[SALAMINOMACHOS]

Aracnoz come back and proove them (Kodi devs) , that you are better than them

Fritsch , you are still here?
Go to bed

[oldpainless]

@aracnoz

Don't give up dude...DSplayer is the only reason I still use Kodi, just like a lot of other people here.

Don't let the opinion (misguided in my book) of 1 or 2 people get in the way of bringing an awesome A/V solution to the many.

Respect.

K

[fritsch]

Okay.

I just unsubscribed - I really wanted to understand how DSplayer can help kodi architecture and all users - but it seems there is no interest - as kodi does not matter at all - as long as the play button calls something else.

Unfortunately I think you missed the point. There are a number of solutions that would fit your statement (with and without Kodi). If people were satisfy with what you say there would not be any demand for DSPlayer as you could just use MPC or similar as an external player.

What is sought is a seamless Kodi experience that includes the feature set that DSPlayer (and MadVR) provides.

Fully right. But there is no way of merging (unmaintained) thousands lines of code - that doubles internal player structures - and benefit allover kodi. That step would not make kodi more maintainable but a whole lot less ... You would never ever add a second floor onto a broken baseplate - not if you would plan to live in there with your family ... but you would sanitize and repair the baseplate and when that is done you would think of extending giving base ... this is my point - I hope the picture helps.

[fritsch]

@aracnoz

Don't give up dude...DSplayer is the only reason I still use Kodi, just like a lot of other people here.

Don't let the opinion (misguided in my book) of 1 or 2 people get in the way of bringing an awesome A/V solution to the many.

Respect.

K

Aracnoz come back and proove them (Kodi devs) , that you are better than them

Fritsch , you are still here?
Go to bed

Concerning the fanboy discussion - this is exactly what I meant ... and even that statement to a dev that has worked endless hours for his users (aracnoz) now to push that way ... that's just ridicioulus ... man, didn't you get it - he left before the burnout got him - and you just want to push him back - with only yourself in the middle of interest.

[ashlar]

fritsch, I have to say that your posts, both here and the one in the devs section, amount to some of the most unempathic I've ever read in a community. Are you seriously uncapable of seeing why araconz decided to abandon the project? Do you really not see that he felt totally rejected from Team Kodi, with not even a single word of appreciation coming when he was investigating into how Video Player could allow his work to become more official inside Kodi?

You now get upset and go back calling people fanboys, which is something I really can't stand, but I tell you how it seems from the outside: a person that is not getting it. Aracnoz left because Team Kodi treated him like shit. There, now I said it. Hard work needs motivation, Team Kodi took that completely away from him. It's clearly expressed by him in several points, should I spell them out for you?

[fritsch]

@ashlar:

Just for you again:

"I have to admit that all that I have done until now with DSPlayer had a huge price to make it possible, sometime I also thought "how can I continue to do my real work, live and develop the DSPlayer part?"

[apgood]

Okay.

I just unsubscribed - I really wanted to understand how DSplayer can help kodi architecture and all users - but it seems there is no interest - as kodi does not matter at all - as long as the play button calls something else.

Unfortunately I think you missed the point. There are a number of solutions that would fit your statement (with and without Kodi). If people were satisfy with what you say there would not be any demand for DSPlayer as you could just use MPC or similar as an external player.

What is sought is a seamless Kodi experience that includes the feature set that DSPlayer (and MadVR) provides.

Fully right. But there is no way of merging (unmaintained) thousands lines of code - that doubles internal player structures - and benefit allover kodi. That step would not make kodi more maintainable but a whole lot less ... You would never ever add a second floor onto a broken baseplate - not if you would plan to live in there with your family ... but you would sanitize and repair the baseplate and when that is done you would think of extending giving base ... this is my point - I hope the picture helps.

I agree with you and think Team Kodi's vision (if I have understood it properly) of taking a more binary addon approach with the video player is a great idea. I agree adding another player in as it currently stands would not be a good approach.

