[wrxtasy]

I think you may have your clips mixed up Noggin, the Scaling test is the one with the Vertical and Horizontal Lines.

Only time I saw anything out of the ordinary was the 2160p25 - 4ktest_red_border test clip displayed at 2160p60Hz. I could not read the Purple text like I was able to displaying it at 2160p50hz.

Looked pretty clean otherwise, and besides you would not be displaying video at the wrong refresh rates with Kodi Dynamic refresh switching working to sort it all out correctly anyway.

[noggin]

I think you may have your clips mixed up Noggin, the Scaling test is the one with the Vertical and Horizontal Lines.

Only time I saw anything out of the ordinary was the 2160p25 - 4ktest_red_border test clip displayed at 2160p60Hz. I could not read the Purple text like I was able to displaying it at 2160p50hz.

Yes - in editing my post I'd cut and pasted the wrong descriptions.

Looked pretty clean otherwise, and besides you would not be displaying video at the wrong refresh rates with Kodi Dynamic refresh switching working to sort it all out correctly anyway.

I think you're missing my point re disabling dynamic refresh rate.

To force 2160p content to be displayed downscaled at 1080p over an HDMI connection to a 2160p-capable display you have to forcefully disable Kodi's dynamic refresh rate switching. If you leave it enabled, fritsch's clever 'chose 2160p if playing 2160p content, even if the output resolution is set to 1080p' code kicks in I think. (Except it then gets confused)

[wrxtasy]

Yes I understand this minor annoyance...

If that is the case all we need is to revert that bit of code I would think so it Autoswitches 1080p<-->2160p properly.

Fritsch ?

[noggin]

Yes I understand this minor annoyance...

If that is the case all we need is to revert that bit of code I would think so it Autoswitches 1080p<-->2160p properly.

Fritsch ?

You want it for many situations where you want 1080p output for everything but 2160p content because the upscaling in UHD TVs is better than in Kodi usually. i.e. you want 1080p and below content played back at 1080p with the TV scaling to 2160p, and Kodi to only switch to 2160p when the output is really 2160p.

I don't know what the C2 does in scaling terms in Kodi. I'll see if I can dig out a good 1080i test sequence and see what it looks like with upscaling in the TV and Kodi.

[noggin]

OK - been pushing the boundaries on the C2 this weekend. For no real reason other than... well... because...

I have quite a lot of very high quality 1080/50i H264 4:2:2 recordings which are encoded at around 38Mbs. The only things that play them are Intel x86 boxes with enough ponies for CPU decode and deinterlace. They won't play on a Pi 1/2/3 or an ODroid - as they are only geared up for 4:2:0 consumer stuff.

So I decided to push things a bit and also see how the C2 coped with challenging content. So I've run my 38Mbs 1080/50i H264 4:2:2 stuff through ffmpeg encoding it to H265 and deinterlacing to 1080/50p prior to encoding (I've had some issues with 1080i 4:2:2 to 1080i 4:2:0 with ffmpeg in the past with odd chroma resampling artefacts interacting with interlaced motion, and I also wanted to trial YADIF vs W3FDIF)

So I encoded a 4 hour show to 1080/50p H265 4:2:0 at an average bitrate of 35Mbs. However the show varied between very challenging and very unchallenging content. And the challenging content peaked at over 80Mbs.

And on a couple of occasions the C2 has choked on H265 at this bitrate and visually started dropping frames (though the Kodi OSD doesn't reflect this). I'm playing it from a pretty fast SSD over a USB 2 connection but 80Mbs is only 10MBs so it should't be close to the limits of SSD. They are very rare - and only correlated with insanely high bitrates. When I next have a free 30 hours I'll render the same content out with a capped maximum bitrate...

** EDIT - have transferred test files at bitrates from 1Mbs to 50Mbs with the same content to the eMMC. The C2 HEVC decoder implementation in current Kodi chokes on spikes of bitrate that peak at high levels. These won't be hit in 'real world' content - but it's been an interesting stress test. And I can confirm that the ffmpeg single pass x265 encoder doesn't really do amazingly well at 1Mbs with 1080/50p **

I'm still amazed that a box like the C2 can do this though - it's playing a bleeding edge codec at high bitrates and is a very low cost device...

