Make Kodi UI better simply by organise yourself...
#1
Some UI Kodi problem (every body complain about this horrible UI... nice colors... but we doesn't care, that is not the problem of colors or to be awsome...) is not from Skin development, that is a fact you need absolutly to undersatnd for increase Kodi really.
Because if a skin development should change all the Kodi way of access it, so Kodi Model/Controller part of code has a low power for stability when a dev comes to code a skin. And that precisely is a design pattern code problem who makes Kodi all the time tricky easy.
The code should absolutely lock Skin devs in a way to do things for stability of end users to easy use, easy to understand how Kodi works, how to add and read movies, TV, musics, any content never mind if stream or other.
For that, the design pattern should be thinking better... all of the design pattern. Said that it is the fault of skin devs is just a way to
1/ show you not understand what is a good design pattern (and by the way you stay a bad dev).
2/ reject the problem fault on people who can not resolve your problem (the name for describe that is "send far away the hot patatoes" because of lazy or not understand the problem)

For example:
In Kodi 17 and up, how you can do for select easy many movies and put them as watched ? you can not, and that is a shame. In older Kodi, you had to go back in particular files list mode and select a directory and just find on right click the option for design all the content of a directory for set them as watched... all the content and not some off them if you would like. It was better than nothing, but it was already bad.
The database organisation is ok (not perfect but well)... the code can do every-think ok... but design pattern kill Kodi.

Solution: have an edit class for object (objects like movies files...), and then a function to call for watch/unwatch with a hash list of id files... easy !!!
Then on the skin, in the left menu options, just add a selector ON/OFF for edition mode for content of what ever you are in. The view on right change color (that is a way to increase View to just show a state mode by color and not change all... every body directly understand what's happen), then add a column on left side in list mode, or a case on thumbnail on other modes for user can select movie and show a green cross when selected.... then on left option menu, because edit mode is enable, appears the list options of what you want to do on the list of selected movies. That is the way to do it easy and every body users should directly understand how to do, in all view, for all objects, with any device input you have (CEC remote or keyboard or mouse, anyway...).

For go on that, you should thinking about your design pattern (again and again...).

An other example:
On Kodi, you open on a view where already there is list of content type... but there is no content on start.
That is not a good design.
If there is nothing inside, so you should at open time show nothing content type, but instead, a easy way to add what ever the user want in big and in the middle !
Also, the user should be able to define which organisation /content type he want to define.
In the code, a content can be herited from a content class... this content class should herit a content type, this content type should have a name the user want... and more flexible things like that.
That is definitely not a problem of skin...
By this way, user add a content who can be in a hierarchy two level order inside some other contents, define a content type for this content, give it a name, a type, some abilities, some restriction... then at final end, it see a new content type like:
"Movies", then a list "English", "Russian", "Italian", "French", etc...
it just click on the content virtual container...
the window show these content and in the menu bar let the selector of design view contents... that's fine.
You should have the same kind of ability content in all the view selectors... the fact to have different access depend on the views make Kodi confused an tricky... do it simple and power-full is much much more better from far. You can add an option in left menu bar to add some specific user view the way that user can enable or disable some content on views... like that people do what they want but at start, have a full access everywhere.

That is much more easy to understand for every body and it is much more power-full because full flexible.


An other one problem of Kodi is to not care about addons validity.... a code can be add for check that installed addons is actually working and actually list of content exist really (can be readable). That way the devs can be alerted on change things from sources content, but also the user no more have to install addons who doesn't work or run around contents and wait one hour before see on content is working really...

From version 12 of Kodi, i never understand why major number changed so many times... because Kodi just stay the same horrible design pattern.
I think increase the design pattern for something more serious should be, this time, a real change of major number for next version of Kodi.

So the ideas are:
1/ make a serious dev design patern code instead of a newbie one dev design patern who never evolute from version major changed...
2/ take care that this design pattern should lock skin devs the way they can not break usability and they not have to thinking in place of Controller devs device pattern to add something they forget, but just make a skin. It should offer Kodi the garanty that Kodi will stay very easy usable and flexible if the skin is horrible or not... all the time Kodi stay Kodi on that way (so... a strong Kodi).
3/ add addons code for control what's going on and protect users for bad or outdated addons or contents of thess addons. This code should also be by itself... an addon.

