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24p and audio sync issues - Printable Version

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+---- Thread: 24p and audio sync issues (/showthread.php?tid=80247)



RE: 24p and audio sync issues - steelman1991 - 2012-09-10

You might want to try reading the relevant post when someone takes the time to provide you with information, just saying.


RE: 24p and audio sync issues - DDDamian - 2012-09-10

Hmmm. Okay somwhat more info here. Robl45 - I've read several of your posts at avsforums. From the info you give above for container/codecs we're looking for any specific containers/video formats/audio formats which seem to stand out. Is it across the board for you? All files? Several other users seem to notice most on DTS for example.

For deviation are you seeing a steady state? Audio leading or lagging or random?

Sure you have, but have you tried without Adjust Refresh to Display?

Do you find any advantage to software decoding of the audio and then skip/duping audio packets?


RE: 24p and audio sync issues - robl45 - 2012-09-10

(2012-09-10, 04:14)DDDamian Wrote: Hmmm. Okay somwhat more info here. Robl45 - I've read several of your posts at avsforums. From the info you give above for container/codecs we're looking for any specific containers/video formats/audio formats which seem to stand out. Is it across the board for you? All files? Several other users seem to notice most on DTS for example.

For deviation are you seeing a steady state? Audio leading or lagging or random?

Sure you have, but have you tried without Adjust Refresh to Display?

Do you find any advantage to software decoding of the audio and then skip/duping audio packets?

i haven't used it in awhile as i've been using mpc-hc until hopefully it gets sorted, but from memory any h264/x264 container would play with correct audio sync assuming sync to display was locking on. AVI things like xvid were always off, I believe i had to delay 235 to 250ms to get audio to be close to correct with that. If I remember correctly standard definition avi did not have this problem, only HD.

I pretty much only have things with 5.1 audio and they would be almost exclusively either ac3 or AAC. I could not tell you if it happens or doesn't happen with DTS.

I did try without adjust refresh to display, didn't make a difference.

as far as sync goes, it would be pretty constant either spot on or off by whatever amount for AVI files assuming the sync to display missing counter was not counting up.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the last part? I always used sync to display with drop/dupe audio. Audio goes through optical to the receiver.


RE: 24p and audio sync issues - DDDamian - 2012-09-10

The last bit was basically to find out if the issue you report was in any way helped by software audio decoding in XBMC, i.e. not bitstreaming encoded data which would not be well served by skip/dupe.

Is this then a correct summary? If in doubt then say, as we're looking only for definitive answers here:

OS Version:win 7 64bit
GPU: GT430 Nvidia
Video Driver:8.17.12.9053
Soundcard:Realtek on board High Definition
ReceiverTongueioneer VSX3300
Audio Drivers:6.0.1.6343
XBMC Build:Eden Beta 1
XBMC SettingsConfusedync to display drop/dupe audio, adjust refresh to display
Container/codecs: AVI / XVid / ac3 and AAC (DTS not tested), SD okay, h264 okay
Muxer Version: unknown
Deviation: 235-250ms audio leading <<------ are you sure??


RE: 24p and audio sync issues - robl45 - 2012-09-10

(2012-09-10, 05:00)DDDamian Wrote: The last bit was basically to find out if the issue you report was in any way helped by software audio decoding in XBMC, i.e. not bitstreaming encoded data which would not be well served by skip/dupe.

Is this then a correct summary? If in doubt then say, as we're looking only for definitive answers here:

OS Version:win 7 64bit
GPU: GT430 Nvidia
Video Driver:8.17.12.9053
Soundcard:Realtek on board High Definition
ReceiverTongueioneer VSX3300
Audio Drivers:6.0.1.6343
XBMC Build:Eden Beta 1
XBMC SettingsConfusedync to display drop/dupe audio, adjust refresh to display
Container/codecs: AVI / XVid / ac3 and AAC (DTS not tested), SD okay, h264 okay
Muxer Version: unknown
Deviation: 235-250ms audio leading <<------ are you sure??


yes, that is correct, yes, audio needed to be delayed 235-250 ms. I never bitstream, no point really as my receiver can only do dolby digital.


RE: 24p and audio sync issues - DDDamian - 2012-09-11

Quote from a user in another thread:

Quote:The way I've encoded videos over the years has changed, and I've found that the older ones (in avi containers encoded as XviD-video and AC3- or MP3-audio) seem to have a persistent issue with the audio being about 0.150 seconds behind the video. The more recently encoded videos (in m4v containers encoded as AVC1-video and AAC-audio) all play fine with perfect sync.

I've seen various posts around with things like older versions of MKVMerge causing issues, and using one program to rip a disc to MKV with bad sync vs then using another program ripping to m2ts working fine.

Anyone seeing this larger sync issue (150-250ms) being ripper-related? Anyone test an older version of, say, MKVMerge vs newer ones?


RE: 24p and audio sync issues - robl45 - 2012-09-11

what is said above appears to make sense. XVID was the big issue for me, mp4 seemed to be fine.

I do hope we are going to try to fix the sync to display problem and not just the audio syncing up as it would be nice for the audio to sync up without dropping frames of video or randomly going out out sync.


RE: 24p and audio sync issues - liquidskin76 - 2012-09-12

Hmmm... it would appear i have been a bit harsh on AE. Blush

Out of interest, i downloaded Eden and tested sync again at 24p. Well, compared to AE, it was a mile out. So i dug out a BD disc (Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring) and sync checked with my DB player. Guess what... that sync matched XBMC AE's sync perfectly. LOTRFOTR was one of the vids that always looked out of sync to me on my HTPC, so was always my main test clip. Guess it must be something with the sync on that DB that looks funny to my eyes.

