[carmik]

Awesome mate, thanks for the info!

One more question, stemming from your last, HDR10-related comment:

I suppose the only thing the AML S905 devices cannot do is HDR10 video output, but there is bugger all HDR10 content around, and the standards are still yet to be finalised anyway. I personally would not be chaining my horse to any HDR10 wagon yet, especially with Dolbyvision siting on the sidelines as well.

IIRC, the C2 CPU/GPU can do HDR10 decoding but not output. That is, if I understand correctly, it can play anime 10-bit material, but output in 8-bit. Is my presumption correct? If it is, then that's more than I would ask for!

[wrxtasy]

All AML S905 (minus the S905X) can decode regular 10bit HEVC and output that as 8bit color depth, which still looks just fine to my eyes.

There is no 10bit H264 Anime Hardware decoder on any platform.
If 10bit Anime is re-encoded as HEVC (H265), then that can be hardware decoded and output as 8bit.
The best you will get out of AMLogic platforms is 720p H264 10bit Anime - Software decoding only.

Yes its confusing !

You would need at least an Intel Chromebox or i3 to Software decode 1080p 10bit H264 Anime.

HDR10 HEVC clips will hardware decode and play on S905, but the color output presents as looking faded and washed out as its 8bit only color depth being output to the TV.

[noggin]

Awesome mate, thanks for the info!

One more question, stemming from your last, HDR10-related comment:

I suppose the only thing the AML S905 devices cannot do is HDR10 video output, but there is bugger all HDR10 content around, and the standards are still yet to be finalised anyway. I personally would not be chaining my horse to any HDR10 wagon yet, especially with Dolbyvision siting on the sidelines as well.

IIRC, the C2 CPU/GPU can do HDR10 decoding but not output. That is, if I understand correctly, it can play anime 10-bit material, but output in 8-bit. Is my presumption correct? If it is, then that's more than I would ask for!

I think the Anime content you are talking about is SDR 10 bit not HDR 10 bit (whether that is HDR-10, DolbyVIsion or HLG) Just like Hi10 H264 anime releases, the sources are 8 bit SDR, but the encoding is 10 bit because a view has been taken that 8->10 bit transcoding is better than 8->8 bit transcoding. Nothing to do with HDR - and the sources aren't 10 bit either...

AIUI playback of 10 bit SDR content is not exactly the same as playback of HDR-10 HDR 10 bit content. I think some metadata also needs to be carried over the HDMI connection. I don't know whether the C2 can insert the metadata. For HDR-10 I believe you need HDMI 2.0a compatibility (as the 2.0a revision added the official metadata standard - though this may just be a software/firmware tweak on some devices I don't know if that is true of the C2)

For Dolby Vision you don't need HDMI 2.0a AIUI - as they tunnel the metadata in a way that is compatible with HDMI 2.0 I believe (possibly also HDMI 1.4a)

One aspect of HDR metadata is whether it is changed on a scene-by-scene basis or whether it is fixed for the entire movie... I think scene-by-scene for HDR-10 will requires HDMI 2.1 not 2.0a, whereas Dolby Vision's tunnelling means it is already possible with existing connectivity. The downside of DolbyVision is that everything in the chain needs to have Dolby's magic dust...

(For info - The NBC/Comcast UHD Olympics opening ceremony HDR stuff was HDR-10 I believe. DolbyVision - last time I checked - was distinctly unsuited for live or as-live multicamera coverage - as used for sport, entertainment etc. TV production. HLG is designed for it.)

And after all this - what is clear is that at the moment there is very little HDR content officially available to us, there are at least three HDR standards, all of which are likely to be used by different content providers for different platforms, and AIUI Kodi has close to no support for any of them. (HLG would potentially just require a clean 10 bit path) HDR-10 and HLG are both part of ITU 2100 - HDR-10 (and Dolby Vision) both use Perceptual Quantisation, whereas HLG uses HLG. (Not sure if Dolby is part of 2100)

For those interested in HDR-10 and HLG Metadata - in this case for injection into H265 files - this is worth a look : http://quality.tv/home SEIEdit allows injection of HDR Metadata if you've created HDR content in an NLE like Adobe Premiere, Avid Media Composer or FCP, but need to insert the correct HLG or HDR-10 metadata into a resulting file to play on a suitable player (such as the internal players in HDR TVs, or for UHD Blu-ray mastering)

AIUI Kodi isn't really aware of this stuff yet?

