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Win HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
(2018-07-24, 06:06)acemt Wrote:
Quote:We understand many players and methods will play UHD HDR titles without actually engaging HDR mode.  Given PDVD v.18 and FAB v.5 are both performing UHD HDR for you and switching HDR mode on, evidently you meet the minimum requirements (at least for PDVD or it wouldn't be working).  Perhaps this is the key to get FAB v.5 working?  Please share which Intel SGX CPU, SGX motherboard, and Intel HD Graphics you are using.  Thanks.
Running Sky-lake i5-3600 chip with Nvidia 960. Gigabyte ga-z170x motherboard. 
 It looks like your CPU and MB do support SGX tech which meets some of PowerDVD requirements for UHD HDR.  Given that PowerDVD states

Ultra HD Blu-ray is supported only if a display is powered by Intel Graphics and supports HDCP 2.2. If your computer includes more than one graphics processor, Ultra HD Blu-ray is supported only on the display that is connected and powered by Intel Graphics.  https://www.cyberlink.com/support/produc...o?id=19881

I don't understand how your GTX 960 could be working unless you are actually using Intel Graphics and perhaps don't realize it?  In the event you are using Intel Graphics (which you must be since it is a PDVD requirement), it doesn't use private API's like nVidia and AMD do.  It uses Windows HDR which requires you to switch it on in W10 settings otherwise you won't have any HDR.  It's called 'HDR and WCG' after the last W10 update. 

I really don't know what the 'Stream HDR' switch in Windows settings does but it's greyed out unless HDR and WCG is enabled.  If it is enabled, and you leave it constantly enabled even when not playing UHD HDR video, you say it has no effect on quality.  On my system, turning on HDR and WCG switch makes the desktop unusable do to distortion but I'm not using Intel Graphics.  I'm using a GTX 960 because I want to use madVR with madVR players and I want to use PDVD and FAB as well.  If I upgraded to SGX hardware and Intel Graphics, madVR would no longer be compatible do to the private API HDR vs Windows HDR.

It fascinates me you are able to leave the 'HDR and WCG' switch always on as well as the 'Stream HDR' switch and have no ill effects when using the desktop.  This confirms my earlier suspicion that DVDFab Player v.3 uses private API's and v.5 abandoned that and now uses Windows HDR requiring the same special hardware and Intel Graphics as PowerDVD.  This explains why neither player works with nVidia or AMD and evidently only works with Intel Graphics for UHD HDR.  Personally, I will continue using DVDFab Player v.3 for HDR menus, PowerDVD v.18 for 3D menus, and MPC for quality main movie only of anything.  I can't give up madVR.  I'm hooked.
HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10/1903 MPC-BE\HC PDVD19 DVDFab3&5 KODI 19 PotPlayer 960-4GB/RGB 4:4:4/Desktop=60Hz/Video=Matched Refresh rates 8bit/65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
Reply
(2018-07-24, 17:40)brazen1 Wrote:
(2018-07-24, 06:06)acemt Wrote:
Quote:We understand many players and methods will play UHD HDR titles without actually engaging HDR mode.  Given PDVD v.18 and FAB v.5 are both performing UHD HDR for you and switching HDR mode on, evidently you meet the minimum requirements (at least for PDVD or it wouldn't be working).  Perhaps this is the key to get FAB v.5 working?  Please share which Intel SGX CPU, SGX motherboard, and Intel HD Graphics you are using.  Thanks.
Running Sky-lake i5-3600 chip with Nvidia 960. Gigabyte ga-z170x motherboard.  
 It looks like your CPU and MB do support SGX tech which meets some of PowerDVD requirements for UHD HDR.  Given that PowerDVD states

Ultra HD Blu-ray is supported only if a display is powered by Intel Graphics and supports HDCP 2.2. If your computer includes more than one graphics processor, Ultra HD Blu-ray is supported only on the display that is connected and powered by Intel Graphics.  https://www.cyberlink.com/support/produc...o?id=19881

I don't understand how your GTX 960 could be working unless you are actually using Intel Graphics and perhaps don't realize it?  In the event you are using Intel Graphics (which you must be since it is a PDVD requirement), it doesn't use private API's like nVidia and AMD do.  It uses Windows HDR which requires you to switch it on in W10 settings otherwise you won't have any HDR.  It's called 'HDR and WCG' after the last W10 update. 

I really don't know what the 'Stream HDR' switch in Windows settings does but it's greyed out unless HDR and WCG is enabled.  If it is enabled, and you leave it constantly enabled even when not playing UHD HDR video, you say it has no effect on quality.  On my system, turning on HDR and WCG switch makes the desktop unusable do to distortion but I'm not using Intel Graphics.  I'm using a GTX 960 because I want to use madVR with madVR players and I want to use PDVD and FAB as well.  If I upgraded to SGX hardware and Intel Graphics, madVR would no longer be compatible do to the private API HDR vs Windows HDR.

It fascinates me you are able to leave the 'HDR and WCG' switch always on as well as the 'Stream HDR' switch and have no ill effects when using the desktop.  This confirms my earlier suspicion that DVDFab Player v.3 uses private API's and v.5 abandoned that and now uses Windows HDR requiring the same special hardware and Intel Graphics as PowerDVD.  This explains why neither player works with nVidia or AMD and evidently only works with Intel Graphics for UHD HDR.  Personally, I will continue using DVDFab Player v.3 for HDR menus, PowerDVD v.18 for 3D menus, and MPC for quality main movie only of anything.  I can't give up madVR.  I'm hooked. 
 Mark,

I have to agree 100% with brazen1. 

