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DSPlayer (DirectShow Player for XBMC) Frodo build available
@aracnoz
oh la la, i don't use mouse, so I feel fortunate, lol

edit: The video is very promising Smile
HTPC
Silverstone Grandia GD05 - Intel i5 3570k -Asus H61M-G Micro-ATX - Unidad Blu-ray
MSI GTX970 4GB GDDR5 - 8 GB RAM DDR3 - AVR Denon X3400H Atmos - LG  OLED 55C7V
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(2015-03-20, 23:28)vicmanpergar Wrote: @aracnoz
oh la la, i don't use mouse, so I feel fortunate, lol

edit: The video is very promising Smile

I already started to put together a DS Player + madVR set-up guide in the hopes this project will pan-out.

madVR, when configured correctly, with a powerful enough graphics card, really is that good. Even those with integrated graphics processors would be silly to stick with DVDPlayer. I have been staring at its high bit-depth output for a long time on a weak GPU and one good GPU, and I can clearly see the difference on both systems. I would be so bold as to say it bests almost every other video renderer out there. I like it more than Kodi.
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It's up to your preference. I wouldn't want anything without Kodi library & feature. I use MadVR with Potplayer on desktop PC & as external player on HTPC . But for me the quality isn't that much different to tweaked DSplayer. So it still doesn't worth the tradeoff to be use as main player without Kodi GUI & feature.

You can't compare weak GPU / more power GPU though especially if it's different chipset vendor.
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(2015-03-21, 09:44)oldpoem Wrote: It's up to your preference. I wouldn't want anything without Kodi library & feature. I use MadVR with Potplayer on desktop PC & as external player on HTPC . But for me the quality isn't that much different to tweaked DSplayer. So it still doesn't worth the tradeoff to be use as main player without Kodi GUI & feature.

You can't compare weak GPU / more power GPU though especially if it's different chipset vendor.

Also MadVR intregrate lot of post-processing elements. So you can't just use properly configured madvr to compare with other renderer (which doesn't has any much post-processing to do). It will definitely give much better result especially resizing / scaling since other renderer tend to use just only bilinear.

But when you did post-processing such as resizing / scaling by other means and feed desired size to renderer. The differences hugely reduced. And for NNEDI3 image doubling stuff it's quite subjective. It's definitely better in Animation / graphic but for real film it's up to user preference.
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(2015-03-21, 09:56)oldpoem Wrote:
(2015-03-21, 09:44)oldpoem Wrote: It's up to your preference. I wouldn't want anything without Kodi library & feature. I use MadVR with Potplayer on desktop PC & as external player on HTPC . But for me the quality isn't that much different to tweaked DSplayer. So it still doesn't worth the tradeoff to be use as main player without Kodi GUI & feature.

You can't compare weak GPU / more power GPU though especially if it's different chipset vendor.

Also MadVR intregrate lot of post-processing elements. So you can't just use properly configured madvr to compare with other renderer (which doesn't has any much post-processing to do). It will definitely give much better result especially resizing / scaling since other renderer tend to use just only bilinear.

But when you did post-processing such as resizing / scaling by other means and feed desired size to renderer. The differences hugely reduced. And for NNEDI3 image doubling stuff it's quite subjective. It's definitely better in Animation / graphic but for real film it's up to user preference.

My eyes are trained to see minute differences in picture quality after many hours of watching. Anything madVR does creates 16-bit output (this includes RGB conversion, image scaling, debanding, etc.). madshi argues that most of this information can be preserved at 8-bits due to madVR's high-quality dithering. With a low-powered GPU, even the default scaling algorithms produce an image that is more colorful and contains more depth. madVR is also the only program that I know of that uses scaling algorithms such as Jinc and NNEDI3, which are known to be superior to many commercial image scalers. The link below compares madVR rendering to other scalers:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-th...river.html

If your graphics card is capable, I would suggest using the profile below when scaling anything to 1080p. If scaling to 4K, image doubling with NNEDI3 becomes superior. Image doubling is great, but only useful when the scaling factor is 2x or greater.

Profile: "1080p"
  • Chroma: Jinc3 + AR
  • Image: Jinc3 + AR
  • Luma Doubling: Off
  • Artifact Removal - Debanding: Low/Medium
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2
Profile: "4K"
  • Chroma: Jinc3 + AR or NNEDI332
  • Image: Jinc3 + AR
  • Luma Doubling: 2x or greater - NNEDI3 32 to 128 neurons
  • Luma Quadrupling: 3x or greater - NNEDI3 32 to 128 neurons
  • Artifact Removal - Debanding: Low/Medium
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

The newest Nvidia driver (347.52) has further improved madVR performance to the point that the picture, at least to me, is as good as it gets with these settings.

