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OSMC announced new Vero4k, opinions?
#16
(2017-02-25, 19:35)wesk05 Wrote: What about this on Linux?

(2017-02-21, 19:34)fritsch Wrote: You won't get HDR, no matter what display. We have 8 bit visuals.

AMLogic is special. It's basically a blackbox. The above quote is for linux and X11.
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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#17
(2017-02-25, 14:12)noggin Wrote: I wonder what 'supported' means. I can play back HDR10 HEVC 2160/59.94p stuff on my S905 boxes (which don't technically have HDR support). It looks horrid presumably as it is being replayed and displayed as if it is 709 (not Rec 2020) and isn't being displayed with PQ and the EOTF that HDR10 uses.

Then I hope that there's a way to properly display HDR content without the HDR information, so with the correct colorspace so it won't look worse than normal content.
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#18
I can already play HDR content on the HDR capable AML S905X Xiaomi Mi Box sent to my non HDR 4K TV and color output looks normal.

However try that same test on a AML S905 that does not support HDR and the color output looks washed out.

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#19
(2017-02-26, 15:39)fritsch Wrote: AMLogic is special. It's basically a blackbox. The above quote is for linux and X11.
The output is still limited to 8-bit with LibreELEC on Amlogic S905X (kzsaq build# 8.0.0c 2/23/17). The build seem to pass HDR metadata, but the extended colorimetry flag (Rec.2020) is sent inconsistently, it works only for 4K 60fps content.

This is what kzsaq said:
Quote:There are 2 things that have to be set: "HDR Mode" which is currently an equivalent to "Auto" in my builds and display mode which is handled by Kodi in LE. What needs to be added is Deep Colour mode support detection, Deep Colour switch and proper display mode handling.
https://forum.libreelec.tv/thread-3193-p...l#pid24841

Maybe it will be different on OSMC.
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#20
I never knew there was an Audio limitation on the AML S905X for Hi -Res Audio - FLAC, AAC ...
kszaq Wrote:S905X is (currently) limited to 96kHz due to on-chip DAC, S905 can output up to 192kHz.

Discussion details HERE

Makes the AML S905's even more valuable. Wink

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#21
I've never understood the value proposition of the Vero (now on revision 3) compared to similar hardware/chipsets available at the time of release. The original Vero had support for 3 years when it shipped in February of 2015 and now the Vero3 has support for 5 years (through spring of 2022). There is still another year of support left for the original Vero, which I think means it will probably have Leia available before support "stops" (though no reason they might not continue to support). I do wonder how many of the original Vero devices are still in use running OSMC/Kodi and how many have been replaced by the Vero2 or another device due to better features (4k, h265 hardware decode).

With similar hardware (s905/s905x) at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost and more and more powerful chipsets coming out every year or two (some being supported/developed for Kodi, some not), it makes more sense to me to just plan on replacing my Kodi device every so often. Some care has to be taken in choosing a specific device that works well with Kodi, so that is one advantage for the Vero because it is guaranteed to work.

I've been quite pleased with an Odroid-C2. The gigabit ethernet has no issues and iperf shows it can run at true gigabit speed, so I am unsure why fast ethernet on the Vero3 is needed unless the network adapter is like the original Vero and can run at gigabit speed but is connected to a bus that can't handle gigabit throughput.

I haven't looked at OSMC in about 2 years, are there any great apps in the app store, maybe something for Netflix that would differentiate the Vero/OSMC from other distros that include Kodi?
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#22
(2017-02-26, 18:30)wesk05 Wrote:
(2017-02-26, 15:39)fritsch Wrote: AMLogic is special. It's basically a blackbox. The above quote is for linux and X11.
The output is still limited to 8-bit with LibreELEC on Amlogic S905X (kzsaq build# 8.0.0c 2/23/17). The build seem to pass HDR metadata, but the extended colorimetry flag (Rec.2020) is sent inconsistently, it works only for 4K 60fps content.