Part of what you responded is now beginning to make sense why it's working on your end, and clarified a few things -- however, part of what you stated makes no sense at all. So let's dig deeper.

What makes sense is that it appears DVDFab went the same route as PowerDVD, switching from Private API's for handling HDR to requiring 'Special Hardware' and using Windows HDR switching. This is evident by the fact that you are using SGX enabled CPU & Motherboard, and you keep the HDR & WCG switch On in Windows. Now I understand why it's working for you. Certain lack of ethic on DVDFab's part - unlike PowerDVD, which boldly expressed the requirements vividly across the PowerDVD Product page, DVDFab seems to have done the switch rather silently, slipping most details under the cover. I had no idea. 

However, this is where it gets fuzzy:

Firstly, PowerDVD requires the display to be connected to SGX enabled Intel GPU (Not external GPU like nVidia) for HDR to work. You do have capable CPU/Motherboard with SGX support to do so, however, what's unclear is, you state you have a GTX 960. That video card is not capable of supporting HDR in PowerDVD. So the question is - do you have the HDMI Cable running from your CPU HDMI Out or from your GTX 960 HDMI Out? If you have it from the CPU HDMI Out, then it's fine - it make sense why it works - but if you have it running from your GTX 960 -> Display, that doesn't make sense! That GPU cannot run HDR in PowerDVD.

Secondly, there isn't a human being on the face of the Earth who can keep 'HDR & WCG' in Windows on the 'On' setting and not see a drastic difference in the Windows Desktop. A major degradation of Display Quality. The only place it helps is UHD HDR media playback. The latest version of Windows did provide a 'Brightness' tab in the HDR & WCG setting for SDR viewing which 'does' help with non-HDR display, but even so, it's nowhere near 24-hour viewing quality. So your statement that you leave HDR & WCG switch to On in Windows all the time and your desktop looks fantastic just does not make sense at all. Something is very amiss here. 

Having typed this above - something did just occur to me. Going to back to the First point; if indeed you do have the HDR & WCG switch 'On' in Windows, and indeed you are running your HDMI Cable from GTX 960 HDMI Out to Display, (And not the Skylake CPU), your TV Set will display "HDR" at all times, whether or not the source is actually playing HDR. That would explain when you play a media in PowerDVD, you see 'HDR' being activated. But that is not true HDR. That is not PowerDVD actually rendering HDR and playing media with source HDR, that is your Windows Desktop sending and HDR signal to your Display. 

What you really need to do to make sure you're properly playing HDR, and receiving an HDR Signal from the Media Player (Not Windows Desktop), is Turn OFF your "HDR & WCG" switch in Windows. Connect your GTX 960 HDMI Out to your Display HDMI IN (Not the CPU HDMI Out). Then play your UHD HDR MKV in PowerDVD & DVDFab.

I will suspect when you do so - You will no longer receive an HDR Signal playing media in either PowerDVD or DVDFab.

This is the reason we use DVDFab v3. There is no need to switch the HDR & WCG On or Off in Windows. Normal Windows operations are at highest quality; HDR switching is automatic handled by Private APIs. And we don't have special GSX Hardware, nor do we need to invest in it. 

Now, you *Can* connect your HDMI from your CPU HDMI Out to Display (Instead of using GTX 960). This will give you the correct HDR Signal from PowerDVD (And most likely from DVDFab also). Since you already have SGX Enabled Hardware. Of course in that case, you're loosing out entirely on your GTX 960 investment, and any & all features of your very capable GPU. 

If you get a chance to look into all this & fiddle with it, please let us know what you find. There is something very strange going on here. 

PS: OFF-TOPIC -- Scotch lover myself Smile -- My vice is usually Glenfiddich, Glenlivet or Laphroaig. Or the occasional Lagavulin.
Reply
First off Lagavulin is the best, IMHO.

Secondly, not sure why it's working, but it is. You guys have a better understanding of API's and switches, etc., but I am fairly computer savvy and can usually get stuff to work.

I can confirm that I am running the 960 hdmi out to the tv. Everything is running with Nvidia settings. Latest drivers. I doubt if I am the only person able to leave those switches, in windows, on all the time, and NO, it does not put on the HDR flag in Powerdvd or DVDFab unless it is an HDR .mkv. My picture of Taylor Swift wallpaper is almost lifelike at 4k, which the wallpaper is.
Reply
(2018-07-25, 15:05)acemt Wrote: First off Lagavulin is the best, IMHO.

Secondly, not sure why it's working, but it is. You guys have a better understanding of API's and switches, etc., but I am fairly computer savvy and can usually get stuff to work.

I can confirm that I am running the 960 hdmi out to the tv. Everything is running with Nvidia settings. Latest drivers. I doubt if I am the only person able to leave those switches, in windows, on all the time, and NO, it does not put on the HDR flag in Powerdvd or DVDFab unless it is an HDR .mkv. My picture of Taylor Swift wallpaper is almost lifelike at 4k, which the wallpaper is.

Mark,

I'm baffled. Maybe brazen1 can add here, as this is as far as my limited knowledge goes. 
  • I'm not clear how GTX 960 is playing HDR correctly in PowerDVD.
  • When I switch my 'HDR & WCG' button On in Windows --> Settings --> Display, the HDR flag stays On in my Samsung UHD HDR set (UN65MU7000), whether it's the desktop or any non-HDR content on screen. It never goes Off.
  • Both PowerDVD & DVDFab keep the HDR flag On if the Windows 'HDR & WCG' switch is On, irrespective of HDR or Non-HDR content.
  • I have scoured the Internet and while I can't claim that no one can leave that switch On, I personally have not come across one person who hasn't the same complain as myself and anyone else I know about leaving that switch On, and therefore do not / can not, leave that switch On.

