[aptalca]

I am just trying to analyze what direction xbmc is headed in and what the competitors have in store while considering the changes in latest technology and trends.

My little analysis:

First of all I should point out that xbmc used to be on a twice a year stable update schedule up until last year, but since switched to a once a year schedule. That is fine, and I guess it allows the developers to work on major updates/overhauls since they have a whole year to make it mature.

On the other hand, this schedule makes the users' expectations much higher as they are waiting longer, and they expect to see big changes.

(Dharma brought big changes, the one I cared about the most was DXVA support as my cpu usage dropped from 80% to 10% and I became able to play high bitrate mkvs in windows. Mysql support was another one, as it allowed multiple boxes sharing the same library, with more and more people moving their media to dedicated media servers)

Some of the future changes that were mentioned before were the pvr front-end and binary addons. Pvr front-end has been in development for a long time already, and I just found out it will not be included in Eden. Neither will be the binary addons, which I thought would be the most important/drastic change that Eden would bring. (Pvr development is slated for next release due Dec 2012, but with Netflix, Hulu and similar services, many people are cutting their cable and I am curious to see how much interest there will still be in pvr by the time it is mature)

Going through the roadmap for Eden, I noticed that there were a lot of behind the scenes improvements, but nothing that really excites me as a user. Sure, those updates are there to make sure xbmc remains the media center that plays all content, but where is the cutting edge stuff?

I know some people will hate me for it, but I am going to use Plex as an example. Those guys are really staying up-to-date with the tech evolution and are modifying their product to best serve the customers' needs.

The current trends are that mobile device usage in on the rise and it's really steep. These devices are mostly cell phones or tablets running on (mostly) android or ios. In order to serve that need, XBMC released their ios version. It is a very impressive accomplishment. However, porting the entire software over to another platform takes a lot of time and resources. Therefore, we still only have an ios version, but there is no alternative for android.

Plex, on the other hand, took a very different approach. They released a backend with transcoding capabilities, and wrote simple applications for android and ios that connected to the backend and streamed the transcoded content. Transcoding allowed for even the slowest devices to be able to play any video in their library. Apart from compatibility, the backend also allows for remote streaming from across the world. Whereas with xbmc, you pretty much have to be on the same network, no remote viewing of content unless you deal with copying your content onto your ipad.


Now on to what I really would (personally) like to see in this release:

1) I would love to see a juiced up webserver with added support for html5. That way, all those mobile devices would have a way to connect with xbmc without a need for native applications. HTML5 also allows touch input and gestures which is perfect for mobile.

2) Combine that html5 interface with transcoding capabilities, you have yourself an amazing xbmc frontend capable of remote playback of your entire library anywhere you go, on any device that supports html5 (Most of them do these days anyway).

Imagine this:

You buy a cheap $200 android tablet (there are a bunch with capacitative screens). Point the browser to your xbmc webserver and voila, you see a full fledged "Confluence" skin that is fully touch capable.

a) At Home:

You browse through your library, pick a movie and select "Play on living room box" The movie starts on the tv. Half way through, you realize the movie is really boring and you also have a lot of work to do. You pick up your tablet and move to the office. You browse through your music library, find your favorite classical music playlist and select "Play on office box". So you do your work in the office, listening to your classical music while wife and the kids are watching the movie in the living room.

b) Away

The next day, you fly across the country for a conference and at night you are in your hotel room pretty tired. You grab your tablet, connect to wifi and point the browser to xbmc webserver. You select a movie off of your library, connect your tablet to the TV through hdmi and stream the movie from your home media box and play it on the hotel TV.

That is something that would really make me excited. And it is not that complicated anymore. There are open source, cross platform software that do parts of what I envisioned already. For instance "Subsonic" started out as a music streamer, but is now streaming video as well. It works in a browser, although currently uses flash player, html5 player is in the works. Maybe reaching out to subsonic devs for a collaboration would be the easiest way, as they would benefit a lot from xbmc's database and metadata capabilities as well as its name.


Conclusion:

Please don't get me wrong. I am not criticizing xbmc for not having added the two features I suggested above, or saying that the only way I would be satisfied with Eden was if they added them. Far from it (They were just meant to be a couple of examples). I am just trying to point out that there have been significant changes in the tech field and in the way people consume media recently. Their needs are changing and xbmc needs to evolve to keep up with the times. Things that could be done only with xbmc a couple of years ago, are now being done on cheap bluray players using netflix. All these other devices are catching up and are becoming mainstream due to their ease of setup and use. Xbmc needs to stay ahead and remain a pioneer. Two ways of doing that would be to conquer mobile devices and also make itself available on more platforms. Html5 could help out with both objectives.

Either way, with or without mobile devices, I would really like to know xbmc team's long term plans for evolution. Sure, a lot of times, the team likes to remind us that xbmc is an open source, community driven project by telling us that all patches are welcome , but in reality, it is ultimately the xbmc team's responsibility to decide on the long term goals and shape the direction the project is headed in.

[Ned Scott]

tl;dr- plex does not stay up to date. They used XBMC code on their most recent update to get their new shiny features.

A little deeper:

Transcoding servers/clients are a dime a dozen, and many are pointless when those devices can play the content back themselves. Try using Plex on more than one "client" at a time and see how well it works. Transcoding is not the future, and for those who need it in a pinch there are better options out there (even better than Plex).