That is why I said in my previous post that it is a shame that the response to aracnovz's question was what it was, as you could have possibly had a Windows developer that would have helped with those 1000's of bugs. He reached out at what seems like a critical turning point. Had there been a bit of warmth in the response then a working relationship could have been built that resulted in 2nd dev doing some of that you need done.

What has happened means those possibilities will never even have the potential of being realised and you are left with one overworked windows dev.
No saying it would have happened (probably even a long shot given it seems he's suffering from burnout), but rather that the approach taken means no hope at all.

These threads for better or worse are your job advertisement for other Windows devs that might be interested in helping out. They will take one look at this thread and decide that Kodi is more focused on other platforms and that Windows devs and there ideas / suggestions are poorly received and therefore go elsewhere. Not saying this would necessarily be the case, but it is the perception that is being created.

[fritsch]

These threads for better or worse are your job advertisement for other Windows devs that might be interested in helping out. They will take one look at this thread and decide that Kodi is more focused on other platforms and that Windows devs and there ideas / suggestions are poorly received and therefore go elsewhere. Not saying this would necessarily be the case, but it is the perception that is being created.

Every Windows dev, every linux dev needs to know - that kodi is developed as a platform for multiple architectures. If a future dev wants to make special things for platform A - that would only bloat platform B or decay the given architecture further - then he can nicely fork kodi and do his own thing.

But I don't stay that argument, that working long years without even contacting team kodi at all and then being disappointed when a solely standing monolite is not merged with a big hurray ...

Edit: What I forgot: We can also drop platforms - when they are not maintained / used anymore.

[sat4all]

Some messages adressed to araczon from team-kodi dev 2015-11-17:
DSPlayer's sources will certainly never hit our main repository. That should be clear from reading post #1 of this thread. The goal is to componentize and not adding more very platform specific code that is hard to maintain.

I haven't seen you "aracnoz" contributing a single line of code to our code base.

which happend to be the same day aracnoz stopped pushing commits (Latest commit 333771b 9 days ago)

so guess for what reason he left...slapping doors on his face.

[fritsch]

Kodi-Team dev 2015-11-17:
DSPlayer's sources will certainly never hit our main repository. That should be clear from reading post #1 of this thread. The goal is to componentize and not adding more very platform specific code that is hard to maintain.

I haven't seen you "aracnoz" contributing a single line of code to our code base.

which happend to be the same day aracnoz stopped pushing commits (Latest commit 333771b 9 days ago)

so guess for what reason he left...

So - what is wrong with that statement in the given context? I took the time (last 30 minutes) and read through the commits on github - it's a huge load of #ifdeffery and callbacks that spams our whole implementation. It fully does the opposite of the cleanup that is ongoing since 2 years. This FernetMenta is pointing out - and I also cannot find a single PullRequest on our github.

Here is the fullquote of the first post:

Kodi's video player is one of the oldest and most important components of the application. New features and ports to new platforms have long outgrown the original architecture of player. From its internal name "dvdplayer" you can tell how old this component is. In order to cope with current and future requirements like Ultra HD, MVC, 10bit depth, or PiP some elementary changes need to be done. The problem is that those changes require adjustments of platform dependent code. This dependency tremendously slows down development.

Ideally video player is a self contained component or service with its own life cycle and versioning. This would allow updates and upgrades independently from the main application. One platform could choose to stay with version X while others go with version Y. Maybe video player itself will be comprised of services with its own versions: decoders, demuxers, video/audio renderers, etc.

This is a long way and we need to get started somewhere. I requested this sub-forum to get platform devs involved, document and discuss what has been done so far, next steps, etc.

So - what is wrong with that statement in the given context? I took the time (last 30 minutes) and read through the commits on github - it's a huge load of #ifdeffery and callbacks that spams our whole implementation. It fully does the opposite of the cleanup that is ongoing since 2 years.

It was made and done with a single purpose in mind - getting dsplayer working for windows, windows, windows only - while ignoring everything else in that code. DSPlayer made kodi to a windows player only - with only this platform in mind, implemented without the design goal to extend it to anywhere ...