I have no idea how your experience is entirely contrary to the above. I'll test again on my system when I have a chance, but I don't suspect it will be any different.

However, I trust your explanation & context above so clearly it is somehow working very differently for you. Maybe the SGX technology embedded in the CPU & Motherboard behaves differently then we understand - as in - perhaps the HDMI out from CPU is not required if the technology is present! Not Sure!! Very baffled. 

OT: It seems we share more then one vice (and yes, I agree, Lagavulin is unbeatable - a little heavy on the wallet but well worth it!). Would you be kind enough to share your lifelike 4K wallpaper of Taylor Swift Smile ... I just saw her Reputation concert at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena last month, and I have to say, I was blown away! Probably the best show I have seen in my life. You can PM it or I can PM an email. Thanks!!

EDIT:

In order to satisfy my own curiosity, I did some deeper digging and found a few things of note. 

Firstly, I was wrong about DVDFab's requirements for UHD HDR playback taking the same route as PowerDVD. There is a very informative page on DVDFab's website which lists very clearly what is required (and therefore what isn't), and it appears that any Pascal card is sufficient (and required) for HDR, which includes both GTX 900 & 1000 series.

While part of 7th Gen & above Intel GPUs also provide HDR support, they are not required, nor is SGX technology, unlike PowerDVD. 

All of this information can be had here: https://www.dvdfab.cn/media-player.htm?s...uctpage#d1

Here's some truncated highlights from it:

Code:

System Requirements
★ Windows 10/8.1/8/7/Vista (32/64-bit)
★ Core 2 Quad or above
★ 2GB of RAM
★ A Blu-ray Drive

★ NVIDIA GeForce GTX 9 Series (Pascal) or above video card (Required for HDR Mode)
★ HDR compatible TV or display monitor (Required for HDR Mode)
★ Live Internet connection required for product activation (Little network traffic used)

Code:


Detailed Requirements and Settings for HDR and UHD Playback
Hardware Environment
Video cards that support HDR contents playback
From Intel: Intel UHD Graphics 620 or above (Integrated in Intel Core Generation 8 and part of Generation 7 CPUs).
From NVidia: GeForce GTX 900 series, GTX 1000 series or above.
From AMD: RX450 or above.
Display Port: HDMI2.0a or DP1.3
Software Environment
OS:Windows 10, build 1705 or above
Drivers: upgrade the video card drivers to the latest.
How to check Windows information: Control Panel > System > About
Required Settings
OS Settings
Enable HDR option: Control Panel > System > Display > HDR and advanced color
Tip: this option is not available to Windows 10, with builds under 1705.
Play 5 Settings
To play back 4K HDR contents, please enable the HDR Mode at Settings > Video > HDR Mode
Choose Auto (recommended): if your hardware and display monitor support HDR output, then DVDFab Player 5 will output HDR image, otherwise, it will output SDR image.
Choose HDR -> SDR: DVDFab Player 5 will output SDR image
Earlier Windows 10 builds
Despite earlier Windows 10 builds (under 1705) do not have an HDR option, users still can get HDR support via NVidia video cards, in that case, please also upgrade to the latest NVidia drivers.
UHD Playback
To play back 4K UHD videos, your GPU is required to be capable of H.265 (HEVC) and UHD (4K) hardware decoding. The known GPUs capable of doing this include:
From NVidia: Maxwell GM206 series including GeForce GTX 750 SE, GTX 950, GTX 960 and above, all the Pascal series.
From Intel: 5th generation Intel Core Processors with HD graphics 5500, HD graphics 6000, Iris graphics 6100 and above.
From AMD: GCN 4th generation Polaris Discrete GPU RX 480 / RX 470 / RX 460 and above.
Hardware Requirements for Blu-ray 3D Playback
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 and AMD Radeon HD 6800 series or above, or 2nd generation Intel Core processors or above.
3D Display: HDMI 1.4 enabled 3DTVs,120Hz Frame-sequential 3D LCDs, 3D Polarizer LCDs or 3D Ready HDTVs (DLP).
3D Glasses: Active shutter glasses (NVIDIA 3D Vision Kit), Polarized glasses.

So technically, Mark is correct and HDR should engage without Windows 'HDR & WCG' Switch involved in DVDFab v5, just as it did in v3. I'm not clear why it's not doing so for us but I'll investigate further. If needed, I'll get in touch with DVDFab support. 

One thing of Interest I noted while going through DVDFab Media Player page was full 3D Blu-ray support, and ISO as well as Folder Structure playback for both Blu-ray & 4K UHD Blu-ray. If all of this works, this player could make PowerDVD obsolete as it doesn't seem to have the hardware requirements PowerDVD does. But it's all dependent on everything working appropriately, which requires more testing!

Image
Reply
Quote:One thing of Interest I noted while going through DVDFab Media Player page was full 3D Blu-ray support, and ISO as well as Folder Structure playback for both Blu-ray & 4K UHD Blu-ray. If all of this works, this player could make PowerDVD obsolete as it doesn't seem to have the hardware requirements PowerDVD does. But it's all dependent on everything working appropriately, which requires more testing!
True, this has also worked well for me. I have struggled with PowerDVD 17 and 18 to get my .iso folders to play, especially the 3d ones. So far everything I have thrown at DVD Fab, with the exception of a 10-bit 4k .mkv, has played flawlessly. The later is not DVDFabs fault, I just need to upgrade to Kaby-Lake but can't spare ~$300 bucks right now.

