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4K HDR10 - State of Play thread - important media player limitations.
(2022-01-24, 22:58)JustATest Wrote: Hi,
ODroid N2+ is basically impossible to buy, so I am looking for something else cheap.

I have tested my Network with my TV @ 100mbits on Plex, it seems that it is enough to play 4k HDR 100gb files. I have no external Sound, so there shouldn´t be very high requirements.

I have checked out S905 boxes, but those are either unavailable or quite expensive.

Would be the FireTV Stick 4k max + 1gb Ethernet my best decision or is there anything else I can look at?I guess that due to the USB2, the speed would be around 25-30MB.
Could the Fire TV Cube be an Alternative as it only costs 10€ more, although then with 100mbits.

Have you looked at the Vero 4K+?
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Not available anywhere, costs 200€ used.

What do you think about those "Xiamo MI Boxes" ?

Then again,  why would I take one of those if I can get an TF Stick?...
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(2022-01-25, 17:25)JustATest Wrote: Not available anywhere, costs 200€ used.

What do you think about those "Xiamo MI Boxes" ?

Then again,  why would I take one of those if I can get an TF Stick?...

Isn't the Vero 4K+ available direct from their website with worldwide shipping ? https://osmc.tv/vero/

The Mi boxes run Android or Android TV ISTR - so have all the limitations that that platform implies (though the Shield TV is one of the few Android TV boxes with fewer compromises)

The Fire TV sticks are OK - but quite basic (particularly with audio support)
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(2022-01-25, 17:25)JustATest Wrote: Not available anywhere, costs 200€ used.

What do you think about those "Xiamo MI Boxes" ?

Then again,  why would I take one of those if I can get an TF Stick?...

The Vero 4K + is in stock as well as with our resellers.
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So is Odroid N2 still the best Kodi player ?
Primary Sony 85" X8500F LED, Yamaha RX-V685, Odroid N2 4GB running CoreElec 19.4 RC1 (Kodi Matrix), SVS 5.1 Sound
Secondary Panasonic 50" ST50 Plasma, Pioneer AV916, Asus Chromebox running LibreElec (Kodi Leia)
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(2022-01-24, 22:58)JustATest Wrote: I have tested my Network with my TV @ 100mbits on Plex, it seems that it is enough to play 4k HDR 100gb files. I have no external Sound, so there shouldn´t be very high requirements.
there are ugreen 3.0/1gbps adapter work with to many smart TV.

(2022-01-24, 22:58)JustATest Wrote: Would be the FireTV Stick 4k max + 1gb Ethernet my best decision or is there anything else I can look at?I guess that due to the USB2, the speed would be around 25-
 4k max not need adapter
LG OLED 55E8 - M9702(oppo 203) -  Dinobot U5PVR(Enigma 2) - Meccol KI pro(COREelec) - Sony PS5
AndroidPremiumPlayer blog - HI - Frequency Switcher 
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No that this is a nudge or anything (I'd never presume to do so) but could it be worth updating the pi4 capabilities in the OP?
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Can you speak more in-depth to what the Apple TV 4k v.2 can and can't do when it comes to all things playing ripped discs.   Curious especially about 1:1 rips.   Can it even play them without transcoding first.  What surround formats is it not capable of playing, etc.
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(2021-12-22, 12:46)noggin Wrote:
(2021-12-22, 01:13)madmax2 Wrote:
(2021-12-21, 16:58)noggin Wrote: I guess that's a possibility - still works pretty well for me - though I've not checked out 23.976 vs 24.000 stuff in detail (tvOS 14.5 introduced 1000/1001 support at last). Last release appears to have been November 2020...
Yeah that is what I was afraid 

Paying good money for a strip down app of the real thing
and being reliant on that dev to hopefully keep updating is not good

Yep - there's no perfect solution if you want high quality Netflix, Prime, Disney+ and ATV+ and Kodi on the same box - there are always compromises.  The cost of the app is minimal (like two coffees and cakes in a coffee shop) so that's not a huge barrier to me.  Being able to run MrMC on the same platform I watch the DRM services on, and which has a great UI and remote (now the ATV 4K v2 remote is out...) is a good compromise for me (I don't need add ons) and the ATV 4K v2 has a great CPU so is very snappy and responsive (plus it does 4:2:2 HEVC hardware decode, and has enough grunt for 1080i 4:2:2 h.264 software decode and deinterlace which has come in useful for me - nothing other than Intel platforms will do that for me otherwise)

If I were going purely for cost-benefit and had no requirement for DRM sources I'd go AMLogic and CoreElec, or begin to consider the Pi 4B + LibreElec now it has HDR, 12-bit video output, and HD Audio support, and deinterlacing is back (though avoid this if you rely on 4:2:0 for UHD p50/p59.94 - which is niche).

