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START HERE - Pick the Right Kodi Box (updated Dec 2020)
(2016-03-01, 11:35)wrxtasy Wrote: I've been looking into deinterlacing recently on Android platforms as it appears there is some trouble with mpeg2 Interlaced content and the Android mediacodec(stagefright) decoder. If its H264 Interlaced content only you are watching that is Transcoded from a HDHomerun you will likely be fine.

Basically the Android OS looks like it refuses to hardware decode this mpeg2 Interlaced combo using mediacodec.
The FireTV's have issues, the Google Nexus HERE, the nVIDIA Shield is having problems HERE , and the new AML S905, if its using mediacodec will also have issues.

They all default to ff-mpeg2 Software decoding and deinterlacing, which is inferior to superior quality deinterlacing out of a hardware VPU (Visual Processing Unit).

For excellent quality mpeg2 TV broadcast hardware deinterlacing on a budget you grab a AMLogic Box, preferably a S812-H or a S905, and use amcodec to hardware decode.

If you want 1080p Netflix with a AMLogic box the only option is a WeTek Core, that can also run the remote control friendly Android TV OS version of Netflix with Android OS dynamic refresh rate switching, just recently being included into that.

Isn't there also a problem with interlaced MPEG2 in VOB (Programme Stream) vs TS (Transport Stream) formats on some platforms? ISTR that the nVidia shield was fine with interlaced MPEG2 in one format but not the other - and at one point they changed which one worked well ? (Wasn't this also the case with AMLogic platforms too?)

Does the Core now do high quality hardware deinterlacing and decoding of native interlace MPEG2 content in both formats (DVD and Live/Recorded TV) now?
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I'm still unsure of the term you use "Native Interlaced content" ?

All 25/50fps mpeg2/H264 Live/Recorded Broadcast TV I view is great on AMLogic platforms, very nice on the Core. No issues in any resolution or combo.

25fps mpeg2 VOB content found in Movie DVD iso Rips plays fine on the Core using ff-mpeg2 Software decoding (patched Koying sourced commit HERE) and permanently selecting and setting deinterlacing OFF. As I believe you told me there is no Motion between frames for that type of content anyway so no deinterlacing needed.

I don't think decent Android platforms like the Shield will have issues with that combo either using software decoding.

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(2016-03-01, 11:59)wrxtasy Wrote: I'm still unsure of the term you use "Native Interlaced content" ?

Ah - we've discussed it quite a few times. Thought you were across it.

In 50Hz regions we acquire/shoot content at two image rates. 25Hz and 50Hz. Drama, Movies etc. are shot / transferred at 25Hz. Sport, News, Entertainment are shot at 50Hz. 50Hz content has twice the motion or 'temporal' resolution - and thus look more 'fluid' with 'smoother motion' - than 25Hz content.

However in many 50Hz regions 576i/1080i is used for broadcast - which will mean that the content is sent interlaced.

* 25Hz stuff is split into two fields of a 50Hz interlaced frame (both fields of the frame contain content captured in ONE 25Hz images and at the same moment in time - so they are still 'native progressive').

* 50Hz stuff is sent as a single field in a 50Hz interlaced frame. So the two fields in the 50Hz interlaced frame are made up from TWO different 50Hz images. They are captured 1/50th of a second apart. This means that the two fields in the interlaced frame are NOT co-incident, and there is motion between them. This is 'native interlaced'.

To deinterlace 25Hz content in a 50i signal (i.e. native progressive) you just weave the two fields together, i.e. display both fields simultaneously (and twice if you want a 50p output)
To deinterlace 50Hz contain in a 50Hz signal (i.e. native interlaced) you have to do a LOT of processing to deliver a good quality result. (Or Bob - which is effectively just line-doubling each 50i field to create a 50p frame)

So drama, movies and a lot of documentary is shot 25p - so is pointless to look at for deinterlacing performance (as effectively there is no deinterlacing to do on 2:2 content - you just weave - which is a default display case)
Sport, Entertainment and most News is shot 50i - and that is what you look at for deinterlacing performance.
Quote:All 25/50fps mpeg2/H264 Live/Recorded Broadcast TV I view is great on AMLogic platforms, very nice on the Core. No issues in any resolution or combo.

25fps mpeg2 VOB content found in Movie DVD iso Rips plays fine on the Core using ff-mpeg2 Software decoding (patched Koying sourced commit HERE) and permanently selecting and setting deinterlacing OFF. As I believe you told me there is no Motion between frames for that type of content anyway so no deinterlacing needed.

Yes - this is native progressive content - so effectively doesn't require complex deinterlacing.

The question is what happens with native interlaced DVD content - like music concerts, classic 'studio shot' TV shows like Monty Python, Doctor Who (1960s-1980s) etc. (which were shot interlaced in the studio on video cameras, and progressive on location on film cameras)
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Exactly the type of Info I was looking for thanks, added to the "Noggin's knowledge" master file Wink

Yes for Native, I would only trust the RPi's or Intel Gear to do a proper job deinterlacing that type of content (excluding Native VC-1 with Linux on Intel of course)
It may improve when Codesnake finishes the new Krypton / AML decoder for AMLogic Hardware.