[carmik]

All AML S905 (minus the S905X) can decode regular 10bit HEVC and output that as 8bit color depth, which still looks just fine to my eyes.

This is what I was looking for, thought that HDR10 is the same as regular 10bit. What comes as a shock is the following though:

There is no 10bit H264 Anime Hardware decoder on any platform.
If 10bit Anime is re-encoded as HEVC (H265), then that can be hardware decoded and output as 8bit.
The best you will get out of AMLogic platforms is 720p H264 10bit Anime - Software decoding only.

Yes its confusing !

It's a pc-dominated world after all It definitely is! Especially considering that I don't care about 10bit at all It's just that I've bumped into 10bit-only releases...

HDR10 HEVC clips will hardware decode and play on S905, but the color output presents as looking faded and washed out as its 8bit only color depth being output to the TV.

Quite interesting; I'd definitely like to see what the output looks like. To get back to my original worries though, C2 seems like a much, MUCH better platform for media than RPi2/3 (even though I hate the power connector) ... Bad thing is that a C2 with case, EU power supply, a 16Gb eMMC memory module and an HDMI cable will set you around $100, including shipment.

Are any of the Wetek offerings better and/or comparable (they seem to offer S/PDIF, perfect for those with old amps).

@noggin: Holy cow mate! Thanks for taking the time to write this ton of info! I've now clarified that HDR10 is another beast altogether and also that things will change in the video arena once more in a huge way.

[wrxtasy]

Power supplies are a Dime a dozen for use with AMLogic SoC's, I use an old iPad charger on my C2 with a USB to MINI USB cable.
AMLogic power certainly is not as critical as you would find in the RPi universe so long as you don't have all manner of USB dongles hanging of the box.

I've used a usb FLIRC, usb WiFi and a PS3 tuner together without problems.

There are a lot of options really, the better integrated S905 boxes to run LibreELEC Kodi, which is the OS you want for PVR use, come from WeTek.
Then there are the budget S905 options from all over the place. See the LibreELEC AMLogic Subforum for more details. Its picking the correct budget boxes and then getting it to run to do exactly what you want that is the challenge.

[noggin]

HDR10 HEVC clips will hardware decode and play on S905, but the color output presents as looking faded and washed out as its 8bit only color depth being output to the TV.

No - it's not washed out because of the 10 to 8 bit conversion. It's washed out because it is being treated as SDR ITU 709 and rendered with a different OETF to that it is intended to be.

HDR isn't about 8 vs 10 bit. It's about a totally different colour space and gamma, and in many cases there is metadata that changes file-by-file that alters how it should be rendered, whereas ITU 709 (and 601 before it) is based on a pretty fixed spec that isn't massively altered by metadata.

(HLG is the odd-one-out in HDR formats - as it is designed to be SDR compatible and NOT look washed out when viewed on SDR displays. It's aimed at broadcasters in particular, who need to simulcast a single broadcast to both SDR and HDR viewers without requiring SDR displays to do a conversion internally)

[wrxtasy]

@carmik,

Does your head hurt yet ?

Mine does, when Noggin brings his years of Engineering Experience to the forums. Its much appreciated.
I have a Book set aside when the deep video tech stuff like this pops up, Titled "Noggin's Knowledge !"

Its been getting a bit bulgy with all the Titbits of info lately too !

[carmik]

@wrxtasy: hahaha, no it's all ok with noggin, I've been affiliated with color image processing (mostly working in CIELAB).

Thank you both for some excellent (and vast) pieces of information!

Let's see if I can get some C2 boxes over to Greece now.

[polo_joe]

What about DVB UHD broadcasted on Astra 19,2 east tv channels playback on c2?
I read that playback has issues (pixelation, artifacts) on all S905 platforms.