Shield TV falls between two stools for me - it's similar price to the Apple TV 4K v2, but with poorer DRM support.  Kodi support is better than the ATV 4K (HD Audio bit streaming and Python add-ons), but not better than the AMLogic solutions (ignoring DV)

Can you speak more in-depth to what the Apple TV 4k v.2 can and can't do when it comes to all things playing ripped discs.   Curious especially about 1:1 rips.   Can it even play them without transcoding first.  What surround formats is it not capable of playing, etc.
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(2022-04-08, 15:08)gerard143 Wrote:
(2021-12-22, 12:46)noggin Wrote:
(2021-12-22, 01:13)madmax2 Wrote: Yeah that is what I was afraid 

Paying good money for a strip down app of the real thing
and being reliant on that dev to hopefully keep updating is not good

Yep - there's no perfect solution if you want high quality Netflix, Prime, Disney+ and ATV+ and Kodi on the same box - there are always compromises.  The cost of the app is minimal (like two coffees and cakes in a coffee shop) so that's not a huge barrier to me.  Being able to run MrMC on the same platform I watch the DRM services on, and which has a great UI and remote (now the ATV 4K v2 remote is out...) is a good compromise for me (I don't need add ons) and the ATV 4K v2 has a great CPU so is very snappy and responsive (plus it does 4:2:2 HEVC hardware decode, and has enough grunt for 1080i 4:2:2 h.264 software decode and deinterlace which has come in useful for me - nothing other than Intel platforms will do that for me otherwise)

If I were going purely for cost-benefit and had no requirement for DRM sources I'd go AMLogic and CoreElec, or begin to consider the Pi 4B + LibreElec now it has HDR, 12-bit video output, and HD Audio support, and deinterlacing is back (though avoid this if you rely on 4:2:0 for UHD p50/p59.94 - which is niche).

Shield TV falls between two stools for me - it's similar price to the Apple TV 4K v2, but with poorer DRM support.  Kodi support is better than the ATV 4K (HD Audio bit streaming and Python add-ons), but not better than the AMLogic solutions (ignoring DV)

Can you speak more in-depth to what the Apple TV 4k v.2 can and can't do when it comes to all things playing ripped discs.   Curious especially about 1:1 rips.   Can it even play them without transcoding first.  What surround formats is it not capable of playing, etc.

The ATV 4K v2 plays pretty much everything in video codec terms (wouldn't expect AV1 though) Its CPU is so powerful that stuff it can't hardware decode it can software decode (40Mbs 4:2:2 h.264 1080i25 stuff is decoded and deinterlaced to p50 in software without skipping a beat).  It has hardware decode for consumer 4:2:0 h264/AVC and consumer 4:2:0 h.265/HEVC (and also hardware decode for 4:2:2/4:4:4 h265/HEVC because of the ATV support for Airplay screen mirroring)

The ATV 4K v1 and v2 support PCM 5.1 and 7.1 audio output at 48kHz so 48kHz True HD and DTS HD MA/HRA are output as lossless decoded multichannel PCM, not bit streamed.  For DRM services DD+ with Atmos is supported.  No support for True HD with Atmos or DTS:x bit streaming - so you just get PCM multichannel (no height speaker feeds)

Replay of 1:1 BD and UHD BD rips shouldn't be a problem - I've not noticed major issues - but it's not my daily driver for 1:1 rips. 

MrMC hasn't been updated for a while - the project seems to have gone into hibernation during the Pandemic - though Davila did pop up on the forums again recently.

If you don't want/need DRM services - I'd look elsewhere - but if you want/need frame rate switching support on all the major DRM services - then I've not found anything better than an ATV4K.  The 4K v2 remote control is a massive improvement on the original (you can buy it for the original 4K - but it's not cheap as an accessory).

