[Warner306]

How the Dynamic Display Target Nits Works

INTRO

Scene Peak <= real display peak nits:
No tone mapping is required, so the PQ luminance values are output 1:1 with the real display peak nits.

Scene Peak > real display peak nits
Low Frame FALL:
When a scene has a high scene peak brightness but a low frame FALL, a small increase is made to the display target nits to restore some specular highlight detail without compressing the scene to the point of losing visible shadow detail near black.

Scene Peak > real display peak nits
High Frame FALL:
When a scene has a high scene peak brightness and a high frame FALL, a larger increase is made to the display target nits to capture even greater specular highlight detail and aggressively compress any pixels near the target display peak white that might otherwise clip at the top of the display range and wash out the scene contrast.

FINISHING STEP HISTOGRAM SHAPED TONE MAPPING

The display target nits is selected at a ratio of 2x the scene FALL:

Active Display Target Nits = Max(100, min target / real display peak nits) + [2 x scene FALL × (dynamic tuning% (0-100) / 50)]

Sidenote: Definition of a Movie Scene (% change in the brightness histogram)
madVR detects movie scenes using a brightness histogram that is capable of measuring the frame peak brightness, average peak brightness and pixel distribution in the lower, middle and upper ranges of each frame. This information is used to determine when a peak in the histogram combined with a change in frame peak brightness can be considered a change in scene. Without the benefit of dynamic HDR10+ or Dolby Vision metadata, these decisions must be made in real-time by predicting significant changes in the distribution of the average brightness in the image.

A movie scene as described by dynamic tone mapping is denoted on the basis of having a visible change in APL rather than having a distinct beginning and end. By this definition, scene changes can be frequent. For instance, a muzzle flash from a gun would not be considered a scene change, but a conversation between two people that starts in front of a bright window and moves continuously into another room would be considered a visible change in APL that could benefit from a change in display target nits. Changes to the display target nits occur often enough to keep scene and corresponding APL changes smooth and largely invisible to the viewer.

[XTrojan]

Well, I'm glad you made it to the end. The only upgrade that could be recommended is a TV with a superior implementation of 24hz playback. I have some judder as well but I don't find it that annoying.

In the movie theatres, the projector has a shutter that opens and closes at high speeds, which creates the illusion that the video is moving at a framerate close to 48hz than 24hz. On a fixed display like a television, there is no shutter.

I'm thinking of putting my GTX 970 into my HTPC, it'd be overkill for sure but doubling the refresh rate and upscaling to 4k is worth a try with that kind of GPU power.

i'm not sure if my i3-4360 would be enough (dual core 3.7GHz Haswell).

24P playback is annoying, in the end i wasn't able to fix it fully but it's kinda okay.

This would be worthwhile if your display is 2160p. madVR's NNEDI3 Luma Doubling and Luma Quadrupling is known to produce impressive results when doing this type of scaling. Image doubling to 4K requires a very powerful GPU.

I'm gonna give it a try. Regarding 24P, is it possible the TV refreshes too slow to catch up with V-Sync? When 3D mode is engaged my TV disables some color accuracy which i can't get back, but this might be the reason it plays smooth on stereoscopic player?

3D mode engaged -> You can only choose "film" or "standard" mode on my TV settings.
3:3:2 Pulldown has massive motion blur and is unwatchable with "Natural" mode on, i've been really blind.

I basically put my TV settings on "Natural" mode to get the best color/settings possible, but it also enhances input lag and makes artifacts more visible, i'm not sure why this setting is available if this is the root of all evil, gonna test tomorrow.

So far i've found 0 evidence it's the players fault, tried on both DSPlayer/MPC-HC, haven't tried PowerDVD.

[weirdinin]

ok, I try to explain what Im trying to achieve. thank you for your help!

probably you know this already but cinema experience is an addon that shows certain video files before the main movie. Those files are typically trailers about upcoming movies. this gives visitors time to get set before movie starts. addon gives you feeling you are in a real cinema. I like it very much.

Unfortunately, every time my Samsung tv changes its refresh rate, it goes black for like a second and then it shows an annoying notification that refresh rate has been changed. This is something I certainly do not want to happen when trailers are shown. Usually there are several trailers and some of them are 50 or 60 fps and some 24 fps. This causes notification to appear between trailers and it breaks the flow and feeling of cinema experience.

