That's not the point. I guess it is about different software licences that would be mixed up. It's not about illegal plugins. Illegal plugins are not offered there anyway.
- mirak63 - 2009-05-26
launchpad is just an hoster, you are not dependent of ubuntu and debian tight policy
- hepi - 2009-05-26
Basically, I'm just trying to explain somebody elses opinion/reasons here to summarize in English language why somebody else decided not to use Launchpad. I personally have no problem with Launchpad - I'm using Launchpad for my stuff as well. I can see that you already posted your opinion on vdr-portal to hanno, so he is the right person to talk to about it.
- mirak63 - 2009-05-26
I know, what I wanted to say here is that I think he though that on launchpad he would have the same restriction that prevent some of the plugins on is own archive to go in debian and ubuntu official archive.
There is no reason, you do what you want on the ppa, as long as you don't infringe too much the hoster rules.
At first I though it was because of really tendencious packages like opensc, that's why I talked about it.
Considering is reaction regarding opensc, I feel he is more interested in having his own ppa on which he will have total control rather than a collaborative space with different maintainers.
He also can have is personnal archive on launchpad, but I see no incentive for him to use launchpad at all since he already have that on his website.
I would not make opensc a requirement to a collaboration to a team ppa, since this package is tendencious for many people, and since anyway I can have it on my own ppa.
However I just didn't liked is reaction about that, I never forced him to maintain opensc or anything like that unlike what he makes think. It's just in my ppa and the team ppa I created, that's all.
So if the guy have by principle no intention to work with people that use opensc, and since I feel insulted to be considered as a criminal even if I use it with my legal subscription card, I think any possibility of collabarotion is pretty much jeopardised.
So I guess i will probably just mirror his archive.
- hepi - 2009-05-26
Here's my opinion: Hanno is a very nice guy who has put up a Ubuntu repository for VDR in his spare time and invests a lot of time to keep it running. Many people use his and profit from his repository. Everybody is happy with his repository because it works very reliable. Next to you and me, nobody bothered him about Launchpad yet. Why should he be forced to use Launchpad? It's his choice and we can ask him - and if he says "no" - that's it.
Two other important things about VDR packages regarding XBMC:
1) Even if hanno's repository would be in Launchpad, it would not contain packages that are patched for being usable with XBMC (it doesn't contain them now). This is due to the fact that the patch for vdr-plugin-streamdev-server is not yet part of the upstream code base of the plugin. So the XBMC-support in VDR is still not part of the standard code base (only partly).
2) For VDR, there are three different flavours how to build the packages (standard, multipatch, extensions). A VDR repository that call's itself complete must contain packages for all these three flavours (I'm not saying this can't be done with Launchpad). The packages that can work together with XBMC should be based on the variant "extensions" due to recommendations of the patches' author.
Cheers,
hepi
- mirak63 - 2009-05-26
hepi Wrote:Two other important things about VDR packages regarding XBMC:
1) Even if hanno's repository would be in Launchpad, it would not contain packages that are patched for being usable with XBMC (it doesn't contain them now). This is due to the fact that the patch for vdr-plugin-streamdev-server is not yet part of the upstream code base of the plugin. So the XBMC-support in VDR is still not part of the standard code base (only partly).
That's where launchpad cool features rises.
a ppa can depend on others to build packages.
So here for the streamdev plugin, if there was e-toby on launchpad, we could just have a ppa that would depend on e-toby ppa, and would include a streamdev version usable by xbmc with a version number that superseed the streamdev version on e-toby.
hepi Wrote:2) For VDR, there are three different flavours how to build the packages (standard, multipatch, extensions). A VDR repository that call's itself complete must contain packages for all these three flavours (I'm not saying this can't be done with Launchpad). The packages that can work together with XBMC should be based on the variant "extensions" due to recommendations of the patches' author.
Thanks I didn't knew that, that maybe explain why it's not working fine
Regarding vdr patching there is something I don't like.
Is that there are so many patches outside of upstream.
Specially the patches needed for plugins. Either the pluging system sucks, or the upstream interface isn't updated enough, but you can't have so many patches for so long not included to vdr.
Some extensions patch should have lead to interface modifications at least, so they could live outside of vdr as plugins that can be disabled.
