[ixian]

This conversation initiated somewhere around this post: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1673731

Since this is a 'more than FireTV' post, it should be relegated to it's own thread. It is likely to be ignored in the context of FireTV thread since it applies generally to android based stores and licensing. I think thwarting licensing is a taboo subject and should be generally avoided -- doubly-so in this Amazon Fire TV for XBMC thread.

Just my .02

I agree, this comes up a lot and the bottom line is no, they aren't going to stick a gimped version in the store (Google Play or Amazon) that users can then surreptitiously add features back to. One, this is dumb. Two, the major app stores aren't run by idiots and sooner or later will crack down on that (i.e. take it right back out of the store). Three, XBMC is a free, open source application created by volunteers and they could care less about it's "adoption rate". It's managed to become incredibly popular without being in an official store.

Just sideload it and be happy that works as well as it does. If you really want a button on the main FTV interface just install Plex and follow the wiki to turn it's app icon in to something that launches XBMC, even non technical family members can work that out.

1. How is this dumb this would make xbmc a more seamless application with fire tv. Because having to navigate through settings applications and then all the way down to xbmc is the smoothest way to integrate this application. BTW don't call something dumb just because you don't like the idea, this does not present a solid argument.

2. I don't honestly think the amazon app store would care if it was a stripped down version or care what you do with the application once it is on your fire tv as long as the app agrees with their policies they will put it out there.

3. I would tend to think the devs absolutely like adoption. The whole point of open source is to bring it to the masses. Make it free for EVERYONE. In this scenario not EVERYONE is going to want to side load and then have to navigate through menus to get to their main app.

I am fully appreciative of the app group. I think XBMC is great and that they are making an amazing cross-platform product. I do understand that one-off requests aren't usually a big priority for android boxes or different platforms, but I also see this post has been the top android post for going on 4 weeks now and there is a large amount of interest from the XBMC Community and there are many of us that would like a more seemless integration if that is possible. I know it is a request and that is why I threw it out there. If it is not feasible so be it, I'm sure there will be a hack that puts the app on the main menu eventually.

It's not what I like or not. I'd like it on the store too. I was simply stating the reasons from the many (many) times this has come up before. You act like you are having a debate with me when that's not the case.

Edit: Though the idea that XBMC should put a gimped version on the store that users would have to somehow sideload another version on top of to replace features (which I am not sure is even possible with official store apps) really is dumb. Think of the support nightmare/number of threads that would cause, either from trying to figure it out, or complaining that the DTS track in the pirated media they downloaded won't play (for example).

Yes it would be nice to have an official app that didn't have to be sideloaded and integrated with whatever platform. No one is arguing that point.

[who.is.matt]

When a video ends either by clicking the stop button in the OSD or when the video reaches the end, I briefly get a screen tiled with smaller versions of the OSD. It's primarily an annoyance, but it's the only real problem I've had using XBMC on the FTV. Any ideas on what might be causing it or how to fix it?

I see a similar thing when pressing play. It was brief and not terribly disturbing. We should each try capturing a camera video of it occurring and posting it. I hadn't thought of it as a problem before -- and now it escapes my notice because I am 'used' to it.

See the same thing on gotham nightlies when hitting 'stop', its not a problem, but since you guys mentioned it

As I said, it's more of an annoyance than an actual problem. My main concern is that it might be indicative of a bigger problem we just haven't spotted yet, or else will end up becoming a bigger problem later. Bugs have a tendency to snowball, so spotting and fixing them before they're actually a problem is generally a good idea. I'll try to capture a short video clip of it so others can have a better idea of what we're talking about.

[tential]

This conversation initiated somewhere around this post: http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid...pid1673731

Since this is a 'more than FireTV' post, it should be relegated to it's own thread. It is likely to be ignored in the context of FireTV thread since it applies generally to android based stores and licensing. I think thwarting licensing is a taboo subject and should be generally avoided -- doubly-so in this Amazon Fire TV for XBMC thread.

Just my .02

I agree, this comes up a lot and the bottom line is no, they aren't going to stick a gimped version in the store (Google Play or Amazon) that users can then surreptitiously add features back to. One, this is dumb. Two, the major app stores aren't run by idiots and sooner or later will crack down on that (i.e. take it right back out of the store). Three, XBMC is a free, open source application created by volunteers and they could care less about it's "adoption rate". It's managed to become incredibly popular without being in an official store.

Just sideload it and be happy that works as well as it does. If you really want a button on the main FTV interface just install Plex and follow the wiki to turn it's app icon in to something that launches XBMC, even non technical family members can work that out.

