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WeTek Core (24p HD Netflix / HD Audio / Lollipop / OpenELEC / 4K / HEVC)
Does any body know the Samsung's equivalent of "cinema mode" just trying to work out if my tv can do that...model eh5300 series..
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Ok thanks noggin. I'm going to try and condense all this. I thought you were saying earlier that a 24hz picture on a 60hz screen is simply not possible under any conditions as 24 does not'fit' into 60. I think what you're actually saying, and wrxstasy is saying, is that it is possible as long as you have something like real cinema or cinema mode which will then show a simple 24hz picture. My tv , when pressing the'info' button on the tv remote shows that it is displaying kodi at 24hz (when adjust refresh rate is selected in kodi) I really should have mentioned that earlier.

So if I've finally understood you both correctly my tv *is* showing a true 24hz picture. And in that case I can get a wetek core as it will show 24p at 23.976. I really hope that I've understood this correctly as I'm losing the will to live and you and wrxstasy probably are too Big Grin
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(2015-11-29, 19:00)mwake Wrote: Does any body know the Samsung's equivalent of "cinema mode" just trying to work out if my tv can do that...model eh5300 series..

Most samsung models use something called cinema smooth. Your tv uses something called "film mode" and is described in the manual as "processes film signals from all sources automatically and adjusts the picture for optimum quality." This is different from movie mode which the manual says simply adjusts the lighting. Edit : Actually scratch that, your tv manual shows that it has cinema smooth too.
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I've been eating Red Snakes so still have my sugar rush going !

Its all a learning process.
Just looked up the Tech Specs of your TV and these are the applicable WeTek Core compatible refresh rates it supports:

23.97/24/29.976/30/50/59.94/60Hz

So as you've have concluded with 24p Real Cinema on the LG TV you have you will be fine to get smooth 24p video playback Smile

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(2015-11-29, 19:26)wrxtasy Wrote: I've been eating Red Snakes so still have my sugar rush going !

Its all a learning process.
Just looked up the Tech Specs of your TV and these are the applicable WeTek Core compatible refresh rates it supports:

23.97/24/29.976/30/50/59.94/60Hz

So as you've have concluded with 24p Real Cinema on the LG TV you have you will be fine to get smooth 24p video playback Smile


Thank the Lord in heaven that's finally sorted out.Laugh Thanks very much to you and noggin.
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(2015-11-29, 17:43)wrxtasy Wrote: Will give this a test run tomorrow CT, now that I'm back on my feet and feeling human again. It might fix my Android NFS > Kodi > Mac sharing issues hopefully.

Make sure that the server does not enforce nfs v4, you might have to play with the server's settings though, this is the share I tried to mount

Code:
DiskStation> exportfs -v
/volume1/Portage
                192.168.0.0/24(rw,async,insecure,no_root_squash,no_subtree_check,insecure_locks,anonuid=1025,anongid=100,sec=sys,rw,no_root_squash,no_all_squash)
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From what I have read OS X is capable of using NFS version 4 (NFSv4) as a client, but not as a server. So all looks good.

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(2015-11-29, 19:11)Gmjh Wrote: Ok thanks noggin. I'm going to try and condense all this. I thought you were saying earlier that a 24hz picture on a 60hz screen is simply not possible under any conditions as 24 does not'fit' into 60.
No - I was saying it isn't possible to watch a 24Hz picture at 60Hz without having 3:2.

Many modern TV screens don't have a fixed refresh rate, they are able to show a number of different refresh rates, rather than having to convert all their inputs to a single refresh rate. However there ARE TVs that only run at 60Hz refresh, and they do add 3:2 to 24p inputs. However other sets will happily display 60Hz at 60Hz, 50Hz at 50Hz and 24Hz at 48Hz (or in some cases 72Hz), without needing 100/120Hz processing.

Quote:I think what you're actually saying, and wrxstasy is saying, is that it is possible as long as you have something like real cinema or cinema mode which will then show a simple 24hz picture.