I was a huge TTM5 guy until they threw in the towel. So far DVDFab is making a nice run for my new player in all situations.

I want to re-iterate how my TV shows the HDR flag. It does NOT show the HDR flag when the display button is pushed, like on older Sony's. I have to go into the settings menu when and HDR movie is playing and see the HDR flag there. I will confirm tonight whether it is NOT showing up on non-HDR material. Not sure if I checked that. Will try to send the pic of Ms. T, however it is a pretty big file and not sure if I can send it via either of those methods due to comcast email restrictions.

Mark
Reply
Sent you a pm
Reply
(2018-07-25, 18:19)luci5r Wrote:
(2018-07-25, 15:05)acemt Wrote: First off Lagavulin is the best, IMHO.

Secondly, not sure why it's working, but it is. You guys have a better understanding of API's and switches, etc., but I am fairly computer savvy and can usually get stuff to work.

I can confirm that I am running the 960 hdmi out to the tv. Everything is running with Nvidia settings. Latest drivers. I doubt if I am the only person able to leave those switches, in windows, on all the time, and NO, it does not put on the HDR flag in Powerdvd or DVDFab unless it is an HDR .mkv. My picture of Taylor Swift wallpaper is almost lifelike at 4k, which the wallpaper is.

Mark,

I'm baffled. Maybe brazen1 can add here, as this is as far as my limited knowledge goes. 
  • I'm not clear how GTX 960 is playing HDR correctly in PowerDVD.
  • When I switch my 'HDR & WCG' button On in Windows --> Settings --> Display, the HDR flag stays On in my Samsung UHD HDR set (UN65MU7000), whether it's the desktop or any non-HDR content on screen. It never goes Off.
  • Both PowerDVD & DVDFab keep the HDR flag On if the Windows 'HDR & WCG' switch is On, irrespective of HDR or Non-HDR content.
  • I have scoured the Internet and while I can't claim that no one can leave that switch On, I personally have not come across one person who hasn't the same complain as myself and anyone else I know about leaving that switch On, and therefore do not / can not, leave that switch On.

I have no idea how your experience is entirely contrary to the above. I'll test again on my system when I have a chance, but I don't suspect it will be any different.

However, I trust your explanation & context above so clearly it is somehow working very differently for you. Maybe the SGX technology embedded in the CPU & Motherboard behaves differently then we understand - as in - perhaps the HDMI out from CPU is not required if the technology is present! Not Sure!! Very baffled. 

OT: It seems we share more then one vice (and yes, I agree, Lagavulin is unbeatable - a little heavy on the wallet but well worth it!). Would you be kind enough to share your lifelike 4K wallpaper of Taylor Swift Smile ... I just saw her Reputation concert at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena last month, and I have to say, I was blown away! Probably the best show I have seen in my life. You can PM it or I can PM an email. Thanks!!

EDIT:

In order to satisfy my own curiosity, I did some deeper digging and found a few things of note. 

Firstly, I was wrong about DVDFab's requirements for UHD HDR playback taking the same route as PowerDVD. There is a very informative page on DVDFab's website which lists very clearly what is required (and therefore what isn't), and it appears that any Pascal card is sufficient (and required) for HDR, which includes both GTX 900 & 1000 series.

While part of 7th Gen & above Intel GPUs also provide HDR support, they are not required, nor is SGX technology, unlike PowerDVD. 

All of this information can be had here: https://www.dvdfab.cn/media-player.htm?s...uctpage#d1

Here's some truncated highlights from it:

Code:

System Requirements
★ Windows 10/8.1/8/7/Vista (32/64-bit)
★ Core 2 Quad or above
★ 2GB of RAM
★ A Blu-ray Drive

★ NVIDIA GeForce GTX 9 Series (Pascal) or above video card (Required for HDR Mode)
★ HDR compatible TV or display monitor (Required for HDR Mode)
★ Live Internet connection required for product activation (Little network traffic used)
Code:
Detailed Requirements and Settings for HDR and UHD Playback
Hardware Environment
Video cards that support HDR contents playback
From Intel: Intel UHD Graphics 620 or above (Integrated in Intel Core Generation 8 and part of Generation 7 CPUs).
From NVidia: GeForce GTX 900 series, GTX 1000 series or above.
From AMD: RX450 or above.
Display Port: HDMI2.0a or DP1.3
Software Environment
OS:Windows 10, build 1705 or above
Drivers: upgrade the video card drivers to the latest.
How to check Windows information: Control Panel > System > About
Required Settings
OS Settings
Enable HDR option: Control Panel > System > Display > HDR and advanced color

Tip: this option is not available to Windows 10, with builds under 1705.
Play 5 Settings
To play back 4K HDR contents, please enable the HDR Mode at Settings > Video > HDR Mode
Choose Auto (recommended): if your hardware and display monitor support HDR output, then DVDFab Player 5 will output HDR image, otherwise, it will output SDR image.
Choose HDR -> SDR: DVDFab Player 5 will output SDR image
Earlier Windows 10 builds
Despite earlier Windows 10 builds (under 1705) do not have an HDR option, users still can get HDR support via NVidia video cards, in that case, please also upgrade to the latest NVidia drivers.
UHD Playback
To play back 4K UHD videos, your GPU is required to be capable of H.265 (HEVC) and UHD (4K) hardware decoding. The known GPUs capable of doing this include:
From NVidia: Maxwell GM206 series including GeForce GTX 750 SE, GTX 950, GTX 960 and above, all the Pascal series.
From Intel: 5th generation Intel Core Processors with HD graphics 5500, HD graphics 6000, Iris graphics 6100 and above.
From AMD: GCN 4th generation Polaris Discrete GPU RX 480 / RX 470 / RX 460 and above.
Hardware Requirements for Blu-ray 3D Playback
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 and AMD Radeon HD 6800 series or above, or 2nd generation Intel Core processors or above.
3D Display: HDMI 1.4 enabled 3DTVs,120Hz Frame-sequential 3D LCDs, 3D Polarizer LCDs or 3D Ready HDTVs (DLP).
3D Glasses: Active shutter glasses (NVIDIA 3D Vision Kit), Polarized glasses.