And then every body should love Kodi like never before, just because that is flexible, easy to understand... good designed. Simply the best one.
Sure, for do that, first Kodi devs team need to be able (and they have to want to understand also) that fact... and do it easy then.

good luck for Kodi users, and good job coming soon maybe for devs tema Kodi by the way to do a great design pattern code.
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#2
Wow thats a lot of garbage...

Maybe you should consider to consult someone who has a bit more knowledge in the english language and let him rewrite your post.
Throwing so many words at us that are only "sounding" like english but don't really result in an understandable text at the end doesn't do anything good. It might even read like a rant encapsulated in some smart sounding buzz words.

"easy!!!" (Aha - easy...)
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#3
Looks like some Google translated French.
The OP might write it in French and I'll translate the non-ranting part
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#4
Might be some good ideas in there, i dont know since i had a really tough time reading through it.
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#5
Yeah, PR required.
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#6
Yeah. In the middle of all the rantings about how much we suck, I suspect there are some GUI related usability suggestions/Feature requets.

Although something like "On Kodi, you open on a view where already there is list of content type... but there is no content on start[...]but instead, a easy way to add what ever the user want in big and in the middle" makes me wonder what version he uses, as that was implemented in Estuary...
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#7
@Memphiz, yes that's right. I'm sorry for that. Hope it can be understandable like that, but sure, it is not good english. But when i read you at the end word, i think i was not understand at all.

@Koying, not google translate, but yes, i'm french and very bad for english... i just able to read technical datas, data-sheets, technical books coding... i can not read news, i just understand movies (but not all the words and difficult for some other). That is why, you are not far from the true.

Do you want the text in french ? If that should give ideas and point where i'm thinking some problems come from, maybe it would be good you translate me from french language ? would you ?
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#8
I think French is best. Thanks to koying for willing to interpret. Appreciate the input
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#9
Salut, j'expliquais donc que l'interface utilisateur de Kodi est horrible (non pas qu'elle soit moche.. c'est pas de couleur que je parle, ni d'un truc subjectif, changer les couleurs n'arrangear pas les problèmes d'accès d'une interface mal conçue).
J'ajoute que c'est selon moi un problème de dessin de conception dès le départ du code de Kodi et non pas de ceux qui font les skins. Parce que si une peau peut facilement altérer ou ajouter des fonctionnalités à Kodi, alors ce n'est plus vraiment une peau, mais une partie du code. Hors, si le code est bien fait, la peau ne peut que s'occuper de ce qu'elle doit s'occuper: le décors (et rien d'autre). Donc le fait que la peau de Kodi puisse altérer l'accès aux fonction prouve déjà un problème de conception du code (très objectivement).

Et je réagis sur les skins parce que j'ai pu lire quelques comentaires qui semnblent rejeter constament la faute de l'horrible UI de Kodi sur les developpeurs de skins. Comme si c'est eux qui devraient régler les problèmes de fond alors qu'en fait, une skin c'est juste un décors normallement. J'ai eu l'impression que c'était soit mal comprendre ce qu'est un MVC, soit fuir le problème en le déplaçant (ou les deux).

Par exemple:
Avec Kodi 17 et 18, comment pouvez vous selctionner facilement plusieurs films et les définir comme ayant été vus ? ça n'ets carrément pas possible. et ça n'est pas du tout normal. Dans les versions plus anciennes, nous avions à aller en arrière dans un menu d'ou l'on démarre du milieu, dans un mode qui ressemble à celui d'un lecteur de fichier, puis sélectionner à ce qui ressemble à un répertoirte avec un clic droit (clic droit pas accessible depuis une télécommande via CEC HDMI, ou j'ai pas trouvé comment faire...) puis désignr tout le contenu du répertoire comme vus.... tout ou un par un (c'est franchement mal foutu et c'est comme ça depuis toujours, aucune évolution sur ça par exemple, bizarre non ?). Comme ça fait trè-s longtemps que c'est très mal foutu, je pense que le code doit être difficile à faire évoluer, et que donc, une fois de plus, cela démontre qu'il est probabalement mal conçu.
J'ai jeté un oeil au contenu de la base de donnée (sqlite) et j'ai trouvé que ça allait, c'est pas le top de l'optimisation, mais ça va bien, le problème ne vient pas de là. Je pense aussi que les fonctions de codes de Kodi vont probablement bien (puisque si mauvais l'accès soit, les fonctions font le travail..) mais que c'est que le concept qui est foireux.