It is not all hype; there is science behind why madVR is the best at what it does. The problem with the program is that it pushes the limits of gaming graphics cards when doing things such as image doubling to 3840 x 2160 with NNEDI3. Not enough people own the hardware to use all of its features.
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(2015-03-21, 21:25)Warner306 Wrote: My eyes are trained to see minute differences in picture quality after many hours of watching. Anything madVR does creates 16-bit output (this includes RGB conversion, image scaling, debanding, etc.). madshi argues that most of this information can be preserved at 8-bits due to madVR's high-quality dithering. With a low-powered GPU, even the default scaling algorithms produce an image that is more colorful and contains more depth. madVR is also the only program that I know of that uses scaling algorithms such as Jinc and NNEDI3, which are known to be superior to many commercial image scalers. The link below compares madVR rendering to other scalers:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-th...river.html

If your graphics card is capable, I would suggest using the profile below when scaling anything to 1080p. If scaling to 4K, image doubling with NNEDI3 becomes superior. Image doubling is great, but only useful when the scaling factor is 2x or greater.

Profile: "1080p"
  • Chroma: Jinc3 + AR
  • Image: Jinc3 + AR
  • Luma Doubling: Off
  • Artifact Removal - Debanding: Low/Medium
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2
Profile: "4K"
  • Chroma: Jinc3 + AR or NNEDI332
  • Image: Jinc3 + AR
  • Luma Doubling: 2x or greater - NNEDI3 32 to 128 neurons
  • Luma Quadrupling: 3x or greater - NNEDI3 32 to 128 neurons
  • Artifact Removal - Debanding: Low/Medium
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

The newest Nvidia driver (347.52) has further improved madVR performance to the point that the picture, at least to me, is as good as it gets with these settings.

It is not all hype; there is science behind why madVR is the best at what it does. The problem with the program is that it pushes the limits of gaming graphics cards when doing things such as image doubling to 3840 x 2160 with NNEDI3. Not enough people own the hardware to use all of its features.

I used similar to your 1080p profile with debanding off. & sometimes enable Luma Doubling set to 2x or greater NNEDI3 - 32 if media is animation. For me the result is good , but still not as someone claimed far superior. Compared to my tweaked DSPlayer with ffdshow raw post processing, It might be a little more vibrant (subjective) but not to the point I'd use it in potplayer as main player. There are other Kodi feature which is a must for me such as subtitle downloading / adjust subtitle offset from remote etc. Which is hard to impossible to accomplished on other MadVR-supported player.

It's my preference though. Let's hope aracnoz can tackle these issues & we can have the best of both world.
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@ oldpoem

You might enjoy the tutorial below which combines ffdshow with madVR to create the high-quality scaling for different profiles:
http://www.ezoden.com/htpc/4/how-to-setu...troduction.

I noticed aracnoz got a reply on the Doom9 forums regarding the problem with mouse commands not being recognized. It has now been fixed. Hopefully, he is close to having a test build available in the coming month.
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(2015-03-22, 01:07)Warner306 Wrote: @ oldpoem

You might enjoy the tutorial below which combines ffdshow with madVR to create the high-quality scaling for different profiles:
http://www.ezoden.com/htpc/4/how-to-setu...troduction.

I noticed aracnoz got a reply on the Doom9 forums regarding the problem with mouse commands not being recognized. It has now been fixed. Hopefully, he is close to having a test build available in the coming month.

If you read this thread I was the one who pointed out that link to other ho interest to use ffdshow raw for post processing 15 months ago.

1517992 (post)


In fact I used ffdshow raw profiles for DSPlayer for years. I'm currently using it with AviSynth with Spline64resize & LSFMod for sharpening. The result was good. It's an essential to get the most out of DSPlayer without resort to use external player.
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(2015-03-22, 03:30)oldpoem Wrote:
(2015-03-22, 01:07)Warner306 Wrote: @ oldpoem

You might enjoy the tutorial below which combines ffdshow with madVR to create the high-quality scaling for different profiles:
http://www.ezoden.com/htpc/4/how-to-setu...troduction.

I noticed aracnoz got a reply on the Doom9 forums regarding the problem with mouse commands not being recognized. It has now been fixed. Hopefully, he is close to having a test build available in the coming month.

If you read this thread I was the one who pointed out that link to other ho interest to use ffdshow raw for post processing 15 months ago.

1517992 (post)


In fact I used ffdshow raw profiles for DSPlayer for years. I'm currently using it with AviSynth with Spline64resize & LSFMod for sharpening. The result was good. It's an essential to get the most out of DSPlayer without resort to use external player.

Yes, I understand. I'm not trying to push external players. I was just pointing out that Kodi community is missing something by not using madVR. I have been using madVR because I think it adds something to the experience and I don't feel like I am missing out on anything as far as the core Kodi experience is concerned - even if I am using an external player.

By all accounts, it looks like aracnoz is going to at least make it to a test build with madVR integration. The debate about what filters to use can go on, but I see no reason not to use madVR as your video renderer. Combining ffdshow raw with madVR might be the best experience for many.