So technically, Mark is correct and HDR should engage without Windows 'HDR & WCG' Switch involved in DVDFab v5, just as it did in v3. I'm not clear why it's not doing so for us but I'll investigate further. If needed, I'll get in touch with DVDFab support. 

One thing of Interest I noted while going through DVDFab Media Player page was full 3D Blu-ray support, and ISO as well as Folder Structure playback for both Blu-ray & 4K UHD Blu-ray. If all of this works, this player could make PowerDVD obsolete as it doesn't seem to have the hardware requirements PowerDVD does. But it's all dependent on everything working appropriately, which requires more testing!

Image 
Read the "Requirements" again:

Required Settings
OS Settings
Enable HDR option: Control Panel > System > Display > HDR and advanced color

'HDR and advanced color' & 'HDR & WCG' are the same switch.  MS just changed the name after the W10 v.1803 update.
HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10/1903 MPC-BE\HC PDVD19 DVDFab3&5 KODI 19 PotPlayer 960-4GB/RGB 4:4:4/Desktop=60Hz/Video=Matched Refresh rates 8bit/65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
Reply
(2018-07-25, 22:38)brazen1 Wrote:
(2018-07-25, 18:19)luci5r Wrote:
(2018-07-25, 15:05)acemt Wrote: First off Lagavulin is the best, IMHO.

Secondly, not sure why it's working, but it is. You guys have a better understanding of API's and switches, etc., but I am fairly computer savvy and can usually get stuff to work.

I can confirm that I am running the 960 hdmi out to the tv. Everything is running with Nvidia settings. Latest drivers. I doubt if I am the only person able to leave those switches, in windows, on all the time, and NO, it does not put on the HDR flag in Powerdvd or DVDFab unless it is an HDR .mkv. My picture of Taylor Swift wallpaper is almost lifelike at 4k, which the wallpaper is.

Mark,

I'm baffled. Maybe brazen1 can add here, as this is as far as my limited knowledge goes. 
  • I'm not clear how GTX 960 is playing HDR correctly in PowerDVD.
  • When I switch my 'HDR & WCG' button On in Windows --> Settings --> Display, the HDR flag stays On in my Samsung UHD HDR set (UN65MU7000), whether it's the desktop or any non-HDR content on screen. It never goes Off.
  • Both PowerDVD & DVDFab keep the HDR flag On if the Windows 'HDR & WCG' switch is On, irrespective of HDR or Non-HDR content.
  • I have scoured the Internet and while I can't claim that no one can leave that switch On, I personally have not come across one person who hasn't the same complain as myself and anyone else I know about leaving that switch On, and therefore do not / can not, leave that switch On.

I have no idea how your experience is entirely contrary to the above. I'll test again on my system when I have a chance, but I don't suspect it will be any different.

However, I trust your explanation & context above so clearly it is somehow working very differently for you. Maybe the SGX technology embedded in the CPU & Motherboard behaves differently then we understand - as in - perhaps the HDMI out from CPU is not required if the technology is present! Not Sure!! Very baffled. 

OT: It seems we share more then one vice (and yes, I agree, Lagavulin is unbeatable - a little heavy on the wallet but well worth it!). Would you be kind enough to share your lifelike 4K wallpaper of Taylor Swift Smile ... I just saw her Reputation concert at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena last month, and I have to say, I was blown away! Probably the best show I have seen in my life. You can PM it or I can PM an email. Thanks!!

EDIT:

In order to satisfy my own curiosity, I did some deeper digging and found a few things of note. 

Firstly, I was wrong about DVDFab's requirements for UHD HDR playback taking the same route as PowerDVD. There is a very informative page on DVDFab's website which lists very clearly what is required (and therefore what isn't), and it appears that any Pascal card is sufficient (and required) for HDR, which includes both GTX 900 & 1000 series.

While part of 7th Gen & above Intel GPUs also provide HDR support, they are not required, nor is SGX technology, unlike PowerDVD. 

All of this information can be had here: https://www.dvdfab.cn/media-player.htm?s...uctpage#d1

Here's some truncated highlights from it:

Code:

System Requirements
★ Windows 10/8.1/8/7/Vista (32/64-bit)
★ Core 2 Quad or above
★ 2GB of RAM
★ A Blu-ray Drive

★ NVIDIA GeForce GTX 9 Series (Pascal) or above video card (Required for HDR Mode)
★ HDR compatible TV or display monitor (Required for HDR Mode)
★ Live Internet connection required for product activation (Little network traffic used)
Code:
Detailed Requirements and Settings for HDR and UHD Playback
Hardware Environment
Video cards that support HDR contents playback
From Intel: Intel UHD Graphics 620 or above (Integrated in Intel Core Generation 8 and part of Generation 7 CPUs).
From NVidia: GeForce GTX 900 series, GTX 1000 series or above.
From AMD: RX450 or above.
Display Port: HDMI2.0a or DP1.3
Software Environment
OS:Windows 10, build 1705 or above
Drivers: upgrade the video card drivers to the latest.
How to check Windows information: Control Panel > System > About
Required Settings
OS Settings
Enable HDR option: Control Panel > System > Display > HDR and advanced color