To solve this problem, I use dvdplayer ("adjust refresh rate to match video" turned off) to show trailers and the main movie is shown by external player (mpc-hc + madvr). all trailers are shown at 60 hz thanks to dvdplayer so no refresh rate changing there. Main movie is shown in proper refresh rate thanks to mpc-hc that switch to the proper rate. I can tolerate that refresh rate notification appears once before the main movie because there's no way to prevent that happening. But i dont want that notification appears during trailers.

This is achievable when I use mpc-hc + madvr as an external player. When movie ends and mpc-hc is closed, refresh rate is changed back to original. But with dsplayer + madvr, refresh rate is not changed back to original.

Did this clarify my intentions at all ?

Use MakeMKV and Rip the main audio + video and the subs you want, it'll shrink the movie by 20-50%.

I'm not sure what you are trying to point out. That I do when I import media but how is that relevant to my issue

Thank you for combining madvr and kodi!
I have one minor issue. How do I restore original screen refresh rate after playback? Original refresh rate is 60 hz and when a movie is played, kodi changes it automatically to match the fresh rate of the movie. However, when I stop playback, refresh rate is still 24hz instead of 60hz. This results in intolerable tearing when browsing in kodi.

In madvr I have:

Choose "when media player leaves fullscreen" instead of the default setting. I had this same issue.

Thank you for the hint. I'm quite sure I tried that without luck. I already uninstalled dsplayer version of kodi and installed official package again. Maybe I try that again when I have more time.

ok, I try to explain what Im trying to achieve. thank you for your help!

probably you know this already but cinema experience is an addon that shows certain video files before the main movie. Those files are typically trailers about upcoming movies. this gives visitors time to get set before movie starts. addon gives you feeling you are in a real cinema. I like it very much.

Unfortunately, every time my Samsung tv changes its refresh rate, it goes black for like a second and then it shows an annoying notification that refresh rate has been changed. This is something I certainly do not want to happen when trailers are shown. Usually there are several trailers and some of them are 50 or 60 fps and some 24 fps. This causes notification to appear between trailers and it breaks the flow and feeling of cinema experience.

To solve this problem, I use dvdplayer ("adjust refresh rate to match video" turned off) to show trailers and the main movie is shown by external player (mpc-hc + madvr). all trailers are shown at 60 hz thanks to dvdplayer so no refresh rate changing there. Main movie is shown in proper refresh rate thanks to mpc-hc that switch to the proper rate. I can tolerate that refresh rate notification appears once before the main movie because there's no way to prevent that happening. But i dont want that notification appears during trailers.

This is achievable when I use mpc-hc + madvr as an external player. When movie ends and mpc-hc is closed, refresh rate is changed back to original. But with dsplayer + madvr, refresh rate is not changed back to original.

Did this clarify my intentions at all ?

I don't think DSPlayer is compatible with Cinema Experience. That would be most of your problem. I can't even get the trailers to play. Try disabling DSPlayer and use Cinema Experience with DVDPlayer. All of your problems will be gone.

I got cinema experience work quite nice by defining rules so that dvdplayer plays all but main movie. Only problem is that refresh rate is not changed back after main movie ends.
I like so much the quality of madvr that there's no returning back to dvdplayer... so disabling dsplayer is not a way for me to go. I would rather go back to external player than using dvdplayer.
I'll try different settings later when I have more time to tinker. Perhaps by trial and error I'll get this work. I'll report here if that happens. Suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you all for your help.

[Warner306]

ok, I try to explain what Im trying to achieve. thank you for your help!

probably you know this already but cinema experience is an addon that shows certain video files before the main movie. Those files are typically trailers about upcoming movies. this gives visitors time to get set before movie starts. addon gives you feeling you are in a real cinema. I like it very much.

Unfortunately, every time my Samsung tv changes its refresh rate, it goes black for like a second and then it shows an annoying notification that refresh rate has been changed. This is something I certainly do not want to happen when trailers are shown. Usually there are several trailers and some of them are 50 or 60 fps and some 24 fps. This causes notification to appear between trailers and it breaks the flow and feeling of cinema experience.