I'm going to tag this Native Interlaced content 'Old School" rips from this point onwards, just like a few of us on this forum !

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(2016-03-01, 12:51)wrxtasy Wrote: Exactly the type of Info I was looking for thanks, added to the "Noggin's knowledge" master file Wink

Yes for Native, I would only trust the RPi's or Intel Gear to do a proper job deinterlacing that type of content (excluding Native VC-1 with Linux on Intel of course)
It may improve when Codesnake finishes the new Krypton / AML decoder for AMLogic Hardware.
The AMLogic stuff does OK with 576i MPEG2 Live/Recorded TV doesn't it? It's just, for some reason, the DVD VOB program stream format causes issues?

Quote:I'm going to tag this Native Interlaced content 'Old School" rips from this point onwards, just like a few of us on this forum !
Nothing old school about it though, so that would be a bit misleading. Any DVD released of a 50Hz (rather than 25Hz) shot video will be 'native interlaced'. Plenty of that stuff still around - entertainment, sport, music concerts etc.

We use 'native interlaced' as opposed to just 'interlaced' to indicate that this isn't progressive content within an interlaced stream (which won't have motion between the pair of fields in the frame), but is actually properly interlaced content (and has motion between field pairs in a frame)
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(2016-03-01, 11:35)wrxtasy Wrote: I've been looking into deinterlacing recently on Android platforms as it appears there is some trouble with mpeg2 Interlaced content and the Android mediacodec(stagefright) decoder. If its H264 Interlaced content only you are watching that is Transcoded from a HDHomerun you will likely be fine.

Basically the Android OS looks like it refuses to hardware decode this mpeg2 Interlaced combo using mediacodec.
The FireTV's have issues, the Google Nexus HERE, the nVIDIA Shield is having problems HERE , and the new AML S905, if its using mediacodec will also have issues. Basically its a Google Android OS problem.

They all default to ff-mpeg2 Software decoding and deinterlacing, which is inferior to superior quality deinterlacing out of a hardware VPU (Visual Processing Unit).

For excellent quality mpeg2 TV broadcast hardware deinterlacing on a budget you grab a RPi2/3 or a AMLogic box, preferably a AML S812-H or a S905, and use amcodec to hardware decode with the VPU doing the Motion Adaptive deinterlacing.

If you want 1080p Netflix with a AMLogic box the only option is a WeTek Core, that can also run the remote control friendly Android TV OS version of Netflix with Android OS dynamic refresh rate switching, just recently being included into that.

Thanks for all the info! Bummer about the deinterlacing. I thought I read in another thread that WeTek only does 720p Netflix. Realistically that's probably not an issue where this box will be going, bedroom where we'd be 15-20' from a 47".

RP3 looks intriguing, especially since it looks like it will have Android before too long, but I guess it would have the same deinterlacing issue and also no 1080p Netflix regardless.
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WeTek Core is definitely 1080p Netflix + other DRM Apps, as they have all the essential DRM licences which the cheapie Android platforms are all lacking and unable to acquire or afford. Multitudes of info for you to read on the Core platform now and what it offers.

I will say one thing and that is Hardware decoding of codecs, 1080p HEVC as an example and Hardware support for deinterlacing are definitely preferable to using any software based solutions. You offload the CPU when doing this in Hardware and allow it to do other background tasks that way. Kodi tends to run faster on low powered ARM platforms that way as well.

@noggin,
Yes 576i mpeg2 Live/Recorded TV is fine on AML, its the Native mpeg2 VOB combo that is causing issues. Not a lot of us realistically have a lot of that Native content anyways.

Agreed, Native Interlaced it is for the name, I will link to your Explanation to help everyone. Smile

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(2016-03-01, 14:10)jubilex Wrote: RP3 looks intriguing, especially since it looks like it will have Android before too long, but I guess it would have the same deinterlacing issue and also no 1080p Netflix regardless.

In OpenElec the Pi 2 has excellent deinterlacing of all MPEG2, VC-1 and H264/AVC content. If you don't need HEVC/H265 stuff the Pi plays pretty much everything. It's one of the few platforms that plays 3D MVC and outputs this as 24p 1080p Frame Packed (just like a 3D Blu-ray player)
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(2016-03-01, 14:17)wrxtasy Wrote: @noggin,
Yes 576i mpeg2 Live/Recorded TV is fine on AML, its the Native interlaced mpeg2 VOB combo that is causing issues.
Think you mean native interlaced?
Quote:Not a lot of us realistically have a lot of that Native content anyways.
Many people won't - but some people will, particularly those who like music (opera, pop, rock etc. concerts are often native interlaced) or sport (ditto). I think the 'not a lot of people have it' argument is flawed. You are either compliant or you aren't. It's definitely wrong to recommend a platform as perfect if it won't properly play a compliant DVD IMO. I was really disappointed to find my C1 wouldn't play my large collection of music DVDs :-(
Quote:Agreed, Native Interlaced it is for the name, I will link to your Explanation to help everyone. Smile

Yep - suspect there will be a fix at some point - it's unusual for platforms to play one form of native interlaced MPEG2 but not another.
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Hey Smile

Just wanted to ask, since the pi3 is out now what would be the best to do in my case.