Tip: this option is not available to Windows 10, with builds under 1705.
Play 5 Settings
To play back 4K HDR contents, please enable the HDR Mode at Settings > Video > HDR Mode
Choose Auto (recommended): if your hardware and display monitor support HDR output, then DVDFab Player 5 will output HDR image, otherwise, it will output SDR image.
Choose HDR -> SDR: DVDFab Player 5 will output SDR image
Earlier Windows 10 builds
Despite earlier Windows 10 builds (under 1705) do not have an HDR option, users still can get HDR support via NVidia video cards, in that case, please also upgrade to the latest NVidia drivers.
UHD Playback
To play back 4K UHD videos, your GPU is required to be capable of H.265 (HEVC) and UHD (4K) hardware decoding. The known GPUs capable of doing this include:
From NVidia: Maxwell GM206 series including GeForce GTX 750 SE, GTX 950, GTX 960 and above, all the Pascal series.
From Intel: 5th generation Intel Core Processors with HD graphics 5500, HD graphics 6000, Iris graphics 6100 and above.
From AMD: GCN 4th generation Polaris Discrete GPU RX 480 / RX 470 / RX 460 and above.
Hardware Requirements for Blu-ray 3D Playback
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 and AMD Radeon HD 6800 series or above, or 2nd generation Intel Core processors or above.
3D Display: HDMI 1.4 enabled 3DTVs,120Hz Frame-sequential 3D LCDs, 3D Polarizer LCDs or 3D Ready HDTVs (DLP).
3D Glasses: Active shutter glasses (NVIDIA 3D Vision Kit), Polarized glasses.

So technically, Mark is correct and HDR should engage without Windows 'HDR & WCG' Switch involved in DVDFab v5, just as it did in v3. I'm not clear why it's not doing so for us but I'll investigate further. If needed, I'll get in touch with DVDFab support. 

One thing of Interest I noted while going through DVDFab Media Player page was full 3D Blu-ray support, and ISO as well as Folder Structure playback for both Blu-ray & 4K UHD Blu-ray. If all of this works, this player could make PowerDVD obsolete as it doesn't seem to have the hardware requirements PowerDVD does. But it's all dependent on everything working appropriately, which requires more testing!

Image 
Read the "Requirements" again:

Required Settings
OS Settings
Enable HDR option: Control Panel > System > Display > HDR and advanced color

'HDR and advanced color' & 'HDR & WCG' are the same switch.  MS just changed the name after the W10 v.1803 update.  
 Ah! And that is exactly why I posted all of this to get a second pair of eyes. So DVDFab v5 & above *DO REQUIRE* turning the HDR & WCG switch On manually! Whereas DVDFab v3 doesn't. That tears it. Spot on, brazen1. I entirely skimmed over that. And since Mark keeps that switch On 24/7, it obviously is working for him. 

So that's definitive - No special hardware required, unlike PowerDVD, but 'HDR & WCG' needs to be operated manually w/ DVDFab v5 and above. Hmpf. 

Which leaves us with one last query -- How is PowerDVD sending the HDR Signal via GTX 960? Doesn't it require Intel 7th/8th Gen GPU & SGX to do so? Of course, PowerDVD does not playback UHD HDR Blu-ray ISO so it's still behind DVDFab, but still curious. 

Thanks.
Reply
Ok, more tinkering and info b4 I watch the 2015 Mission impossible to get ramped up for the new movie which looks to be fantastic.

I found a setting in DVDFab 5 Called "info". you can get to it by right clicking during playback. I can confirm that it is indeed showing 4k UHD when playing a 4k UHD movie. I tried it with 1080p and it showed "SD".

Took pictures showing that I do indeed have the 2 windows switched engaged all the time and will post when I get some time. I changed my default player to Fab for now as it seems to doing most things right. I am getting an occasional crash in 3D, and it not sensing side-by-side when sit to auto so I must change the format manually.

Cheers,

Mark
Reply
I'm not really sure what we're trying to discover here other than other users experiences, either confirmations or differences?  All of this was already covered back in February when DVDFab Player v.5 was released and reiterated a couple weeks ago when I tried it again due to a few updates being released and confirmed nothing has changed.  What we have learned are confirmations that FAB 5 is not going to work unless you prefer to use Windows HDR.  Personally, I have zero desire to use it.  It does not auto switch on and off.  It saturates video and does not look anywhere near as good as private API induced HDR imo because it isn't passing through.  You can confirm this by noticing no contrast or brightness settings or anything else are changed in your display automatically like they are when using private API's with madVR or FAB v.3.

We also have known forever that v.3 used private API's and that is what I'm sticking with.  This doesn't mean others should or have to follow.  But asking for support here for those or similar problems is not going to be pursued simply because of the nature of the new version.  There's not much we can do if anything even if we wanted to.  It is what it is.  At least we understand there is nothing anyone is going to do about the faults other than FAB HQ and that's even if you see them as faults.  Perhaps gamers love it?

The "info" window shows us that either the Windows HDR switch is turned on or off for UHD HDR.  If it's on, it will show HDR.  If it's off, it will show HDR>SDR.  For all other resolutions it will show SDR regardless if the Windows HDR switch is on or off.
 
To recap:
DVDFab Player v.5 requires Windows HDR to be on else you will be doing HDR>SDR.  And to be clear there are major differences between Windows HDR and private API's use.
V.3 has no 3D support.  V.5 does have 3D support with caveats:  4k users are screwed.  Global resolution must be manually changed to 1080p prior to playback and of course switched back after.  Imo, v.5 offers nothing v.3 + PDVD already offer and I'm not pursuing it at all.  Perhaps one day they will change things and another test drive will be worthwhile.