[chrispe]

@carmik

I got a c2 to Greece from pollin.de

70€ odroid bundle + 12€ shipping cost - 5€ discount if register their newsletter= 77€

[wrxtasy]

What about DVB UHD broadcasted on Astra 19,2 east tv channels playback on c2?
I read that playback has issues (pixelation, artifacts) on all S905 platforms.

If that is important, make sure if you order any AML S905 box you insist that you are getting one with a Revision C spec S905 SoC.
I'm not sure if HardKernel are shipping Revision C's yet or not with the C2.

EDIT - I have a Astra19.2E.ts 3840x2160p 10bit HEVC test file here from Aug 2016 and that plays fine on the Rev B. C2 I have here.

I know WeTek have Rev. C in their Hub and Play2.

If its for an all in one PVR / Tuner box - Its the DVB tuners you would need to worry about first and getting one of those to work with an old v3.14 Linux Kernel that all S905's use.
There are media_build editions of LibreELEC about for S905's that backport a whole bunch of modern DVB drivers.
How successful these builds are at DVB driver support would need users to self read and ask lots of questions.

Then there is the WeTek Play2 that comes optioned with a DVB-S.
http://wetekforums.com/v/index.php?p=/di...ment_41447

[infinity85]

@carmik
Perhaps this offer could be something for you...:
http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/ODY0OTgxOTk...zteil.html
(http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=...40#p157180)
It includes an 8GB eMMC though :/ but actually... Fast micro sd cards are pretty snappy too, so perhaps you could consider the need an expensive eMMC.
Regarding the powe connector, why do you hate it? The C2 can also be powered via microusb like the raspberries.

If 3D capabilities are important for you, you should bear in mind that this might be the only field where C2 can't (and perhaps won't) cope with Raspberry Pi series. Everything else is - thanks to wrxtasy - simply great and getting greater

@noggin
Damn...I could listen to/read your stuff for hours
Please wrxtasy... Upload this noggins knowledge book somewhere haha

[Kiralina]

I don't know a lot of technical things, but I have recently replaced my RP3+HiFiberry with the C2 and all I can say is the C2 is snappier and the image quality is much better. I solved the passthrough problem with a HDMI audio extractor (since the HiFi shield didn't work at the moment I got the C2) and I'm very pleased with my new media player

[carmik]

@carmik

I got a c2 to Greece from pollin.de

70€ odroid bundle + 12€ shipping cost - 5€ discount if register their newsletter= 77€

Thanks for the info Chris. A question here. Is it cheaper getting it from pollin, compared to getting it from HardKernel (Korea I presume)? Customs issues perhaps?

@carmik
Perhaps this offer could be something for you...:
http://www.pollin.de/shop/dt/ODY0OTgxOTk...zteil.html
(http://forum.odroid.com/viewtopic.php?f=...40#p157180)
It includes an 8GB eMMC though :/ but actually... Fast micro sd cards are pretty snappy too, so perhaps you could consider the need an expensive eMMC.

Looking into it as well, perhaps bundled with some sandisk Ultra SD cards, to cut down costs.

Regarding the powe connector, why do you hate it? The C2 can also be powered via microusb like the raspberries.

This is a bit confusing: I also prefer USB type power connectors, but doesn't C2 use a round, mini-DIN pin-like connector? In the Hardkernel site the charger sold had a round connector, see: http://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/...4402211758
Can C2 be charged directly from USB as well?

EDIT: Strike that out, after reading the product description it seems that C2 accepts both micro-USB as well as mini-DIN type chargers for power supply.

If 3D capabilities are important for you, you should bear in mind that this might be the only field where C2 can't (and perhaps won't) cope with Raspberry Pi series. Everything else is - thanks to wrxtasy - simply great and getting greater

Well, wrxtasy has got me solid on C2 I will buy 4 units, so the only question will be which will be the cheapest way, including avoiding customs. I had my mind set in ordering directly from Hard Kernel, but I see here people prefer palin.de?

@noggin
Damn...I could listen to/read your stuff for hours
Please wrxtasy... Upload this noggins knowledge book somewhere haha

+1

[Kiralina]

You can also check for prices here http://www.vesalia.de