I should follow the mailing list to see by myself why it's like that.
hepi Wrote:Here's my opinion: Hanno is a very nice guy who has put up a Ubuntu repository for VDR in his spare time and invests a lot of time to keep it running. Many people use his and profit from his repository. Everybody is happy with his repository because it works very reliable. Next to you and me, nobody bothered him about Launchpad yet. Why should he be forced to use Launchpad? It's his choice and we can ask him - and if he says "no" - that's it.
I think there is no problem explaining him why we both though lauchpad was great.
If he refuses I just prefer knowing he understood what launchpad allow to do and what it doesn't.
If hano prefer work is way that's it, however nothing prevent us to clone is archive on launchpad if we want, and take advantage of launchpad features.
cloning a ppa archive shouldn't be to hard, with a well written script.
- hepi - 2009-05-27
You are free to do whatever you want, but please respect other people's work and stay friendly and patient. Try to learn how the VDR-Portal-Community socially works to understand why you are the first person eagerly und urgently requesting an official Launchpad repository for VDR.
I still don't really understand why your first thought was that illegal plugins could be the reason to not use Launchpad?!? Naming an illegal plugin in VDR-Portal is treated as a little sacrilege there, so you won't make friends easily there if you talk about it connected to package hosting. That's what I mean with: Try to learn about the community first before asking for big changes.
There is basically nothing wrong with a homegrown Ubuntu repository like Hanno has set up.
Cheers,
hepi
- mirak63 - 2009-05-27
hepi Wrote:You are free to do whatever you want, but please respect other people's work and stay friendly and patient. Try to learn how the VDR-Portal-Community socially works to understand why you are the first person eagerly und urgently requesting an official Launchpad repository for VDR.
You are doing like hano here, you are telling I a did things I didn't do.
I didn't forced hano to maintain opensc
I didn't urged him to use launchpad either
I can't learn anything about vdr portal community since I don't know a word of german.
hepi Wrote:I still don't really understand why your first thought was that illegal plugins could be the reason to not use Launchpad?!?
you said the problem was about licence issues.
since a launchpad ppa does'nt need to follow ubuntu and debian licence policy, I though you were talking about things considered as illégal like libdvdcss, or similarly opensc wich in my opinion have the same problem they don't have a patent for decryption algorythme they use.
hepi Wrote:Naming an illegal plugin in VDR-Portal is treated as a little sacrilege there, so you won't make friends easily there if you talk about it connected to package hosting.
as I explain above it's mostly a misunderstanding
On the french forum equivalent of vdrportal, we can discuss about opensc as long as it's for use with an official card, and eventually a cardserver, but no cardshare etcetera.
We, here in France don't have much alternatives with CAMs, cable and sattelite cards, we mostly buy everything from german online stores. And opensc allow to have something working with the official card, multiple tuners, at a cheap price and with a better chance of succes.
hepi Wrote:Try to learn about the community first before asking for big changes.
Sorry, that's impossible unfortunely, I don't speak german.
hepi Wrote:There is basically nothing wrong with a homegrown Ubuntu repository like Hanno has set up.
I don't know him, I respect is work of course since I reuse it
, however you can't force me to not think it could be more open and there are nice solutions out there.It's not because I exposed there what I think is nice in launchpad, that I urge him and spam him to use it. Suggesting a tool and describing some features is the least I could do.
Now you can feel I bash him, like I said I didn't liked they way he implied I kind of forced him to maintain sc.
Now I will stop there I don't want to spend time in internet social conflicts and ego management
- hepi - 2009-05-27
Hi mirak63,
I can understand most of your points, too. I know that I couldn't take part in a French community forum either, since my French is very poor unfortunately. So with my postings I added to this thread since yesterday, I also wanted to help to close the (knowledge) gap between the XBMC-experts here and the VDR-experts on vdr-portal.de a little. Therefore I try to summarize some experiences in this thread that are originally from the German language forum. By the way, I have started to write a little XBMC-FAQ (in German language) which could maybe be useful for some people here. An automated English translation of average quality is available here.
And in this context I would like to stress that mentioning the illegals plugin on the vdr-portal.de is easily interpreted as a request for it or an offer to provide it which is against the forum rules there and will result in negative reactions of most of the forum members there. Since you are interested in Launchpad hosting, there's no need to use illegal plugins for explaining the advantages of Launchpad, I think.
Cheers,
hepi