[Vimes]

@noggin did you buy the C2 direct from the dealer to get it at a favourable price or, from what it seems, the only one UK supplier who has it in stock at around £50 UK Pounds....?

If you got it direct did you get hit by customs charges...?

Thanks, it seems impressive enough now, with the great Dev work, to consider over a second Pi 3 - although the Pi 3's support is quite amazing, even if the hardware is a little lacking in comparison.

[noggin]

@noggin did you buy the C2 direct from the dealer to get it at a favourable price or, from what it seems, the only one UK supplier who has it in stock at around £50 UK Pounds....?

If you got it direct did you get hit by customs charges...?

Thanks, it seems impressive enough now, with the great Dev work, to consider over a second Pi 3 - although the Pi 3's support is quite amazing, even if the hardware is a little lacking in comparison.

I bought it from LIYMO / Lilliput Direct. Once you've paid for shipping and VAT (and the additional charges levied to pay the VAT) I'm not sure there's much point ordering direct from Hardkernel, and the delivery takes a lot longer from Korea. I quite like supporting UK dealers, as I like having local people you can talk to, and am happy to pay a bit extra for good service. (The guys at Lilliput Direct are great and answer emails promptly) On devices as cheap as the Raspberry Pi and the ODroid I don't hugely mind paying a bit extra.

I always expect to pay VAT on imported goods (though I'm not sure I get asked to pay duty that often) - never understand why people get miffed at paying them. I suspect it is because they aren't included in the sale price on the website. I always mentally factor in a 20%+ addition on anything I import from outside the EU (with a bit more as you usually get stung for the pleasure of paying VAT from some couriers).

[Vimes]

@noggin did you buy the C2 direct from the dealer to get it at a favourable price or, from what it seems, the only one UK supplier who has it in stock at around £50 UK Pounds....?

If you got it direct did you get hit by customs charges...?

Thanks, it seems impressive enough now, with the great Dev work, to consider over a second Pi 3 - although the Pi 3's support is quite amazing, even if the hardware is a little lacking in comparison.

I bought it from LIYMO / Lilliput Direct. Once you've paid for shipping and VAT (and the additional charges levied to pay the VAT) I'm not sure there's much point ordering direct from Hardkernel, and the delivery takes a lot longer from Korea. I quite like supporting UK dealers, as I like having local people you can talk to, and am happy to pay a bit extra for good service. (The guys at Lilliput Direct are great and answer emails promptly) On devices as cheap as the Raspberry Pi and the ODroid I don't hugely mind paying a bit extra.

I always expect to pay VAT on imported goods (though I'm not sure I get asked to pay duty that often) - never understand why people get miffed at paying them. I suspect it is because they aren't included in the sale price on the website. I always mentally factor in a 20%+ addition on anything I import from outside the EU (with a bit more as you usually get stung for the pleasure of paying VAT from some couriers).

I'm glad that you named the company as I had temporarily lost that.

As it seems close to the Wektek Hub being released, although more than the cost of the C2 I imagine, it will be good to see what that brings as a player. Their support is proving to be pretty impressive.

The C2 is showing itself, with the good support it has been given, to be quite a capable player.

Thanks for your reply

[sharky1337]

Hey,

I'm looking for a device which is capable to deinterlacing 1080i live tv ( tvheadend ) with yadif (x2). I'm watching a lot of sports on sky . Does the c2 offers me that performance or do I have to switch to a x86 device ?

Thank you !

regards, sharky

[noggin]

Hey,

I'm looking for a device which is capable to deinterlacing 1080i live tv ( tvheadend ) with yadif (x2). I'm watching a lot of sports on sky . Does the c2 offers me that performance or do I have to switch to a x86 device ?

Thank you !

regards, sharky

Raspberry Pi 2 and 3 does a YADIF 2x - it's what is called MMAL Advanced. Pi 2 needs (or needed) a mild overclock for 1080/50i, Pi 3 is fine at default.

ODroid C1/C1+ and C2 (and things like the Wetek Core) all have very good quality YADIF-level (though not using YADIF algorithm) 50i to 50p 2x deinterlace.

Chromebox and similar level Celerons do Motion Compensative, lower end Intel (older mainly) only Motion Adaptive.