To solve this problem, I use dvdplayer ("adjust refresh rate to match video" turned off) to show trailers and the main movie is shown by external player (mpc-hc + madvr). all trailers are shown at 60 hz thanks to dvdplayer so no refresh rate changing there. Main movie is shown in proper refresh rate thanks to mpc-hc that switch to the proper rate. I can tolerate that refresh rate notification appears once before the main movie because there's no way to prevent that happening. But i dont want that notification appears during trailers.

This is achievable when I use mpc-hc + madvr as an external player. When movie ends and mpc-hc is closed, refresh rate is changed back to original. But with dsplayer + madvr, refresh rate is not changed back to original.

Did this clarify my intentions at all ?

Use MakeMKV and Rip the main audio + video and the subs you want, it'll shrink the movie by 20-50%.

I'm not sure what you are trying to point out. That I do when I import media but how is that relevant to my issue

Thank you for combining madvr and kodi!
I have one minor issue. How do I restore original screen refresh rate after playback? Original refresh rate is 60 hz and when a movie is played, kodi changes it automatically to match the fresh rate of the movie. However, when I stop playback, refresh rate is still 24hz instead of 60hz. This results in intolerable tearing when browsing in kodi.

In madvr I have:

Choose "when media player leaves fullscreen" instead of the default setting. I had this same issue.

Thank you for the hint. I'm quite sure I tried that without luck. I already uninstalled dsplayer version of kodi and installed official package again. Maybe I try that again when I have more time.

ok, I try to explain what Im trying to achieve. thank you for your help!

probably you know this already but cinema experience is an addon that shows certain video files before the main movie. Those files are typically trailers about upcoming movies. this gives visitors time to get set before movie starts. addon gives you feeling you are in a real cinema. I like it very much.

Unfortunately, every time my Samsung tv changes its refresh rate, it goes black for like a second and then it shows an annoying notification that refresh rate has been changed. This is something I certainly do not want to happen when trailers are shown. Usually there are several trailers and some of them are 50 or 60 fps and some 24 fps. This causes notification to appear between trailers and it breaks the flow and feeling of cinema experience.

To solve this problem, I use dvdplayer ("adjust refresh rate to match video" turned off) to show trailers and the main movie is shown by external player (mpc-hc + madvr). all trailers are shown at 60 hz thanks to dvdplayer so no refresh rate changing there. Main movie is shown in proper refresh rate thanks to mpc-hc that switch to the proper rate. I can tolerate that refresh rate notification appears once before the main movie because there's no way to prevent that happening. But i dont want that notification appears during trailers.

This is achievable when I use mpc-hc + madvr as an external player. When movie ends and mpc-hc is closed, refresh rate is changed back to original. But with dsplayer + madvr, refresh rate is not changed back to original.

Did this clarify my intentions at all ?

I don't think DSPlayer is compatible with Cinema Experience. That would be most of your problem. I can't even get the trailers to play. Try disabling DSPlayer and use Cinema Experience with DVDPlayer. All of your problems will be gone.

I got cinema experience work quite nice by defining rules so that dvdplayer plays all but main movie. Only problem is that refresh rate is not changed back after main movie ends.
I like so much the quality of madvr that there's no returning back to dvdplayer... so disabling dsplayer is not a way for me to go. I would rather go back to external player than using dvdplayer.
I'll try different settings later when I have more time to tinker. Perhaps by trial and error I'll get this work. I'll report here if that happens. Suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thank you all for your help.

Edit: I made a mistake earlier. Cinema Experience is working fine with the correct version. No special rules are needed. I provided a copy of 4.0.13 in Other Resources.

[Warner306]

I'm thinking of putting my GTX 970 into my HTPC, it'd be overkill for sure but doubling the refresh rate and upscaling to 4k is worth a try with that kind of GPU power.

i'm not sure if my i3-4360 would be enough (dual core 3.7GHz Haswell).

24P playback is annoying, in the end i wasn't able to fix it fully but it's kinda okay.

This would be worthwhile if your display is 2160p. madVR's NNEDI3 Luma Doubling and Luma Quadrupling is known to produce impressive results when doing this type of scaling. Image doubling to 4K requires a very powerful GPU.