If I were buying a platform just for Kodi - I wouldn't buy an ATV 4K.  If I wanted the best DRM streamer and the best Kodi solution - I'd still be buying two boxes.
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thank you!  great reply!


So I noticed something with the infuse app on apple tv.    If you pay for the premium version it says  "HD quality audio  -Hear every detail with added support for 24-bit Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HS MA audio"   so does this still mean it can't do atmos?  When it says 24-bit does that mean it can do bitstream?
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Apple TV cannot do lossless Atmos.

It can do lossless decoding without object audio (Atmos/DTS:X). But no bitstreaming.

It can do lossy Atmos.
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(2022-04-09, 16:34)gerard143 Wrote: thank you!  great reply!


So I noticed something with the infuse app on apple tv.    If you pay for the premium version it says  "HD quality audio  -Hear every detail with added support for 24-bit Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HS MA audio"   so does this still mean it can't do atmos?  When it says 24-bit does that mean it can do bitstream?

I haven't checked out what Infuse are doing - but my first guess is that they are doing what Kodi does - lossless decode (for 48KHz tracks, downsample for 96/192?) of  Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA 5.1 and 7.1 audio (and 2.0 / 4.0 etc.) to multichannel PCM 5.1 or 7.1.  The fact that they don't mention "Dolby True HD with Atmos" or DTS:x suggests that they aren't doing bitstream/pass-through, and therefore don't support the height extensions that Atmos and DTS:x add.  Currently to get "Dolby True HD with Atmos" and DTS:x you have to have bit streaming / passthrough from your player to your Dolby Atmos AVR etc.

"Dolby Digital Plus with Atmos" is supported on the ATV 4K and ATV 4K v2 - as that is a format used heavily by DRM streamers.  (I don't know if MrMC supports this)

NB - 'Atmos' isn't a single format - you can't really talked about 'Atmos' support on its own.  Atmos is an extension to existing Dolby Codecs, so you can have "Dolby True HD with Atmos" (as used by Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray) or "Dolby Digital Plus with Atmos" (as used by streaming services - and also sometimes used on Blu-ray for alternative audio tracks), support for one doesn't mean support for the other.
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(2022-01-28, 21:28)Sam.Nazarko Wrote:
(2022-01-25, 17:25)JustATest Wrote: Not available anywhere, costs 200€ used.

What do you think about those "Xiamo MI Boxes" ?

Then again,  why would I take one of those if I can get an TF Stick?...

The Vero 4K + is in stock as well as with our resellers.

Vero 4k+ is a beast, 24/7 since I got it on september 2018, using it just now. All work perfect, I was just checking if there was a new version on Vero web and here, seems still 2018 version on store (all works ok, just curiosity hehe)
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So, the search for good Kodi boxes doesn’t seem to have changed much in the past few years.

I have an Apple TV 4K. Great streaming box, but MrMC and the audio bitstreaming issue makes it a no-go for Kodi.

I have an Amazon FireTV Stick 4K. Surprisingly capable, can run native Kodi, but limited in its output offerings and lack of memory makes it a no-go for big libraries. Yeah, you can add on a USB stick and I did that on my old one, but the speed of Kodi reading that is pathetic.

I have an Amazon FireTV Cube. Actually a rather great box to put Kodi on for simple use, finally enough internal memory to be usable, but again it has problems with output capabilities.

I have a Roku 4K. Again great streaming box, no Kodi possibility.

I have numerous old Asus Chromeboxes still in use. Pretty much the gold standard for a 1080p Kodi box, tons of space, still way faster and more responsive than most modern streaming boxes, but no 4K capability at all.

I have an Odroid N2. So far my go-to box for 4K HDR playback. However one of them has been giving me issues… picture stops outputting, suddenly gets massively laggy and barely working until I reboot, and I wanted to replace it.

Finally, I also have an older 4K SDR television, and I wanted to be able to play 4K HDR videos from my library. Originally I bought the FireTV Cube for that, until an OS update removed its capability for 4K @ 60hz @ 4:2:0, and now it doesn’t even see the screen as 4K. Thankfully the Roku does still support it for streaming apps, but for Kodi I’ve been forced to go to a full blown Windows PC, which has proper compatibility with my 4K screen, full audio bitstreaming, and the best HDR to SDR conversion available.

Reading through all of this it seems the practical choice for a good 4K HDR box is still between a Vero or a N2+.
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