Solution: Pouvoir accéder à un mode d'édition (une classe édition dans le code... si tant est, j'espère, que le code est orienté objet... et codé comme tel, j'en doute) des objets et des types d'objets de Kodi (un objet qui serait un film, une musique, ou n'importe quoi d'autre que l'utilisateur désigne et ce paramètre comme un type d'objet et un container de ce type...). De facto, il serait facile de sélectionner (depuis ce mode "édition") une liste de contenus puis de les changer en "vus" ou "non vus". Facile !!! Mais j'invente rien... ça existe déjà, Plex utilise ce genre d'interface.
De fait, dans le menu de gauche, c'est le bon emplacement pour ajouter cette ligne: "mode édition" avec une case à cocher ou un slideshow a deux états. Et dessous, un cadre qui apparait quand le mode édition est valide pour faire apparaître les options possibles pour définir les contenus sélectionnés. (du fait du mode édition, lorsque vous cliquez sur un objet, cela n'envois pas la lecture ni un mode de description, mais juste sélectionne l'objet... avec shift et/ou un boutton virtuel pour les télécommandes, vous pouvez faire d'une traite une sélection multiple... facile et très compréhensible par n'importe quel utilisateur. Donc... confortable. Et si faire cela est compliqué, c'est alors que le concept du code ne le permet pas facilement (fatalement par ce que le concept du code serait très mauvais).

Donc pour faire cela, probablement qu'il faut refaire le concept du code (encore et eencore) pour que cela devienne naturellement facile à coder.

Un autre exemple:
Dans Kodi, vous ouvrez une vue ou il existe déjà une liste de types de contenus (films, musiques, TV, etc... )... mais il n'y a pourtant aucun contenu au départ. Ce n'est pas un bon concept de départ (et les skins ne peuvent rien là dedans... et ne le devraient pas), parce que si il n'y a rien, alors l'utilisateur devrait ne rien voir d'autre que de quoi paramètrer l'application et définir ses propres types de contenus, pour ensuite y ajjouter ses contenus là ou il le souhaite. D'entré de jeux au lieu de suggérer une organisation, qui par la suite ne suit plus et est à la merci des addons, là... l'utilisateur comprend directement ce qu'il se passe ets n'est influencé par rien d'autre que la façon dont il veut ranger ses contenus.
Aussi, le fait d'avoir la possibilité de définir un type de contenu avec deux niveau de hierarchie permet à l'utilisateur de ne pas subir l'interface mais plut^ot de s'organiser comme il le voudrait... ça serait d'emblé bien plus flexible aussi.
Ainsi l'utilisateur pourrait créer son type "films" avec les définitions propre à ce type qu'il souhaite voir exister, et un sous type "Anglais", "Allemand", "Thaïlandais", "Français", etc...
Le menu de gauche est très bien... mais il doit pouvoir accéder aux mêmes fonctions quelque soit le mode de vue, toujours... sans quoi il perd de son intyéreêt et l'interface deviens confuse parce que trop compliquée, et donc inaccessible (de plus, si il faut mémoriser tous les décors pour savoir ou l'on se trouve dans la navigation, c'est franchement un labyrinthe... Kodi n'est pas un jeu pour enfants... le but c'est de le rendre accessible non ?). Faire une interface simple est possible et la rendrait accessible. Si c'est si compliqué de rendre l'interface simple d'accès, c'est donc que le concept du code est compliqué, donc mal conçu et franchement, quand on voit l'interface... on se dit "ok... pourquoi avoir imis ça là ? pourqoui faire comme ça, c'est carréément tordu comme truc, il y aurait tellement plus pratique à faire, le code doit être aussi bordélique que l'interface". C'est un peu comme quand on rentre dans unbe chambre d'enfant... on arrive vite à cerner le tempéremment du gamin et ses aptitudes: bordélique ou organisé ? Il supporte la critique ou il refuse tout en se braquant ? Là c'est un peu pareil, l'interface reflète probablement son code...
Alors je ne pense pas que les devs sont mauvais, mais s'ils ne peuvent plus faire autrement que rajouter des morceaux de codes, c'est donc bien que dès le départ le dessin du code est très mauvais et que l'évolution est difficile de ce fait... il doit y avoir une remise en cause profonde ç faire je pense.