This is what kzsaq said:
Quote:There are 2 things that have to be set: "HDR Mode" which is currently an equivalent to "Auto" in my builds and display mode which is handled by Kodi in LE. What needs to be added is Deep Colour mode support detection, Deep Colour switch and proper display mode handling.
https://forum.libreelec.tv/thread-3193-p...l#pid24841

Maybe it will be different on OSMC.

Highly doubtful of if being any different. expect cheap chinese amlogic device performance with same limitations as LE / OE, im not saying thats bad as i personally think LE on amlogic works well and by far one of the best bangs for your buck, beating out PI3 even...
Main System - HTPC - Intel I3 6300 - Asrock z170 - 16 GB DDR4 - 128gb SSD - 65" UHD HDR Sony Android TV - Pioneer VSX 1130-K - 7.2.2 speakers
Other devices currently in use - 55" 3D UHD LG TV - 2 Fire TV's - Nexus Player - MiniMX s905 - Voyo Vmac Mini
Ubuntu Server - 12 TB NAS - MYSQL - Torrent Box
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#23
Looks like the new Vero is shipping and at least one customer has actually received their order already, so hopefully some reviews will be coming shortly. I suspect dukester is correct and that the device won't be anything special compared to other s905/s905x devices or at least the ones that work with LE / OE already.
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#24
Vero 4K added to the START HERE - Pick the Right Kodi Box (updated April 2017)

Regardless of price - Tight Integration of Firmware / Software and the inclusion of the all important and always overlooked - Wireless remote control, that actually has a STOP button has appeal.

Newbies and mainstream consumer really just want a Plug n Play Kodi device that is stable and easy to use and comes with after sales, often personalised support.
I'm not seeing other AMLogic (Android) LibreELEC / OSMC S905(x) device sellers including Wireless remotes that work seamlessly out of the box.

I even hear whispers of possible 1080p 3D Frame Packed support Wink

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#25
Looking at the updated START HERE important thread you mentioned was updated, in every place the Vero 4K shows up, I see my Odroid C2 there as well.

I will totally agree that for some, the additional price of the Vero 4K may be worth it to get personalized support and that the inclusion of a working out of the box wireless remote is a very nice touch. Myself, I went with a C2 and the MINIX A2 Lite remote recommended in the C2 thread. I'd say total cost was about half that of a Vero 4K, but I did have to customize the Kodi remote file to get all of the buttons to do what I want and of course the labels on some of the buttons don't match their function (STOP as you mentioned).

All that said, I'm not sure exactly what the personalized support gets the average consumer. Yes, there are very quick acknowledgements of issues in the OSMC forums. In some cases there are quick fixes provided as well, but in others there are not. There are several owners of the original Vero that have waited 2 months for a fix to some stuttering issues on certain videos which occurred after an update to Krypton. The OSMC team can fix/address some issues themselves, and for others they need additional resources from Kodi developers, the hardware vendor or developers that work on a supporting a specific hardware platform like imx6.

Being based on the work of other projects and developers, there is only so much a specific Kodi/Linux distro can do to encourage issues to be resolved quickly. If some consumers think the device performance and level of support they get with a Vero 4K is worth the price, I have no problem with that. I don't understand or agree, but that's what free markets are all about.

*Edit: Since the C2 is based on S905 and the Vero 4K on the S905x, there are some slight differences in codec support.

*Edit2: Full disclosure, I've had a negative opinion of the Vero line of media players ever since the first Vero was released and responses to questions about what was under the hood, where it was made, and how it was any different than the Cubox-i2w were very cagey. It took an owner taking one apart and posting images of the guts to confirm that the device was made by SolidRun and was very similar to a Cubox.
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#26
Post transferred....

(2017-05-12, 06:14)auren Wrote: Hi. Can anyone tell me what they think of the Vero 4K? Just wondering if anyone in the community already has a Vero 4K. I saw it included in the "Start Here" section and it got me curious. But noone seems to have posted any comprehensive review on it.

I suggest having a look in the OSMC forums - there is a lot of commonality between Kodi Krypton running on OSMC and Kodi Krypton running on LibreELEC - there is a bunch of code sharing that occurs.
Sam Nazarko, the Vero 4K dev. even bases his AMLogic Linux Kernel on the common one we (meaning LibreELEC developers) use for AMLogic S905 LibreELEC devices.