So i stopped being a dushbag, and started checking alot more vids. I'm very happy to report sync is actually good. Not sure what the hell i was seeing or thinking previously... time for an eye test i think. Rolleyes

Really sorry guys for the red herring. DDDamian... sorry buddy. Looks like you have been right on the money with Windows AE and sync. One less person to worry about anyway!! Big Grin

Cheers
(liquidskin slowly backs out of forum thread, trying to look cool and not too embarrassed... Cool Blush Wink)


RE: 24p and audio sync issues - Stefanhvt - 2012-09-12

Same experience for me me liguidskin,

The frodo builds with AE are perfectly in sync. The only thing I'm still noticing is the standard effect of 24P movies on speech. I think I'm much more used to PAL 25fps at 50 hz. In theaters however I don't have any complains about 24P.

The other aspect I'm still noticing with AE is the instability of my video card at 24 hz. Damian, you said that achieving 1ms syncing would be impossible. Could you tell me what is the most closed sync we can expect on a software based media player ?

I'm now switching between xbmc and my Samsung allshare player. The Samsung play's stable that's for sure. I hope to achieve the same with xbmc one day.




RE: 24p and audio sync issues - steelman1991 - 2012-09-12

(2012-09-12, 01:01)liquidskin76 Wrote: Hmmm... it would appear i have been a bit harsh on AE. Blush

Out of interest, i downloaded Eden and tested sync again at 24p. Well, compared to AE, it was a mile out. So i dug out a BD disc (Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring) and sync checked with my DB player. Guess what... that sync matched XBMC AE's sync perfectly. LOTRFOTR was one of the vids that always looked out of sync to me on my HTPC, so was always my main test clip. Guess it must be something with the sync on that DB that looks funny to my eyes.

So i stopped being a dushbag, and started checking alot more vids. I'm very happy to report sync is actually good. Not sure what the hell i was seeing or thinking previously... time for an eye test i think. Rolleyes

Really sorry guys for the red herring. DDDamian... sorry buddy. Looks like you have been right on the money with Windows AE and sync. One less person to worry about anyway!! Big Grin

Cheers
(liquidskin slowly backs out of forum thread, trying to look cool and not too embarrassed... Blush Wink)
Laugh the eyesight problem only gets worse - believe me. Mate, glad its working for you.


RE: 24p and audio sync issues - Stefanhvt - 2012-09-12

(2012-09-12, 09:29)Tracey469 Wrote: What do you run 23.976 material at then? It automatically selects 24p for those. I'd rather not have to manually switch between the "Adjust refresh rate" setting.ImageImageImageImage
What do you run 23.976 material at then? It automatically selects 24p for those. I'd rather not have to manually switch between the "Adjust refresh rate" setting.

Well, my samsung tv has an EDID mode for 24, and 23.976 hz. Both show 24P in the topcorner of my tv. However, as many of us know, the standard EDID modes of most tv models don't clock to 29.976 hz, but to 23.971. That's the reason a single modeline is still nescessary to achieve 23.976 hz exact. If you want to know the hz output of your tv you can give this commands to linux:

export DISPLAY=:0
nvidia-settings -nt -q refreshRate3


You will notice that the EDID mode's output is 23.971. By adjusting the pixel clock with 15 you will achieve 23.976 hz.



RE: 24p and audio sync issues - Stefanhvt - 2012-09-12

(2012-09-12, 10:09)steelman1991 Wrote:
(2012-09-12, 01:01)liquidskin76 Wrote: Hmmm... it would appear i have been a bit harsh on AE. Blush

Out of interest, i downloaded Eden and tested sync again at 24p. Well, compared to AE, it was a mile out. So i dug out a BD disc (Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring) and sync checked with my DB player. Guess what... that sync matched XBMC AE's sync perfectly. LOTRFOTR was one of the vids that always looked out of sync to me on my HTPC, so was always my main test clip. Guess it must be something with the sync on that DB that looks funny to my eyes.

So i stopped being a dushbag, and started checking alot more vids. I'm very happy to report sync is actually good. Not sure what the hell i was seeing or thinking previously... time for an eye test i think. Rolleyes

Really sorry guys for the red herring. DDDamian... sorry buddy. Looks like you have been right on the money with Windows AE and sync. One less person to worry about anyway!! Big Grin

Cheers
(liquidskin slowly backs out of forum thread, trying to look cool and not too embarrassed... Blush Wink)
Laugh the eyesight problem only gets worse - believe me. Mate, glad its working for you.

It's actually quite interesting. It seems to be a sort of mindset people can't escape from. If after that the believe or expectation of sync is there again, the observation of sync returns also.




RE: 24p and audio sync issues - nelson01 - 2012-09-12

I noticed that if I connect the htpc directly to the tv, there no sync issues at 24 hz, but if I run it through my denon, I have to add about 250 ms of delay in windows, and 125 ms of delay in ubuntu. I also got the same issue with mpc-hc and even my boxee box and ps3. Something about 24p through my avr causes delay.


RE: 24p and audio sync issues - DDDamian - 2012-09-13

Well, this has taken an interesting turn Wink


Re: RE: 24p and audio sync issues - jack0w - 2012-09-13

(2012-09-12, 22:43)nelson01 Wrote: I noticed that if I connect the htpc directly to the tv, there no sync issues at 24 hz, but if I run it through my denon, I have to add about 250 ms of delay in windows, and 125 ms of delay in ubuntu. I also got the same issue with mpc-hc and even my boxee box and ps3. Something about 24p through my avr causes delay.

Out of interest which AVR? I will add direct connection to TV to the list of things to check!

Also apologies for delay in posting my findings, life has been challenging lately to say the least - will hopefully test and post back soon