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Intel Gemini Lake
(2018-09-25, 22:01)LuffyyffyL Wrote: I have installed Kodi 18 beta 3 and i don't have problem anymore. It's coool Smile
 I can confirm this.
H.265 10 Bit worked well with LibreELEC 8.9 Alpha (= Kodi 18) in HW-decoding on my Gemini Lake board but not on Kodi 17.6 (Linux Mint and Manjaro; SW-decoding - H.265 4K 10 Bit with 100 % CPU). It seems to be an issue in Kodi 17 or a new feature in Kodi 18.

Since I don't use LibreELEC I'll wait until Kodi 18 is released.

P.S.: I need a full OS or at least dual boot. Wink
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(2018-09-27, 00:56)NeroRome Wrote:
(2018-09-25, 22:01)LuffyyffyL Wrote: I have installed Kodi 18 beta 3 and i don't have problem anymore. It's coool Smile
 I can confirm this.
H.265 10 Bit worked well with LibreELEC 8.9 Alpha (= Kodi 18) in HW-decoding on my Gemini Lake board but not on Kodi 17.6 (Linux Mint and Manjaro; SW-decoding - H.265 4K 10 Bit with 100 % CPU). It seems to be an issue in Kodi 17 or a new feature in Kodi 18.

Since I don't use LibreELEC I'll wait until Kodi 18 is released.

P.S.: I need a full OS or at least dual boot. Wink  
 It may also be that LibreElec 8.9 contains newer Intel drivers that added support?  Or as you say - Leia adding support too.
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(2018-09-25, 09:38)LuffyyffyL Wrote: Can we expect an update of the drivers so that the HDR is taken into account ?

I think various Intel message board threads have returned the answer that HDR is a Core-i feature and not likely to be implemented on lower-end CPUs...
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Maybe in the next Gen low-end IGP's we will also get that, but till there's a long way to go...
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(2018-09-28, 05:41)Mount81 Wrote: Maybe in the next Gen low-end IGP's we will also get that, but till there's a long way to go...
 I expect this is purely a policy decision, not a hardware limitation.  The only difference between HDR replay and output to an HDR display of HDR10 HEVC 10-bit 2160p content (which low-end Intel IGPs don't do) and SDR replay and output of SDR HEVC 10-bit 2160p content (which low-end Intel IGPs do do) is the insertion of an 'I'm ST.2084 EOTF' flag and a small amount of light-level metadata in HDMI info-frames or similar, and for HLG HDR content it's simply an 'I'm HLG EOTF' flag (coupled possibly with an 'I'm Rec 2020 gamut' flag)?

This is almost certainly a limitation enforced at the driver level it seems to me - not necessarily a hardware limitation?  That said - conversion of HDR content to SDR may be a bigger processing issue which has meant HDR support has been nixed irrespective of output format (but I don't think it is?)
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It's clear, one must buy at least an i3 to have HDR, stinky marketing pull. First they dropped on us a brand new -and also more budged- IGP with Gemini that has -at last- native HDMI 2.0, but, no-no, don't be so cheer full, as they just somehow "forgot" to implement the HDR support, but almost the same time they just enabled it in some of their even 7th Gen Core IGP's, that also weren't capable before? Easy to see through the sieve...  

My presumption is that there would be no hardware obstacle in the Gemini IGP's to enable HDR with a driver update at all... The intention what is missing.
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https://downloadcenter.intel.com/downloa...CH-Drivers

Intel 25.20.100.6471 driver.
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(2018-10-02, 21:15)HDGMA Wrote: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/downloa...Windows-10

Intel 25.20.100.6323 driver.
What do you want to tell us?
It would be fine, if you tell us what you want to say.


What I read: Gemini Lake on laptops support HDR10 but only on internal laptop displays. IMHO this means, that Gemini Lake supports HDR in principle but only internal and not by HDMI. The more interessting or more relevant versions for Kodi (on a HTPC/Media PC) might be the desktop versions (J4005, J4105 and J500) and there is (officially) no HDR supported. Let's hope that at least the Pentium Siver (J5005) will get HDR.

---

BTW: For me it's actually not clear what HDR means in detail in this context. The relevant HDR standards (HDR10, HDR10+, HLG and Dolby Vision) use at least 10 bit. Even if Gemini Lake supports encoding of 10 bit (HEVC, VP9), I don't know what this means for me. With 10 bit a main feature of HDR is supported, i.e. we can have more than 16.7 Mio. colors/17.6 stops. Basically this is already HDR.
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(2018-10-02, 23:04)NeroRome Wrote: What I read: Gemini Lake on laptops support HDR10 but only on internal laptop displays.
 Where did you read that? Yes it says so in the driver's release notes, but this is a "generic" driver, for all of the recent IGP's, not just for Gemini. And no Gemini specific statements I've could find regarding. So i guess it still applies only to the IGP's that already had HDR support. Regardless I think it's right that it could have HDR support if they wanted to have so...
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(2018-10-03, 04:38)Mount81 Wrote:
(2018-10-02, 23:04)NeroRome Wrote: What I read: Gemini Lake on laptops support HDR10 but only on internal laptop displays.
 Where did you read that? Yes it says so in the driver's release notes, but this is a "generic" driver, for all of the recent IGP's, not just for Gemini. And no Gemini specific statements I've could find regarding. So i guess it still applies only to the IGP's that already had HDR support. Regardless I think it's right that it could have HDR support if they wanted to have so...  