Yes - though it may well be showing the 24Hz source at 48Hz (i.e. showing every frame twice) as that is a closer frame rate to 50 and 60Hz than 24Hz is (so it makes other processing easier)

Quote:My tv , when pressing the'info' button on the tv remote shows that it is displaying kodi at 24hz (when adjust refresh rate is selected in kodi) I really should have mentioned that earlier.
Some TVs display their INPUT frame rate, not their display frame rate. My 40W4000 said 1080/24p on-screen but I'm pretty certain it was running 48Hz not 24Hz (I had a discussions with the product manager at Sony in Basingstoke in the UK when I bought it as there was an issue they wanted to help me with)

I have a cheap 22" bedroom TV that says "1080/24p" when it is fed a 24p input - but still adds 3:2 pulldown (It's that display I use sync playback to display on to watch 24p content sped up to 25p and displayed 50Hz with 2:2)

Quote:So if I've finally understood you both correctly my tv *is* showing a true 24hz picture. And in that case I can get a wetek core as it will show 24p at 23.976. I really hope that I've understood this correctly as I'm losing the will to live and you and wrxstasy probably are too Big Grin

I'd say it is correctly showing your 24p picture without 3:2 pulldown. Not sure I'd go as far to say "true 24Hz" as I suspect it will be a 2:2 48Hz or 3:3 72Hz, and thus look very nice and smooth and much nicer than 3:2 cadence content. I may be wrong - but native display of 24Hz is rare. In cinemas they double or triple shutter (refreshing at 48 or 72Hz) as well.

I'm sensitive to 3:2. The opening 20th/21st Century Fox animation on a Blu-ray at 3:2 depresses me greatly - I can instantly spot the judder.
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(2015-11-29, 19:26)wrxtasy Wrote: I've been eating Red Snakes so still have my sugar rush going !

Its all a learning process.
Just looked up the Tech Specs of your TV and these are the applicable WeTek Core compatible refresh rates it supports:

23.97/24/29.976/30/50/59.94/60Hz

So as you've have concluded with 24p Real Cinema on the LG TV you have you will be fine to get smooth 24p video playback Smile

I looked at the manual online too - but beware - those are INPUT specs, not display specs. A number of displays will accept 23.97/24Hz inputs but add 3:2 to display them at 59.94/60Hz. You can't assume because an input is supported that it will be displayed nicely. I have at least one TV which would have those specs but 24p inputs are NOT shown without 3:2 (the TV adds it...)

"24p True Cinema" "Real Cinema" etc SHOULD mean that you don't get 3:2 - but again at least one TV I've seen used something very similar to describe that it ACCEPTED 24p inputs but it too added 3:2... Grrr...

At the end of the day your eyes are the only real way of telling - and 3:2 is so obvious to me I can usually tell very quickly. (40+ years watching PAL speed-up 2:2 stuff means 3:2 really screams at me)
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God no. So I've no idea if the lg tv is actually showing 3:2 pulldown or not? I really wouldn't know and my eyes won't tell me as I've no other real point of reference. My idea of smooth might be your idea of judder. Surely there has to be some way of knowing what it's actually outputting? It seems crazy not to be able to know what the tv is actually producing in hz.Surely when I ask my tv what it's showing via the info button and it says 24hz then it's just 24hz.
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(2015-11-29, 20:35)Gmjh Wrote: God no. So I've no idea if the lg tv is actually showing 3:2 pulldown or not? I really wouldn't know and my eyes won't tell me as I've no other real point of reference. My idea of smooth might be your idea of judder. Surely there has to be some way of knowing what it's actually outputting? It seems crazy not to be able to know what the tv is actually producing in hz .Surely when I ask my tv what it's showing via the info button and it says 24hz then it's just 24hz.

That depends whether the info button is telling you what it's input is or what it's output is. Chances are it's telling you the input - as it's unlikely it's display 24p inputs at 24Hz...

If you aren't sensitive to 3:2 - and it sounds like you aren't if you haven't noticed it - then why worry? If you are happy with your TV then you're happy with it. If you aren't - then you aren't.

I wasn't happy with mine so I replaced it.

Suspect the chances are your LG is displaying 24p sources at a nice symmetric multiple so isn't using 3:2. However my point is that just because a TV says "24p" on it's OSD it doesn't mean it isn't displaying 24p with 3:2, it's usually an indication of the input format NOT the output format.