Thing is, i got my gamepc connected to a 46 inch tv atm. Running a Quadcore at 3.4 with 1 gb
grap card and 8 gb mem. Its standing in the living room now and i dont like the noise it makes
Also, even tho it works at less then 20% most of the time, the power comsumption is another thing.

Since i only ran it on a pc, i am totally lost now what box to buy. Theres so many sellers
but most are from china and i dislike those products since there is no support.

So im thinking about buying the Pi3 now. Performance wise, vs my quadcore, will it be much lower?
Like menu's / search times etc. ( i know its just out, compare it to a Pi2 then Smile )
Is it wise to go for a Pi3 when all i do is just stream movies and series in 1080p.

Thanks for any advice Smile
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Discuss of streaming piracy content is not discussed here. It only hurts Kodi and our community.

If you are talking about streaming local content form your media collection then you will be well off with a Pi3.
If you run it on Openelec or OSMC it will be fast and responsive and support dynamic fram-reate switching to show your videos as the director intended to.
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(2016-03-01, 14:44)noggin Wrote: Yep - suspect there will be a fix at some point - it's unusual for platforms to play one form of native interlaced MPEG2 but not another.

It seems like deinterlacing has been a problem on the FireTV (and a few others boxes) for a while- is there anything end users can do to improve the situation?

Is the deinterlacing issue inside Android itself or is it something the Kodi developers would need to work on?

What is the best way to help improve things? I suspect hardware donations won't help but what about cash donations?

I use my FireTV for Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Kodi- both with my media library and streaming from my HDHomeRuns and the only time I have a problem is with 1080i streams from the HDHR's.
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(2016-03-02, 19:45)sirket Wrote:
(2016-03-01, 14:44)noggin Wrote: Yep - suspect there will be a fix at some point - it's unusual for platforms to play one form of native interlaced MPEG2 but not another.

It seems like deinterlacing has been a problem on the FireTV (and a few others boxes) for a while- is there anything end users can do to improve the situation?

Is the deinterlacing issue inside Android itself or is it something the Kodi developers would need to work on?

What is the best way to help improve things? I suspect hardware donations won't help but what about cash donations?

I use my FireTV for Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Kodi- both with my media library and streaming from my HDHomeRuns and the only time I have a problem is with 1080i streams from the HDHR's.

Some Android boxes have hardware deinterlacing (or have it enabled) others require software deinterlacing (which is quite CPU hungry for HD in any quality). Some hardware deinterlacing approaches seem to have problems with some flavours of MPEG2. Pi 2 and Pi 3 (and x86 boxes with halfway decent GPUs like the Chromebox) handle most stuff (Intel has issues with interlaced VC-1)
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(2016-03-02, 20:28)noggin Wrote: Some Android boxes have hardware deinterlacing (or have it enabled) others require software deinterlacing (which is quite CPU hungry for HD in any quality). Some hardware deinterlacing approaches seem to have problems with some flavours of MPEG2. Pi 2 and Pi 3 (and x86 boxes with halfway decent GPUs like the Chromebox) handle most stuff (Intel has issues with interlaced VC-1)

Yep- it works perfectly on my Pi's- but then I need another box for Netflix/Amazon Prime. It would just be nice to have one box that actually does it all.

The Wetek Core will do it but you are still just dual booting (at least as far as I understand it).

Does the FireTV simply lack hardware deinterlacing or is it just not enabled in their Android build?
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(2016-03-02, 21:01)sirket Wrote:
(2016-03-02, 20:28)noggin Wrote: Some Android boxes have hardware deinterlacing (or have it enabled) others require software deinterlacing (which is quite CPU hungry for HD in any quality). Some hardware deinterlacing approaches seem to have problems with some flavours of MPEG2. Pi 2 and Pi 3 (and x86 boxes with halfway decent GPUs like the Chromebox) handle most stuff (Intel has issues with interlaced VC-1)

Yep- it works perfectly on my Pi's- but then I need another box for Netflix/Amazon Prime. It would just be nice to have one box that actually does it all.

The Wetek Core will do it but you are still just dual booting (at least as far as I understand it).
No - the Core deinterlaces fine in Android - no need to dual boot into OpenElec.

Only caveat is that DVD MPEG2 native interlaced content doesn't get play properly. (Live/Recorded TV MPEG2 is fine)

Quote:Does the FireTV simply lack hardware deinterlacing or is it just not enabled in their Android build?

Afraid I don't know - but AIUI the Fire TV Kodi builds use a software Bob.
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