All of them are good quality for 576i/1080i DVB-T/T2/S/S2 TV viewing. (And the ODroid C2 now has YADIF 2x for DVD software decode MPEG2 - which was a problem previously)

[sharky1337]

Hey Noggin,

thanks for your detailed answer . Didn't know that the rpi2 and 3 are that powerfull.

You wrote Odroids have a YADIF-Level deinterlacing but not using the YADIF algorithm.

Does it mean the chip is doing the deinterlacing by default ?

[noggin]

Hey Noggin,

thanks for your detailed answer . Didn't know that the rpi2 and 3 are that powerfull.

Yes - there are some smart people pushing the Pi hard. There is, I think, some GPU assistance in the MMAL advanced deinterlacing. AIUI it's a YADIF 2x.

On a Series 1 Pi (A/B/A+/B+/Zero) you will get MMAL Advanced (i.e. YADIF 2x) for 576/50i but only MMAL Bob (which is Bob with some improved vertical filtering) for 1080/50i.

It's one of the things that makes the Pi such a great little media player - the Pi 3 especially. The GPU/VPU is very good for its age and pretty much perfect if you don't need HEVC, UHD or bit streamed HD audio. (It does PCM 5.1/7.1 no problem - including lossless decode of DTS-HD MA and Dolby True HD)

You wrote Odroids have a YADIF-Level deinterlacing but not using the YADIF algorithm.

Sorry I wasn't clear. The hardware decoded video (H264/AVC, MPEG2, VC-1 and H265/HEVC) is deinterlaced using hardware deinterlacing. Not sure what algorithm precisely is used - think it is described as 'Edge Enhancing Motion Adaptive'.

However DVD MPEG2 is a special case and is decoded in software by the CPU and also deinterlaced by the CPU using YADIF 2x. It's a special case for DVDs. Prior to wrxtasy's work this weekend, native interlaced DVDs were effectively unplayable on the C2.

Live TV MPEG2 (SD and HD) is deinterlaced in hardware.

Does it mean the chip is doing the deinterlacing by default ?

By default there is hardware deinterlace on the C2 - but DVDs are an exception.

[noggin]

Should also add that the C2 also does a great job deinterlacing 1080i to 1080/50p.

[wrxtasy]

Summing it up:

• Hardware decoding and deinterlacing of virtually all video content, except Interlaced DVD ISO Rips containing the mpeg2 .vob combo.
  
• mpeg2 DVD's use Software decoding and YADIF 2x deinterlacing for excellent results. Virtually indistinguishable from the excellent AML Hardware deinterlacing.
  
• VC-1 content playback still has some minor stuttering issues on AML S905's
  
• No HiP10 Anime or 4K HDR decoding either.
  
• as AML S8xx/S9xx's use Hardware deinterlacing for almost everything, you don't get a Kodi GUI slowdown as you are not robbing CPU/GPU cycles to actually do the deinterlacing. Try pulling up an EPG on an RPi2 and you will see what I mean.
  
• The main Audio limitation is 7.1 DTS-HD MA/HRA, only the 5.1 DTS Core will be bitstreamed (probably will be fixed going forward)
  
• DD+ / EAC3 will be output as PCM 2.0

A dynamically updated blog of features and development is kept in Post #2 of this thread.

This is now my main viewing platform for Kodi and Broadcast TV. For my uses pretty much everything "Just Works"
The AML Edge Enhanced Motion Adaptive Hardware deinterlacing is really nice for watching fast action sports like Aussie Rules Footy !
(fastest, most skillful and brutal game in the world BTW !)

[noggin]

VC-1 content playback still has some minor stuttering issues on AML S905's

I think that's a bit of an understatement. Interlaced VC-1 is currently very broken, not just minor stuttering. 1080/59.94i (aka 1080i29.97) is unwatchable. (Interlaced VC-1 is also very broken on Linux Intel systems, though fine on Intel under Windows, and also fine on the Raspberry Pi, with a couple of exceptions that are being investigated)

Interlaced VC-1 is relatively rare, as VC-1 is really only used for Blu-ray, and is far less popular than AVC/H264 for mastering, and interlaced 1080i is really only used for concert and sport releases. (Music concerts are the usual source of interlaced Blu-ray, though many European TV releases are 1080i, as the Blu-ray standard doesn't include a 25p option for some, mad, reason)

I haven't tried watching any progressive VC-1 yet so can't comment on stutter on 23.976/24.000p VC-1.