I have a multi-part guide in progress that outlines the basic set-up of DSPlayer with LAV Filters and madVR. It contains images and step-by-step instructions. I know that is presumptuous, but I was bored and like to write detailed guides.
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(2015-03-22, 22:08)Warner306 Wrote: Yes, I understand. I'm not trying to push external players. I was just pointing out that Kodi community is missing something by not using madVR. I have been using madVR because I think it adds something to the experience and I don't feel like I am missing out on anything as far as the core Kodi experience is concerned - even if I am using an external player.

By all accounts, it looks like aracnoz is going to at least make it to a test build with madVR integration. The debate about what filters to use can go on, but I see no reason not to use madVR as your video renderer. Combining ffdshow raw with madVR might be the best experience for many.

I have a multi-part guide in progress that outlines the basic set-up of DSPlayer with LAV Filters and madVR. It contains images and step-by-step instructions. I know that is presumptuous, but I was bored and like to write detailed guides.

If MadVR can be intregrated & performance not suffered much. I agree that it could be default for most people. But I like to point out that while that doesn't happen yet using DSPlayer with ffdshow raw and/or avisynth script would still has some advantage over using external player. Especially when properly configured the result is not much different as some claimed.

For example in my case, most my media (70% I guess) are Asian TV shows / Asian Movies which I mostly rely on unofficial translated subtitles to be able to understand. Kodi features like subtitles download , subtitles adjusting on the fly by GUI is breaking point for me. So external player is limited to those files with built-in subtitles which is really limited.

Getting most of DSPlayer now is still my preference.

Most people here knew about MadVR (The one who willing to use DSPlayer is probably not noob in these area). And I guess many like me used MadVR as renderer on desktop pc/notebook as well whether it be MPC-HC, Be or whatever fork there is, or Potplayer , KMPlayer etc. It just that MadVR is still not seemlessly integrated in Kodi so many won't tradeoff Kodi experience to go External player route as main player.

So I knew few that loves MadVR and try to shove it in the face of who that doesn't use it. Called them obsolete, noob etc. But in the end it's user preference of how they build & watch on their HTPC. It's about options.
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Yes, agree with oldpoem
Starting from the fact that this is a completely "point of view" topic, our eyes AND tastes are not all the same, i agree that madVR is wonderful. But my actual system running DSPlayer + Lav + ffdshow raw is very good, and, summing it up, I prefer it over a system with madVR BUT without Kodi GUI.
It's simple.
Now... if a Kodi build + madVR can finally be born, I will be the first to adopt it, cos i can run it, and i can finally have both things. And this is a point of view and only that (a point of view i know i share with more).
I don't give up on madVR, i have it as a external player, but i use it very seldom. It's an option. A personal one.
HTPC
Silverstone Grandia GD05 - Intel i5 3570k -Asus H61M-G Micro-ATX - Unidad Blu-ray
MSI GTX970 4GB GDDR5 - 8 GB RAM DDR3 - AVR Denon X3400H Atmos - LG  OLED 55C7V
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Image
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That looks great. Much better than the default madVR options panels. And easier to understand.

I take it you still have to add debanding, dithering and display calibration (3D LUT, etc.).

What is the performance like compared to Media Player Classic?
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Ok guys, This is a bit off topic. I have set up MADVR with MPC-HC but I rarely use it as I like using the kodi interface with my remote, which I don't get with MPC-HC. I'm still a noob and don't know how to customize FFDShow or MADVR to work perfectly with my system. Can anyone provide me with good articles that will help teach me how all the lingo and what to look for when tweaking the settings?

From the little bit that I have run Madvr on my medium power graphics card (GTS450), I can tell the difference. My picture looks so much better than before. If Madvr gets integrated into Kodi I will be updating my graphics card and will truly take the time to learn how to set everything up properly.
Image
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(2015-03-23, 15:22)Talguy Wrote: Ok guys, This is a bit off topic. I have set up MADVR with MPC-HC but I rarely use it as I like using the kodi interface with my remote, which I don't get with MPC-HC. I'm still a noob and don't know how to customize FFDShow or MADVR to work perfectly with my system. Can anyone provide me with good articles that will help teach me how all the lingo and what to look for when tweaking the settings?

From the little bit that I have run Madvr on my medium power graphics card (GTS450), I can tell the difference. My picture looks so much better than before. If Madvr gets integrated into Kodi I will be updating my graphics card and will truly take the time to learn how to set everything up properly.

I'd say you would need to read this link as starting point.

http://www.ezoden.com/htpc/4/how-to-setu...troduction

While it was written to be used with MPC-HC. The basic is still the same for using with Kodi DSPlayer. You'd still like to use FFDShow RAW filter even MadVR was intregrated in Kodi. So better read and learn.

For now you can try to use FFDShow with DSPlayer and let FFDShow do all the post-processing thing the way you like. The result would improved from normal Kodi quality. And if you want to push further you can try avisynth mentioned in that article which would improve it more (at a cost of cpu load).
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