Il y a aussi le problème des addons... n'importe qui fait son addon (ok, jusque là c'est bien), mais par contre, un addon qui ne fonctionne plus ou dont le contenu n'eiste plus est cencé être obsolète et donc ne devrait plus pouvoir être installé, ni même directement listé.... il faut donc en tenir compte et faire un code qui vérifie tout ça et une base de donnée aec une entrée pour mémoriser cette définition sur l'addon testé par le code. Ainsi, fini les addons listés qui au final ne servent plus à rien, fini les pertes considérables de temps à essayer un truc obsolète. L'utilisateur serait super content, c'est sûre à 100%. C'est donc à faire à un moment donnée.

Donc en résumé:
1/ faire attention à faire un concept de code qui fait que l'interface vienne naturellement bien sans que ça soit un casse tête (c'est aussi comme ça qu'on reconnait en partie un bon code)
2/ prendre garde à ce que en aucun cas le dessin de l'interface puisse changer l'accès au code et altérer gravement Kodi ou le rendre différent. Si un code de dessin change le code, alors le model MVC est pas respecté, le code est donc mauvais.
3/ ajouter une fonctionnalité ou les addons foireux ne soient même plus visible dans des listes (et donc iddem pour les repos contenants au final 0 occurence d'addon valide).

Voilà, j'espère que en Français ça sera plus claire et traduisible, j'espère que enfin vous avez compris que je n'attaque personne mais parle de ce qui me semble être un code mal fait sur le concept. J'espère que la critique aura été constructive et que il n'y a pas d'âme susceptible qui irait/voudrait détourner mes propos pour cibler des gens (ça serait franchemrnt idiot, puéril et associal comme façon de procéder et carrément pas compatible avec un travail en équipe).

@Koying, tu es libre de traduire comme tu l'entends, bien sûre le but c'est de garder le contenu qui se résume en trois lignes, et les exemples qui expliquent pourquoi et comment ça pourrait être mieux au final.
Merci à vous.

Je vais jeter un oeil sur le code source pour voir...
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#10
Not everybody is meant to speak english, so please try to be a little more open mind guys .
( especially native speakers since they usually sucks at any other language Smile 

I totally agree that Kodi interface needs some serious fix, it seriously confusion and not user-friendly.

I understand Kodi is something totally different from a product such as Netflix, Kodi is more general purpose and extendable ...
.... but still there is room for big improvements make the UI more user friendly.

To me the main key point are:
- too many menu/submenu
- navigation between menus/submenus is confusing ( it is difficult to understand in which menu you are at a give time)

Now I am not expert neither in english, neither in UI but I think many people will agree something need to be done so I hope that soon or later some brainstorm around this issue will bring to some improvements.
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#11
Wink 
Hi, i can not see your translation this year.

I think that if you feel interested to make Kodi more clear and user friendly, really... then, you will do what you said.

After, i can understand the human reflex (maybe 80% of them)  when there is a critic: turn the head and arg for not change nothing. It looks like i'm walking on eggs... nevermind.