I'm gonna give it a try. Regarding 24P, is it possible the TV refreshes too slow to catch up with V-Sync? When 3D mode is engaged my TV disables some color accuracy which i can't get back, but this might be the reason it plays smooth on stereoscopic player?

3D mode engaged -> You can only choose "film" or "standard" mode on my TV settings.
3:3:2 Pulldown has massive motion blur and is unwatchable with "Natural" mode on, i've been really blind.

I basically put my TV settings on "Natural" mode to get the best color/settings possible, but it also enhances input lag and makes artifacts more visible, i'm not sure why this setting is available if this is the root of all evil, gonna test tomorrow.

So far i've found 0 evidence it's the players fault, tried on both DSPlayer/MPC-HC, haven't tried PowerDVD.

I can't see a modern TV not refreshing at the same rate as Blu-ray content. But I can believe that some processing created by the TV to create 24p playback (e.g. refreshing at 120 hz by repeating frames evenly) could create some video lag. With my TV, it seems to be just enough to create occasional lip-sync issues. It is a high-end Samsung LED, but it seems to suffer from a form of lag that is similar to input lag when playing video games. I will replace the TV when OLED becomes more affordable. But, you are right, it is unlikely to be the player or the audio renderer. From much experimentation with many players and renderers, the combination of Kodi refresh rate switching with ReClock audio rendering has given the best results. But I'm not impressed by my Samsung LED. It should not suffer from this problem.

[XTrojan]

This would be worthwhile if your display is 2160p. madVR's NNEDI3 Luma Doubling and Luma Quadrupling is known to produce impressive results when doing this type of scaling. Image doubling to 4K requires a very powerful GPU.

I'm gonna give it a try. Regarding 24P, is it possible the TV refreshes too slow to catch up with V-Sync? When 3D mode is engaged my TV disables some color accuracy which i can't get back, but this might be the reason it plays smooth on stereoscopic player?

3D mode engaged -> You can only choose "film" or "standard" mode on my TV settings.
3:3:2 Pulldown has massive motion blur and is unwatchable with "Natural" mode on, i've been really blind.

I basically put my TV settings on "Natural" mode to get the best color/settings possible, but it also enhances input lag and makes artifacts more visible, i'm not sure why this setting is available if this is the root of all evil, gonna test tomorrow.

So far i've found 0 evidence it's the players fault, tried on both DSPlayer/MPC-HC, haven't tried PowerDVD.

I can't see a modern TV not refreshing at the same rate as Blu-ray content. But I can believe that some processing created by the TV to create 24p playback (e.g. refreshing at 120 hz by repeating frames evenly) could create some video lag. With my TV, it seems to be just enough to create occasional lip-sync issues. It is a high-end Samsung LED, but it seems to suffer from a form of lag that is similar to input lag when playing video games. I will replace the TV when OLED becomes more affordable. But, you are right, it is unlikely to be the player or the audio renderer. From much experimentation with many players and renderers, the combination of Kodi refresh rate switching with ReClock audio rendering has given the best results. But I'm not impressed by my Samsung LED. It should not suffer from this problem.

As far as i can tell, it actually was the cause, lol.

I tested watching 20min and it was smooth as heck and no artifacts.

My only guess would be that "natural" mode is actually "picture" mode that increases saturation, sharpness etc but when it gets in contact with the movie renderer they collide and destroy each other causing artifacts and lag for the TV.

[weirdinin]

Edit: I made a mistake earlier. Cinema Experience is working fine with the correct version. No special rules are needed. I provided a copy of 4.0.13 in Other Resources.

Thank you. You are very kind. Need to test that when I get home from work.
It's easy to get one thing to work but when there's need to get several things to work together, problems are inevitable. But when you get all working, it gives you very satisfying feeling. Now back to work -->

[aracnoz]

i'm working on Isengard, any further update will be made only on this version, the first beta should be out in a few days and you'll be pleased to know that it works perfectly with all recent DSPlayer update

with isengard the team kodi added in "video - library" an option "Select first unwatched TV show season/episode" to select direclty the last unwatched episode when we enter in a serie folder, I found this option very useful and then I added an ulterior option "Select last TV show on first entry" to choose if select the last watched tvshow or played tvshow, when we enter the first time in Tv Show, in this way we have a total comfort

@weirdinin

i added for Isengard DSPlayer an option to choose if change refresh only with DVDPlayer, only with DSPlayer or Both

maybe can be useful for someone else

[neeto33]

LAV Source isn't working for VIDEO_TS folders.
DVD Navigator should be though..