1. How is this dumb this would make xbmc a more seamless application with fire tv. Because having to navigate through settings applications and then all the way down to xbmc is the smoothest way to integrate this application. BTW don't call something dumb just because you don't like the idea, this does not present a solid argument.

2. I don't honestly think the amazon app store would care if it was a stripped down version or care what you do with the application once it is on your fire tv as long as the app agrees with their policies they will put it out there.

3. I would tend to think the devs absolutely like adoption. The whole point of open source is to bring it to the masses. Make it free for EVERYONE. In this scenario not EVERYONE is going to want to side load and then have to navigate through menus to get to their main app.

I am fully appreciative of the app group. I think XBMC is great and that they are making an amazing cross-platform product. I do understand that one-off requests aren't usually a big priority for android boxes or different platforms, but I also see this post has been the top android post for going on 4 weeks now and there is a large amount of interest from the XBMC Community and there are many of us that would like a more seemless integration if that is possible. I know it is a request and that is why I threw it out there. If it is not feasible so be it, I'm sure there will be a hack that puts the app on the main menu eventually.

1. It's a great idea from a user standpoint. However, from a developer standpoint, this means creating a whole new version of XBMC that they have to troubleshoot, update, and do everything for. This is an opensource program so you have to get one of the coders to add more time to strip features out of XBMC.

2. If you make a stripped down version of XBMC then there would be nothing you could do with the application that would't bbe something Amazon wouldn't be happy about. A stripped down version would mean you couldn't add more plugins, or do anything not authorized by Amazon. That's the devs issue. They don't want to create and maintain a WHOLE new version of XBMC. That said, XBMC is an open sourced project. You're MORE than welcome to (correct me if I'm wrong guys), submit your stripped down version of XBMC to Amazon and provide updates to it.
I can understand though that devs WONT want to do this. Imagine you spent all your time at your job making something great. Then, someone told you your NEW job was to take every single thing you have done, and remove it from the project. Not many people are going to be too excited to spend their time removing features. Also, no one is forcing you to get a FireTV. This isn't an XBMC issue, this is a FireTV closed wall issue. On my S3, XBMC is in the apps list because I don't have to "sideload" the app. I just go to XBMC site and download it and allow unregistered apps and I'm good to go. If you want an Android set top box for XBMC, you can purchase one. Or just use Open Elec.
3. The point isn't to make it free to everyone. The point of the XBMC project is
http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=XBMC_manifesto
Reading this page you can find two things that a stripped down XBMC version would do that is directly against the project goals.

"One major ongoing goal of Team-XBMC has always been to make XBMC and its user interface feel even more intuitive and user-friendly for its end-users, based on the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle of simplicity."

Adding different versions of XBMC would cause massive amounts of confusion. Similar to how different versions of Windows 8, 7, etc. drive me INSANE. I go to install a program only to find out that I need xyz version of Windows. Windows 8 simplified it a bit, but it's still annoying to find out I need the Pro upgrade for xyz feature.

"Apply the Law of Diminishing Return - The majority of the effort should be invested in implementing features which have the most benefit and widest general usage by the community."

A stripped down version of XBMC isn't really what the majority of the community wants. We want plugins, we want customization, we don't want to be locked in a garden. I honestly wouldn't mind an Android App that is stripped down but the devs have considered that a stripped down version wouldn't be worth it.

That said, if you can get a LARGE amount of end users to feel otherwise, be my guest. I understand how the devs feel. The effort isn't worth the reward. Getting into the appstore to appease FireTV users specifically? And to appease the users that don't want to sideload? That's a very small user base as it is.

The point is XBMC is supposed to be the same experience across all platforms, second you make new versions it's not the same anymore.

Summary: No one on the XBMC team wants to dedicate their coding time to removing features to please Amazon.

[thefrog]

Things must have greatly improved.. I was only able to get a few videos to do this on the start

http://youtu.be/sCO-xBw_ESM

Not that much of an issue, file is a DVD ISO. Could get log if needed, but would need to run machine with ADB,

[edited for mixed up posting]

[thefrog]

Summary: No one on the XBMC team wants to dedicate their coding time to removing features to please Amazon.

Great response (the whole thing, snipped for brevity in reply) should be on the Wiki, it was very explanatory.

[edited for mixed up posting]

[papertigers]

Is the lack of MPEG2 support a hardware limitation from amazon or something thats planned to be supported eventually?

[Knocks]

Summary: No one on the XBMC team wants to dedicate their coding time to removing features to please Amazon.

Great response (the whole thing, snipped for brevity in reply) should be on the Wiki, it was very explanatory.