One thing I am taking away from this conversation is a user is adamant leaving the Windows HDR switch enabled all the time has no ill affects on any GUI's or Windows Desktop usage.  That to me I find mind boggling but chalk it up that differences in hardware must matter even though we use the identical GPU.  Also don't understand the same user is decoding and rendering HDR using PDVD 18 while not meeting PDVD's requirements?
HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10/1903 MPC-BE\HC PDVD19 DVDFab3&5 KODI 19 PotPlayer 960-4GB/RGB 4:4:4/Desktop=60Hz/Video=Matched Refresh rates 8bit/65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D
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Your last statement:
(2018-07-26, 03:05)brazen1 Wrote: One thing I am taking away from this conversation is a user is adamant leaving the Windows HDR switch enabled all the time has no ill affects on any GUI's or Windows Desktop usage.  That to me I find mind boggling but chalk it up that differences in hardware must matter even though we use the identical GPU.  Also don't understand the same user is decoding and rendering HDR using PDVD 18 while not meeting PDVD's requirements?

Is actually the answer to your first statement:
(2018-07-26, 03:05)brazen1 Wrote: I'm not really sure what we're trying to discover here

We weren't really trying to discover anything here, other then some of Mark's claims which, at the time, were standing contradictory to what we had learned some pages back, which are slightly more clearer now, although there still stands some discrepancy which is beyond the scope of our understanding at this point.

Where you stated "I find mind boggling" and "Also don't understand" is exactly where my conversation with Mark started, and pursued. As I too found certain things Mark stated as mind boggling & didn't understand, and wanted to find out more.

Nevertheless, your assessment is entirely accurate. We didn't really discover anything new we didn't know, and DVDFab v3 + PDVD 18 continue to be the correct solution for the vast majority of us. Mark's setup & preferences are slightly different then ours which does explain some of the claims, but not all. Which we'll have to let be at this point. It is, what it is.

Until something changes, improves or different comes along.

Edit:

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if Kodi has any future plans for UHD HDR playback with it's internal player? I'm not exactly sure what kind of costs, licensing, effort is required for this so please take my question with a grain of salt. I think the demand is sufficiently there and steadily growing each passing day, but as I said, I'm not entirely sure what such a capability entails. 

Thanks.
Reply
@luci5r Kodi Leia have now one option "try10bitoutpit" via advancedsettings.xml for send 10 bits to display, it´s the first step for have UHD HDR playback using internal player. Exist one second adjust relationed, but I don´t have precise idea how work (allowdiscretedecoder).
Code:
<advancedsettings>     
<video>  
  <allowdiscretedecoder>false</allowdiscretedecoder>
 </video>
  <try10bitoutput>true</try10bitoutput>    
</advancedsettings>

About try10bitoutput = added 10bit output if supported. Allow output 10bit videos without converting them to 8bit.
About allowdiscretedecoder = added the possibility to use a separate device for decoding (disabled by default). it allows avoiding lockups of device's context.
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(2018-01-26, 00:41)luci5r Wrote: So I finally got a chance this week to sit down and finagle with the various options & propositions to do with getting UHD HDR MKV playback to work on my GT 1030 / i5-2600K machine with Kodi. 

Ultimately, in a nut shell, the following is what I was able to achieve.

#1
Windows HDR --> OFF
Under LAV Video Configuration -> Hardware Acceleration
If I set "Hardware Decoder to use" to "DXVA2 (Native)"
This method allows LAV/MadVR/MPC-BE to playback UHD HDR MKV flawlessly! No skipping. No lag. No frame rate or choppy playback issues. Playback is absolutely smooth. 
HOWEVER -- The PQ is just not that great! Colors are no different then watching a non-UHD, non-HDR media. 

#2
Windows HDR --> OFF
Under LAV Video Configuration -> Hardware Acceleration
If I set "Hardware Decoder to use" to "DXVA2 (Copy-Back)"
This method allows LAV/MadVR/MPC-BE to playback UHD HDR MKV with choppy playback issues. Playback is jerky. It's not as bad as I originally encountered. This is more like when you try to play 24p video on a 60Hz refresh rate - maybe a little more jerk then that.   
HOWEVER -- The PQ is phenomenal! Colors are great! I can tell it's very different then non-HDR media. 

For both above tests,
"Trade quality for performance" all boxes were checked;
almost all other options were either the "default" MadVR or the ones suggested by brazen1 in post #205. 
Chroma upscaling was Cubic
Image downscaling was Cubic
Image upscaling was Lanczos

I tried some other settings randomly but they only made playback worse. 

Lastly,

#3
Windows HDR --> ON
Playback UHD HDR MKV in PowerDVD 17
Absolutely flawless media playback - Smooth - No choppiness/jerk.
Absolutely phenomenal PQ. Superb colors. I can tell HDR is working properly. 

The only drawback of this issue is, I have to turn HDR in Windows Display Settings On & Off manually before & after media playback. 

----------

If I had to pick a method to use on my machine today, I would most certainly go with method #3. Despite having to turn HDR On & Off, as I get absolutely flawless media playback with superb PQ & Colors. 

Ideally, I would love if method #2 could work - if I could somehow get rid of the choppiness and jerk in motion. Since no manual HDR On/Off intervention is required. 