Any fix for this? I've got exactly the same problem.

[oldpoem]

LAV Source isn't working for VIDEO_TS folders.
DVD Navigator should be though..

Any fix for this? I've got exactly the same problem.

To be able to use DSplayer with DVD folder (ifo) you need to config dvd navigator as source AND splitter. But then it's not working 100% some dvd won't play so convert iso to mkv seem to be best option.

[neeto33]

LAV Source isn't working for VIDEO_TS folders.
DVD Navigator should be though..

Any fix for this? I've got exactly the same problem.

To be able to use DSplayer with DVD folder (ifo) you need to config dvd navigator as source AND splitter. But then it's not working 100% some dvd won't play so convert iso to mkv seem to be best option.

Yep got dvdnavigator as both source AND splitter.
Any clue on why some work and some don't? anything to do with them being on smb mount on NAS?

[Bjur]

aracnoz@: I'm about to start over on Kodi DSplayer version (uninstall 14.1 instead of overwrite) and install MadVRversion, but is it recommended to install current build and update to Isengaard Beta when you have it ready or wait and install Isengaard Beta from scratch?

Also what is the verdict on Reclock. Is it recommended to use or leave?

Thanks for you work again. I can only bow to your impressive/impossible work you have done for this community
PS: and also thanks to Warner306 for assisting and guides.

[steelman1991]

i'm working on Isengard, any further update will be made only on this version, the first beta should be out in a few days and you'll be pleased to know that it works perfectly with all recent DSPlayer update

with isengard the team kodi added in "video - library" an option "Select first unwatched TV show season/episode" to select direclty the last unwatched episode when we enter in a serie folder, I found this option very useful and then I added an ulterior option "Select last TV show on first entry" to choose if select the last watched tvshow or played tvshow, when we enter the first time in Tv Show, in this way we have a total comfort

@weirdinin

i added for Isengard DSPlayer an option to choose if change refresh only with DVDPlayer, only with DSPlayer or Both

maybe can be useful for someone else

Excellent news - been waiting on an Isengard build - to take advantage of 'move direct to first unwatched TV Show'

[oldpoem]

Any fix for this? I've got exactly the same problem.

To be able to use DSplayer with DVD folder (ifo) you need to config dvd navigator as source AND splitter. But then it's not working 100% some dvd won't play so convert iso to mkv seem to be best option.

Yep got dvdnavigator as both source AND splitter.
Any clue on why some work and some don't? anything to do with them being on smb mount on NAS?

It just don't work with some DVD sdtructure even with using other directshow based player (MPC-HC etc.). Since DVD Navigator filter is not in development anymore and no replacement filter for it, that's the end of dvd ifo playback.

[XTrojan]

aracnoz@: I'm about to start over on Kodi DSplayer version (uninstall 14.1 instead of overwrite) and install MadVRversion, but is it recommended to install current build and update to Isengaard Beta when you have it ready or wait and install Isengaard Beta from scratch?

Also what is the verdict on Reclock. Is it recommended to use or leave?

Thanks for you work again. I can only bow to your impressive/impossible work you have done for this community
PS: and also thanks to Warner306 for assisting and guides.

Bitstream : Enable if you're using pulldown, and also enable media speed correction even if it isn't recommended, the audio won't be near perfect with the lips though.

PCM : I wouldn't use PCM, but if you're going to you can basically mess around with the audio as you wish since your PC is decoding it.

I don't use reclock as i have no benefit for it, i don't see a difference on 24P playback with or without reclock(bitstream).

The best quality in my opinion is bitstream, but getting correct sync and perfect video smoothness with bitstream is a major challenge(or well it was for me).
If you can get it to work, you basically got true blu-ray playback with MadVR filters (as long as your TV settings are correct as well).