Yes, I read this, but I read it a little bit wrong. Maybe I read it too fast or it was too late. Blush

What I read wrong is the restriction to internal displays only!
It seems to be also on external display: "enabling full quality HDR10 ... on both external and laptop displays" (first sentence of the release notes).
Unter "NEW FEATURES" of the release notes it's summarized to "HDR10 in embedded laptop displays" and "HDR and EDR enhancements for external and laptop displays". [I never heared the term EDR (Enhanced Dynamic Range) before.]

It's clear that this is a generic driver (but only for 6th generation and later, including Appollo Lake and Gemini Lake).
Since this is a thread for "Gemini Lake", I only consider Gemini Lake.

If the release notes say that HDR/HDR10 is supported now and if there is no restriction for Gemini Lake, I assume and expect that HDR is also supported by the Gemini Lake chips!
Since I'm not using Windows and I don't have a HDR display, I can not test it.


I know, there are a lot of statements that Gemini Lake is not supporting HDR. I'a afraid that this is still true.
It's also very disturbing, that Intel specified HDR in its J5005-NUC initially.



P.S.: Intel, look at the new Fire TV Stick 4K, which will support HDR, incl. Dolby Vision, at a price of 50 $.
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(2018-10-04, 02:53)NeroRome Wrote: P.S.: Intel, look at the new Fire TV Stick 4K, which will support HDR, incl. Dolby Vision, at a price of 50 $. 
 Including local video playback, with proper auto freque switching and cadence perfect, also with HD audio passthrough? Or just for the usual online streaming apps?
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(2018-10-02, 23:04)NeroRome Wrote: BTW: For me it's actually not clear what HDR means in detail in this context. The relevant HDR standards (HDR10, HDR10+, HLG and Dolby Vision) use at least 10 bit. Even if Gemini Lake supports encoding of 10 bit (HEVC, VP9), I don't know what this means for me. With 10 bit a main feature of HDR is supported, i.e. we can have more than 16.7 Mio. colors/17.6 stops. Basically this is already HDR. 

That's not what is usually taken as the meaning of HDR. 10-bit video alone isn't HDR - after all 10-bit video has been in widespread use in SDR broadcast production areas since the days of Standard Def. For HDR to be supported on a display, the display really needs to follow an HDR EOTF (Electro Optical Transfer Function - a bit like gamma) and have a bright enough maximum light level, and dark enough black level, for this EOTF to display something with a higher dynamic range than conventional SDR.
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(2018-10-04, 08:46)Mount81 Wrote:
(2018-10-04, 02:53)NeroRome Wrote: P.S.: Intel, look at the new Fire TV Stick 4K, which will support HDR, incl. Dolby Vision, at a price of 50 $. 
 Including local video playback, with proper auto freque switching and cadence perfect, also with HD audio passthrough? Or just for the usual online streaming apps?  
That's not the point, but I see nothing why it should not be available on local playback. Feel free to check the specifications of the new stick when they are available and/or check the device.
The point is, that a book dealer brings a device which supports HDR for 50 bucks and big Intel refuses HDR on Gemini Lake, on a presumable more powerful platform with a noteable higher price.
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If it won't work better for local 4K / HDR (or even will worst), than the Gemini, than whats's the point at all? At least in that case I couldn't see any for my preferences. Anyway: I guess DV and Atmos support will be like just in the case of ATV 4K, so for streaming apps only, and thus Atmos is still stuck at DD+ SD, and no HD passthrough support at all. And on the top: it's Wi-Fi only, so for local high-bitrate 4K playback you will need a very exceptional fortune to get it working stutter-free. 

It's absolutely regardless of Intel's greedy marketing politics. I just look at that what will work and what not compared to my needs, and thus i guess this stick won't either redeem the market. (Tho' seems good choose for a Streaming app only player, mainly for it's budget price, if one looks only for this kind of playback, and if these apps are just -somehow- missing from he's display's app list).
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Question 
Dear all,

Is HDR now supported on an Intel Gemini Lake based mini pc, for example N4100 with Windows 10 Pro 64 (1809 newest drivers, especially for the built-in graphic 600)?

Thanks in advance,
Joe

Happy and healthy new year - all the best to you and yours.
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