Well... as i said, i think the code is 100% in relation with his design pattern and also 100% in relation with his user interface (who is not user friendly and not logic).
As i said, it is normal to see that  a big code like this made by non pro devs is not nice and klinky. And for sure, it is better than nothing and it is free. I was afraid about reactions of devs... because if they would be able to react better, then i think also the code would be also better (all of this is linked i think, that is logic). And as long as it is difficult to communicate, then nothing will change for be better, because it looks like a fight for arguments that you just have to open eyes to see them.

I'm really sorry for that, hope for everybody you will finally look at the reality and increase code and UI things to be more logic, more simple and then.. more efficient.
It should be not possible by just change some lines of codes... year by year, we will see.
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#12
To be honest have you ever used the Fire TV?  That UI is so horrible it's a pain to use. Same as the new Android TV interface on Oreo.  Those are multi billion dollar companies and they release something that horrible..... Compared to that the Kodi interface is so much better. There are so much more billion dollar companies who still have not matched up to what we have to offer and they actually pay people to design it.

If you don't like the default interface pick from the many available skins and be happy with it. You cannot please every one and some think it's great and other like something else. How about you start giving examples of what could be done better instead of stating "it's not nice". Come up with a design and give it to us. Text is meaningless describing UI workflow. Blaming this on communication is just silly as that has absolutely nothing to do with it. We will listen if you make valid and well founded arguments and not stating " i don't like it" .

Also keep in mind Kodi is absolutely not designed for the single app users that only use something like Netflix. If you think it has too many option then it's simply not intended for you. Also why be bothered with too many options? It's not like you need to touch them.
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#13
"To be honest", i think that we can always find something more bad. But, "to be honest", what is the idea by the fact to search something more bad than just try to understand why the target is bad ?
May i think ("to be honest") that most of the time when human do that (not start by "to be honest"... that is a style more than an idea), it is to not look at the problems ? It look like a kind of derivation... "to be honest"... really... isn't it ?
Well... the idea was to point what is not good and why (not exhaustively), not to talk about something who is not the subject of this forum.

(But i'm agree... more and more, the idea is to paid people bad, ask them to go quick, to not have knowledge, but paper school.
Cheap, quick, and locked as most as possible, with a short life (and if they can make work childs for free.. thay will). But it is not the subject here.)
In this kind if new world, it is more than possible to close the eyes and dream, or just turn the head.

What is your idea in fact ? What do you try to do "to be honest" on this comment ? Do you think that speak about what is bad more is something honest ? Or is it a way to arg for not do nothing ?

@Martijn , But most of all... definitely, you didn't read my previous post up there. If you were red them, you were not told that i just said "it is not nice".

So please, first, start to read previous post in the same subject, on the same post discussion, then... go back for add your idea(s). If your idea is to deny things or find a way to turn on other target... well... you just confirm what i finish by said when i see the reaction of the others.
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#14
Ok I guess I am qualified to jump in here.

Yes, there are issues with the GUI for kodi but the OP needs to remember they are looking at the program for the first time while a large number of users have been using the program for years and have got used to the quirks.

Please by all means point out the issues so that we Skin writers and Kodi devs can understand what exactly the issues are. Use pictures if it will make it clearer what you find difficult to understand. There are sometime good reasons why something is done in a particular way, but also sometimes the way something is done is just because we have not realised there is an issue.

One example of this was pointed out by a user a couple of years back. His issue was that some settings prompts were give in a negative maner (‘hide gui element’) and some in a positive maner (‘show gui element’). Most of us had never even given this a thought, but the solution was simple. Choose if your prompt texts were given in a negative or positive manner and stick to this for all prompts. Most skins now follow this convention and as a result the intention of user prompt is generally much clearer.

So, point out your issues (one issue per thread to make it easier to follow for the coders), keep it respectful (remember we all give our time freely) and lets see if we can’t improve things for everyone.

Wyrm (AppTV skin writer)
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#15
Yes, I follow you 100%, that is correct and honest for sure @wyrm.

I’m going then to try again to translate my arguments I paste here 6 month ago. 

0/ The problem of Kodi UI is not the fault of the skin devs… if skin can change totaly Kodi, then the problem at first place is Kodi to let skin change to much Kodi. 