So - yes - it belongs where it is - in the fork. Kodi has another goal as DSplayer has.

Edit: Btw. you should read the complete thread, including the conversation between Madshi and FernetMenta. There seems to be a really good understanding between them ...

[sat4all]

you mentioned other reasons that what's wrong.

but he left cause it took far too much of his time - nobody seemed to have helped him to a degree that he could have managed it.
he left before the burnout got him.

speaking of my self, i have always hated the windows experience compared to openelec, even if the dsplayer playback quality destroy kodi video player on every term.
but now with a 4k tv and a 99.9% 1080p library i can trade linux smoothness for win os sh... in favor of dsplayer quality.
what i'm saying maybe if the language was a little bit more encouraging for him, dsplayer could be maintained as a side growing project for videophiles which happend to be windows exclusive. while kodi mainline stuff keep getting optimized to the point where dsplayer is not needed anymore.

Edit: Btw. you should read the complete thread, including the conversation between Madshi and FernetMenta. There seems to be a really good understanding between them ...

maybe instead of asking team kodi for dsplayer adoption we should ask madshi for cross-platform render?

[apgood]

These threads for better or worse are your job advertisement for other Windows devs that might be interested in helping out. They will take one look at this thread and decide that Kodi is more focused on other platforms and that Windows devs and there ideas / suggestions are poorly received and therefore go elsewhere. Not saying this would necessarily be the case, but it is the perception that is being created.

Every Windows dev, every linux dev needs to know - that kodi is developed as a platform for multiple architectures. If a future dev wants to make special things for platform A - that would only bloat platform B or decay the given architecture further - then he can nicely fork kodi and do his own thing.

But I don't stay that argument, that working long years without even contacting team kodi at all and then being disappointed when a solely standing monolite is not merged with a big hurray ...

That makes sense and is understandable, but it is how the message appears to be conveyed that is of concern.

Edit: What I forgot: We can also drop platforms - when they are not maintained / used anymore.

That's fair enough. What Team Kodi decides to support is their choice.

[geofred1993]

DSPlayer could be maintained as a side growing project for videophiles which happend to be windows exclusive while kodi mainline stuff keep getting optimized to the point where dsplayer is not needed anymore.

Which features from dsplayer/madvr do you want?

I think kodi needs better scalers with antiringing, debanding and maybe some sharpeners for people with big gpu.
I know there are some available opengl shaders on github like nnedi3, super-xbr, debanding, lumasharpen, adaptive-sharpen and more.
But I am not a developer at all and I don't know if they could work with the new kodi videoplayer on all platforms.

[fritsch]

DSPlayer could be maintained as a side growing project for videophiles which happend to be windows exclusive while kodi mainline stuff keep getting optimized to the point where dsplayer is not needed anymore.

Which features from dsplayer/madvr do you want?

I think kodi needs better scalers with antiringing, debanding and maybe some sharpeners for people with big gpu.
I know there are some available opengl shaders on github like nnedi3, super-xbr, debanding, lumasharpen, adaptive-sharpen and more.
But I am not a developer at all and I don't know if they could work with the new kodi videoplayer on all platforms.

Yes - all this is needed. But we don't have anyone that is doing it - kodi core team (those that regularly write code) are arround 10 people ... for Windows, Linux, IOS, MAC OSX, Raspberry Pi, IMX, Android ... so if you love kodi and want to help us, help us cleaning our year grown architecture mess and then contribute small things that help all of us - scaling shader / sharpening that can be easily integrated.

[a11599]

Sure, best would be to have some quality improvements in Kodi's internal video renderers.

Video rendering features cannot be equivalent on all platforms. Windows is already a big exceptions in this regard because it uses DirectX and others do OpenGL so nothing is reusable here. Improvements to the Kodi video renderers are always welcome if some developer is willing to take the challenge. Multiplatform consistency is nice to have but not strictly required in this case IMO.