I don't seem to quite understand why LAV/MadVR/MPC-BE cannot play back the same media on the same machine and produce the exact same picture quality & colors --- that PowerDVD can? In other words, why does GT 1030 fail to produce the exact same results in MPC-BE/MadVR, but produces brilliant results in PowerDVD? I've compared the PQ between the DXVA2 (Copy-Back) method & PowerDVD method and neither of the two is superior - they are pretty equal. So I have to relent that GT 1030 is fully capable of UHD HDR MKV playback. 

Really wish I could get method #2 to work. But for now, I'll stick with method #3 unless I can figure out otherwise. 

Thanks.
Hey @luci5r,

i have a similar hardware, older i3 and a 1030. Did bought the 1030 to get 4k hdr playback on my philips 65PSU8102 TV.
Sadly, running into the same issues, that the MPC/LAV/MADVR doesnt work! Regardless what i have tried in the settings.
Dont want to spend more money on this. So i am looking for a solution for my current hardware....

So here are my questions to you, because you are have worked out the best solutions for this hardware on the past pages:
  • what external player do you use for HDR UHD mkv's in kodi?
    When i have understand the discussions right: DVDFAB 3, right?

  • Does PCF work correctly now in v18a3 64bit windows build?
Thanks a lot
pOpY
Reply
It was simple for someone else.

Reset madVR to its default settings, configure your device and don’t change anything else. Set the CPU and GPU queues to 8 and the present queue to 6. Use D3D11 Automatic hardware decoding. Play a 4K video. If that doesn’t work, then something is at fault.
Reply
(2018-08-02, 00:14)Wanilton Wrote: @luci5r Kodi Leia have now one option "try10bitoutpit" via advancedsettings.xml for send 10 bits to display, it´s the first step for have UHD HDR playback using internal player. Exist one second adjust relationed, but I don´t have precise idea how work (allowdiscretedecoder).
Code:
<advancedsettings>     
<video>  
  <allowdiscretedecoder>false</allowdiscretedecoder>
 </video>
  <try10bitoutput>true</try10bitoutput>    
</advancedsettings>

About try10bitoutput = added 10bit output if supported. Allow output 10bit videos without converting them to 8bit.
About allowdiscretedecoder = added the possibility to use a separate device for decoding (disabled by default). it allows avoiding lockups of device's context.  

@Wanilton :

Thank you so much for your response. This I was not aware of. It does feel like a step in the right direction. I don't believe this alone would suffice, and there's still some ways to go - but it's promising that Kodi is actually moving in that direction. It seems logical, given the upsurge in UHD HDR demand. I'll definitely try the above though, and continue to use the external players. Thanks!

  
pOpY Wrote:Hey @luci5r,

i have a similar hardware, older i3 and a 1030. Did bought the 1030 to get 4k hdr playback on my philips 65PSU8102 TV.
Sadly, running into the same issues, that the MPC/LAV/MADVR doesnt work! Regardless what i have tried in the settings.
Dont want to spend more money on this. So i am looking for a solution for my current hardware....

So here are my questions to you, because you are have worked out the best solutions for this hardware on the past pages:
what external player do you use for HDR UHD mkv's in kodi?
When i have understand the discussions right: DVDFAB 3, right?

Does PCF work correctly now in v18a3 64bit windows build?
Thanks a lot
pOpY

Hi @popy :

Yes, i Have to agree that I was quite excited when I found out about GT 1030 - it seemed like the best choice at the time; unfortunately I was an early adopter and real reports on it's performance didn't generate till much later. There's actually an article on Forbes now describing the major flaws & marketing shambles associated with GT 1030 & Nvidia. Yes, the card turned out to be a disappointment. It's an excellent card for HTPC, but not if your main reason for purchase or primary use was going to be UHD HDR playback - and that was exactly the reason I bought the card.

A little fortunate for me, this is a very, very old HTPC and due for an upgrade - It is also not my main/primary HTPC - it's a secondary bedroom HTPC, so my association with GT 1030 is short lived. I'm actually just waiting for the next/new Nvidia (1100?) lineup to appear and prices to go down on the current Pascal lineup. My main HTPC/Gaming Rig features a GTX 1080 which I'm going to either replace with the new 1100 offering, or a GTX 1080ti (possibly 2 for SLI), and my GTX 1080 will then move into this secondary HTPC. At that time I'm also going to upgrade to 8th gen Intel on this machine, so all in all, this is a temporary setup for me.

To answer your questions:
- All my UHD HDR MKVs & ISO rips play in DVDFab v3. Playback is flawless with GT 1030 and no Windows HDR & WCG handling required.
- All my BD ISO's play in PowerDVD 18
- All other media in Kodi internal video player

- I have not yet updated to v18a3 yet for Kodi, I'm still on Alpha 2. PCF has partial behavior on Alpha 2. It will launch the external player correctly the first time, but after that, unless you Quit & restart Kodi, it will launch everything in the same external player.

I have been meaning to upgrade to Alpha 3 and might do it later this week. If I do, I'll let you know what I find. If you (or anyone else) does so before me, please post your experience.
Warner306 Wrote:It was simple for someone else.

Reset madVR to its default settings, configure your device and don’t change anything else. Set the CPU and GPU queues to 8 and the present queue to 6. Use D3D11 Automatic hardware decoding. Play a 4K video. If that doesn’t work, then something is at fault.

This is for GT 1030? I've never seen this before. If this is for GT 1030, I would love to try it. I'll give it a shot later today or tomorrow. Thanks for posting this.

Thank you.

EDIT:

@Warner306 :

By "present queue", do you mean "how many frames shall be presented in advance" under Windowed & Exclusive mode settings?
"Use D3D11 Automatic Hardware Decoding" is referring to LAV Filters settings, not MadVR, correct?

Thanks!
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