That's Open Source for you - a sharing of ideas and code fixes. Wink

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#27
(2017-05-12, 06:50)wrxtasy Wrote: Post transferred....

I suggest having a look in the OSMC forums - there is a lot of commonality between Kodi Krypton running on OSMC and Kodi Krypton running on LibreELEC - there is a bunch of code sharing that occurs.
Sam Nazarko, the Vero 4K dev. even bases his AMLogic Linux Kernel on the common one we (meaning LibreELEC developers) use for AMLogic S905 LibreELEC devices.

That's Open Source for you - a sharing of ideas and code fixes. Wink

Thanks, wrxtasy Smile
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#28
(2017-05-12, 06:50)wrxtasy Wrote: Post transferred....

(2017-05-12, 06:14)auren Wrote: Hi. Can anyone tell me what they think of the Vero 4K? Just wondering if anyone in the community already has a Vero 4K. I saw it included in the "Start Here" section and it got me curious. But noone seems to have posted any comprehensive review on it.

I suggest having a look in the OSMC forums - there is a lot of commonality between Kodi Krypton running on OSMC and Kodi Krypton running on LibreELEC - there is a bunch of code sharing that occurs.
Sam Nazarko, the Vero 4K dev. even bases his AMLogic Linux Kernel on the common one we (meaning LibreELEC developers) use for AMLogic S905 LibreELEC devices.

That's Open Source for you - a sharing of ideas and code fixes. Wink

We don't actually use the LE common kernel. It had some sound issues with things like passthrough (as it doesn't use the sysfs approach). We initially picked Mateusz' tree, but we are now moving to AMLogic's upstream repository [1]. It's similar, but gives us full Git history (and is synced regularly from their Git server), so it's easier to track changes. The tarball drop from AML approach was quite frustrating, but fortunately we no longer have to deal with this. The Nougat changes for example bring a ton of unnecessary (and unexpected) DT changes that are harder to track if you pick Mateusz' single-merge commit.

We also have 4.9-in-progress tree here [2].

I do (and will continue) to PR anything that's mutually beneficial for us.

There are a couple of reviews here:

http://www.joypad.ch/all-review-list/vero-4k/ (one for Google Translate perhaps..)
https://discourse.osmc.tv/t/vero-4k-very...ssed/35627
https://discourse.osmc.tv/t/vero-4k-revi...poll/23328
https://discourse.osmc.tv/t/vero4k-review/23395/
https://discourse.osmc.tv/t/vero-4k-firs...ions/23251

I will send some to reviewers soon so that we can get some more reviews on this device.

Sam

[1] https://github.com/osmc/vero3-linux/tree/3.14-sync
[2] https://github.com/osmc/vero3-linux/tree/4.9
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#29
Thx. Sam.

I must admit I only skimmed over the first page of vero3 - v3.14 Linux Kernel commits and it looked a bit familiar.

Question - and this get's asked a lot now - especially for a 4K capable device....

Can the Vero 4K handle streaming high bitrate 4K video, from a NAS over its 100M Ethernet connection ?

There are many potential buyers that simple dismiss the Vero 4K (and all AMLogic S905X) 100M platforms outright due to this very concern.

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#30
(2017-05-13, 05:12)wrxtasy Wrote: Can the Vero 4K handle streaming high bitrate 4K video, from a NAS over its 100M Ethernet connection ?

There are many potential buyers that simple dismiss the Vero 4K (and all AMLogic S905X) 100M platforms outright due to this very concern.

Yes. Without issue.

The Vero 4K will play 4K UHD Blu-ray rips without issue.

I've managed to play 600Mbps Jelly Fish samples, although this requires a patch to get it to work smoothly. We don't include it in OSMC by default because content with such bitrates is not found outside of demo clips; and the patch causes slower startup times for playback.

100Mbps (Fast Ethernet) makes sense for us. We found that Gigabit Ethernet can cause issues, particularly with flow control. What's most important is that Ethernet is hooked up via a PHY and doesn't hang off the USB, so there won't be contention with other devices.
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