1/ 1.0/How to select many medias (videos/movies/musics...) in one time ? There is no multi-selection way (and much more from remote TV control). So for put status “seen” on movies, you have to do one by one. That is not user friendly.   

1.1/ Is it possible to loose meta-datas about mdeias ? for example, for a movie who has been seen or not ? mmmh... yes, possible... but why ? there is a problem there.

2/ when user use Kodi connected to a TV and use his remote TV control for command Kodi (like I do), how user can right click on jacket movie ? He can not… so here, there is a window for increase the access for users who control Kodi from TV remote (from HDMI cable with pulse-eight linked). 

3/ when you go inside menu for extensions or for medias, etc… if you go back you will sometimes fall on a kind of file-reader view. That design is totally different than the other one where user come from on the UI. That make more confusion about what to do and where to go and this looks klunky to. When user go back, he logically as to go back on the last view (view n-1) and not an other one new view. Here precisely, for what ever this happened, there is a logic problem of concept. When you go back, you have to see where you went from. 

4/ if you want to see a nice and clear UI design you should go for look at plex. There is nothing wrong to learn about an other existing UI who is clearly clean and logic. 

5/ imagine I want to populate a media menu with specifics filters, how is it complicate to just find where to do that and after… how to do that. Is it impossible to make it more simple, more clear ? 

6/ That is why, in the left panel (the one who appear when you go maximum left), there is a nice place for put an “edit mode” button (also because right click is for mouse only… remote control can not access it). 

7/ with Kodi, there is menus (good), menu link for Videos, Musics, etc…

7.1/ user can enable/disable them from setting menu, and an other one sub-menu. Ok… why not just directly access it from this famous edit mode ? In edit mode, you should have the same view with full menus entry in the bar, and a slide button for enable/disable it… that is more direct, and more simple. Also i’m confinced that at 95%, all new users (and maybe also from 5 years old) will understand what and how to do, directly when they will touch this “edit mode” button.

7.2/ when you click on the menu, at first time there is nothing inside, but the menu appears. At first use and without addons, user is a bit locked inside the “Kodi con,cept of organisation” (who is, I think, a bad concept and prove is that many users are confused with this concept, don’t lie this return users fact). Instead of have a strange and locked menus concept, it should be possible to have something more flexible and clean in first time open. To ask users where are medias, how they want to be organized, etc. For code around that, a menu should be a kind of container object who can have a parent and many childs (tree concept linked object). That object container can be a menu, but it can also be an extension, or a TV serie, or.. what ever can be in a tree of objects. The link in the tree should be his meta identity nature. But then, it should be the same in relation with database tables… if not, that will become complicate. But that is an object oriented old and efficient concept. 

8/ for addons, every body, Pierre, Paul, Jacques can do his addon… well, that is nice. But then, there is nothing to wash unmaintained and unusable addons ? Really, there is not, it is not a joke. Kodi has to, before to show addons, first check if addons can be installed and if they can works properly. There is no self-test process ? Really ? Well… that is a good reason to work on that, because I read that people are tired to loose so many long times to search and try bad addons (bad because most of the time, outdated) who can be installed but who doesn’t works… and to go inside a complicate UI road for install, then try, then go back… etc… also, un-install things should wash (on the disk to) the “not compatible” addon. 

9/ with addons also, if an addon can change the aspect and the functions of Kodi, so concept of addon on Kodi is unsafe. Also, that is a point for show that Kodi UI is not flexible at start time already. And it should be better to first be more flexible, but more restrictive for addon change abilities. 

10/ update time… make users afraid to loose things. That should be a priority to, before to post new update as “stable”, be sure that no one will have a risk to loose datas or loose configuration. 

There is many more things I can see who can be changed, but first, I consider these ones to be more important.I hope again the game will not be to loose time for not hear for users feedback and ideas, and that there will never have a kind of “because of the code we can not...” (that is always 100% wrong, because if the code lock devs, that is a clue that the code has a very bad design pattern and has to be changed totally).
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Make Kodi UI better simply by organise yourself...0