[edited for mixed up posting]

The reality is that the announcement and release of Fire TV is going to change the landscape of Android set-top boxes quite significantly. You can't ignore the fact that it costs $99 including remote. That makes it extremely competitive even with OpenELEC-based systems. I am a long-time XBMC user, and as soon as this thing was announced and people confirmed XBMC running on it, I passed on buying an OpenELEC system (which I strongly considered before) and ordered a Fire TV. Amazon is selling these things at a loss, and it's poised to become the dominant set-top box in the U.S., and then very possibly everywhere else where Amazon is present.

So pleasing Amazon to get on that little box may not be a bad idea after all. Again, if it's sold at a loss, open-source based hardware will never compete with it on price, by definition. And removing features is not a big deal. It's not like you'd be removing a whole lot of features anyway, and it can be almost automated.

[nickr]

Summary: No one on the XBMC team wants to dedicate their coding time to removing features to please Amazon.

Great response (the whole thing, snipped for brevity in reply) should be on the Wiki, it was very explanatory.

[edited for mixed up posting]

The reality is that the announcement and release of Fire TV is going to change the landscape of Android set-top boxes quite significantly. You can't ignore the fact that it costs $99 including remote. That makes it extremely competitive even with OpenELEC-based systems. I am a long-time XBMC user, and as soon as this thing was announced and people confirmed XBMC running on it, I passed on buying an OpenELEC system (which I strongly considered before) and ordered a Fire TV. Amazon is selling these things at a loss, and it's poised to become the dominant set-top box in the U.S., and then very possibly everywhere else where Amazon is present.

So pleasing Amazon to get on that little box may not be a bad idea after all. Again, if it's sold at a loss, open-source based hardware will never compete with it on price, by definition. And removing features is not a big deal. It's not like you'd be removing a whole lot of features anyway, and it can be almost automated.

Yeah good on you, enjoy your lack of any framerate other than 30/60, lack of deinterlacing and other limitations of android.

You are entitled to your opinion, but XBMC is not going to neuter itself to run there. But you are entitled to fork the project, neuter it, and submit it to amazon. But please, FFS change the name so that XBMC is not embarrassed by the cutbacks.

And would Amazon even want it in their store? I doubt it, they don't want to let you install something to compete with their own video offerings.

Not that sideloading (to get the full XBMC experience) is even that hard.

[Knocks]

lack of any framerate other than 30/60

Oh no, my videos have to run at the same framerate that all videos have run for the past century up until 2013. I think I am going to have a heart attack. 60fps, are you kidding me, what a disgrace.

[who.is.matt]

Things must have greatly improved.. I was only able to get a few videos to do this on the start

http://youtu.be/sCO-xBw_ESM

Not that much of an issue, file is a DVD ISO. Could get log if needed, but would need to run machine with ADB,

[edited for mixed up posting]

I can understand why you haven't mentioned it earlier if that's all you're seeing of this glitch. This is what I'm seeing, and it happened on the first video I tried, the first time I tried to capture it on my camera. http://youtu.be/3mqTalQhhpQ

This was an mp4/h264/AAC. As you can see, the problem is slightly more noticeable on my system. It happens fairly frequently, and persists long enough to be annoying. I haven't experienced it when starting a video, only when stopping one.

[nickr]

lack of any framerate other than 30/60

Oh no, my videos have to run at the same framerate that all videos have run for the past century up until 2013. I think I am going to have a heart attack. 60fps, are you kidding me, what a disgrace.

I see you seem to nothing about digital video. Cheers.

[cncb]

lack of deinterlacing and other limitations of android.

So, no deinterlacing is inherent to Android? I take it then that playback of 1080i TV recordings will always be poor? I really had high hopes for this box, but will have to return it if this is the case.

[calev]

Personally I could care less about live tv and frame rate switching. I can't tell the difference with bluray rips from android to pi to nvidia 660ti. But I live in the us.

[D3w4yne]

lack of deinterlacing and other limitations of android.

So, no deinterlacing is inherent to Android? I take it then that playback of 1080i TV recordings will always be poor? I really had high hopes for this box, but will have to return it if this is the case.

So deinterlacing has been mentioned a few times in this thread but this is the first I heard someone say "lack of deinterlacing and other limitations of android".

Using XBMC on my Galaxy Note 3 I can deinterlace video, so I would have to assume that the statement is incorrect.

In Gotham the deinterlacing options are grayed out on my AFTV. I use XBMC and NPVR for all of my live TV viewing since I use an antenna. I'd hope that this would be enabled in a future version and I've been holding out. I have not tried the latest nightly yet but I will tonight just to be sure the issue still exists.

Dewayne

[ozkhan1]

I was thinking about getting it, purely for netflix, hulu, etc but then I came across this wonderful dlna HD Netflix fix from HelloHello and thank you very much, I will stick with my NUC and abandoned the idea for FTV.

http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=192948&page=2