For instance my UHD set will happily trigger Frame Rate Interpolation and make 24p film sources look like video (aka the Soap Opera Effect) but it still says 1080/24p on the OSD, even though it is probably doing something like a 1080/60p or 1080/120p interpolated output (this isn't 3:2 or 5:5 - it's making up frames in between to smooth out the motion and make everything look it was shot at 60fps or higher) Of course I disabled this as soon as I bought the TV - as I hate artificial processing of pictures. But other people love it...
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(2015-11-29, 19:25)Gmjh Wrote:
(2015-11-29, 19:00)mwake Wrote: Does any body know the Samsung's equivalent of "cinema mode" just trying to work out if my tv can do that...model eh5300 series..

Most samsung models use something called cinema smooth. Your tv uses something called "film mode" and is described in the manual as "processes film signals from all sources automatically and adjusts the picture for optimum quality." This is different from movie mode which the manual says simply adjusts the lighting. Edit : Actually scratch that, your tv manual shows that it has cinema smooth too.
Thanks for the info
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(2015-11-30, 02:47)noggin Wrote:
(2015-11-29, 20:35)Gmjh Wrote: God no. So I've no idea if the lg tv is actually showing 3:2 pulldown or not? I really wouldn't know and my eyes won't tell me as I've no other real point of reference. My idea of smooth might be your idea of judder. Surely there has to be some way of knowing what it's actually outputting? It seems crazy not to be able to know what the tv is actually producing in hz .Surely when I ask my tv what it's showing via the info button and it says 24hz then it's just 24hz.

That depends whether the info button is telling you what it's input is or what it's output is. Chances are it's telling you the input - as it's unlikely it's display 24p inputs at 24Hz...

If you aren't sensitive to 3:2 - and it sounds like you aren't if you haven't noticed it - then why worry? If you are happy with your TV then you're happy with it. If you aren't - then you aren't.

I wasn't happy with mine so I replaced it.

Suspect the chances are your LG is displaying 24p sources at a nice symmetric multiple so isn't using 3:2. However my point is that just because a TV says "24p" on it's OSD it doesn't mean it isn't displaying 24p with 3:2, it's usually an indication of the input format NOT the output format.

For instance my UHD set will happily trigger Frame Rate Interpolation and make 24p film sources look like video (aka the Soap Opera Effect) but it still says 1080/24p on the OSD, even though it is probably doing something like a 1080/60p or 1080/120p interpolated output (this isn't 3:2 or 5:5 - it's making up frames in between to smooth out the motion and make everything look it was shot at 60fps or higher) Of course I disabled this as soon as I bought the TV - as I hate artificial processing of pictures. But other people love it...

I don't really see why it seems unlikely that the output source is not being displayed. Surely the viewer is much more interested in what the output is displaying and not the input. Also if I use the tvhz app to force the hz to change to say 50hz firstly I can immediately see that the output has changed on the nexus players home screen. It looks different and is not quite as smooth looking. And the osd shows 50hz. If I then play say Netflix or YouTube on the nexus player it still shows 50hz and again looks different from the nexus players standard 60hz. I then play kodi witn a 24p video file input and it *still* shows 50hz on the osd. (And of course looks totally different from when the osd is showing 24hz) Everything points to the osd displaying the output not the input.


In addition the tv plays 24hz absolutely perfectly apart from the tell tale tiny glitch every 40 seconds or so. Which indicates the output is 24 but not the 23.976 the wetek core will produce.

Also, when being fed a 24 source the tv automatically switches to real cinema and that's when the osd shows 24hz.

It seems to me that an osd displaying the input is pointless and useless. The osd showing the actual hz output makes sense and is useful.

And everything about my testing indicates it's the output not the input. I could ring lg I suppose........
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Someone else may want to help by posting up what the OSD on a LG TV actually displays when fed 23.976fps video and the 24p Real Cinema mode then becomes active on LG TV's.

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I can do that tomorrow. But it's very basic and simply shows the resolution and if it's I or p followed by the hz rating.
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