Touch gestures already work on XBMC v10.1 via the web interface add-ons. XBMC itself has nothing to do with the HTML version being used by the add-on. Supporting HTML 5 doesn't even mean anything. It's just a video tag for convenance sake that everyone is so hot and bothered about (ignoring all the other great things it may or may not offer since it will probably never be finalized and just exist as a buzz word).

Cheap bluray players with netflix still have horrible interfaces. XBMC has always been about the interface.

Don't get caught up into buzzwords and bullshit. Social media interfaces and features that start with the word "My" don't make something cutting edge. Those other projects have time to work on those things because the XBMC devs are doing all the real work for them.

[natethomas]

I'll probably reply more fully in a min, but Ned Scott has a point. Plex's recent release is effectively a Plex skinned version of Dharma (released a year ago) that plugs into their backend server. Mind you, there are some pretty cool features in Plex that I'd love to see in XBMC (On Deck, particularly), but let's be sure to call an orange an orange.

[Jezz_X]

I think the main problem people have here is XBMC is working to the future the right way and not taking the shortcut and just putting stuff out.

Sure from a feature point of view Eden may not contain much changes, but its under lying stuff is changing heaps. This may not mean much to a user who wants stuff like netflix and pvr and other stuff but in the end it makes it easier to add all of these things the proper way.

It also allows us to get "FULL" xbmc that doesn't need any trans-coding onto other platforms that are cheap and easy to set up.

I guess one day its going to get to the point where the base is done time to add in the frosting but we would rather get the base made proper first.

P.S you also have to remember we do all this for free in our spare time. Companies like Plex and Boxee do it to make money from selling you hardware or app's for other platforms like the iOS and Android clients.

[natethomas]

Alright, as for the remainder, I know you said you were partially expecting it, but, honestly, patches welcome. There is nothing "simple" about creating a web server, and if you think there is, then, as the words suggest, you are absolutely welcome to make that happen. Heck, if there is, then I have no idea why Plex made one and closed sourced it, since it clearly must not be very valuable.

Here are the basic facts (and let me assure you that I don't speak for the team in this. Here I'm speaking entirely as a free agent): The tech world is in MAJOR transition at the moment. 5 years ago, it cost $2000 to decode 1080p. 10 years ago, it wasn't possible. 2 years ago, it took an investment of at least $300 to $500. Today, the AppleTV2 can do it for $99 using yesterday's tech.

The simple fact of the matter is that transcoding is rapidly becoming an unnecessary and outdated technology. Within two years, it'll seem absurd for anyone to even feel the need to contemplate doing it. If you don't believe me, do a quick google search for XBMC and "Raspberry Pi." Right now, transcoding is useful, because everyone is rocking intermediate devices that can nearly handle 1080p content, but not quite. That fact is no longer true for the ipad 2 and the iphone 4s, and it won't be true for most other devices in fairly short order.

Mind you, I am with you up to an extent. It'd be nice if XBMC had an attractive webserver backend. I also deeply, deeply hope for XBMC to one day get onto Android in all its full glory. But those are both things that will be nice to happen. Not things that must. Things that must happen are what are keeps devs working late hours for, literally, zero pay. These things include the ability to run addons as services, the almost year long effort to make XBMC run as efficiently as possible on massively underpowered hardware, the constant push to pull dependencies out of XBMC so that it will more easily be ported and adapted to new hardware both known and unknown and more easily interact with new software as it comes along.

Make no mistake, XBMC Eden will likely be a less "sexy" release than Dharma. But every developer on hand has devoted hundreds of hours to the goal that, even if it is less sexy, it will ultimately be more important. Today's totally unexciting developments are what will allow XBMC to get onto Android (and whatever else comes along) in its entirety, rather than as a lightweight "thin client" to some backend somewhere.

Once again, this is just me talking, and I definitely don't speak for the team here, but I expect you're going to be fairly surprised at how the world turns over the next year.

[BORIStheBLADE]

I honestly don't mind the pace new versions are put out. If I paid for the software that might be a different story...

The direction I would love to see xbmc go.. dedicated box does everything the nettops do with a built in ir receiver with dedicated/discrete code built for xbmc with a remote. I'll pay for it!

[davilla]

For example, XBMC Eden contains hundreds and hundreds of hours of work on cross building depends and all the little nuances that this involves. It's long, tiring and boring work and does not even get any facetime as do most of XBMC 'features'. Yet it's a major stepping stone that enables the bridge between desktop and embedded.

Sometimes you just have to work on infrastructure to get where you want to be in the future. Unlike Plex, we don't have a big brother to pull all sorts to fixes and infrastructure updates, we are the ones doing it.

[aptalca]

I knew I was about to open a can of worms by mentioning plex and transcoding

First of all, I'd like to clear up some confusion. I just mentioned transcoding in passing, as it is a small part of a bigger scheme. The bigger scheme being remote streaming. Currently, xbmc does not offer any remote streaming options. There is upnp, but it only works over LAN. Jezz_X and natethomas, you approached the transcoding idea from a "my device cannot play that codec so I need transcoding" aspect. I was approaching it from a reduced bandwidth for remote streaming perspective. For instance if I have a full 1080p movie on my server, I am probably not going to be able to stream it over the internet without transcoding. Sure we can argue that in a couple of years, the average bandwidth for residential internet is expected to be faster, but will it be enough for a 20Mbit stream, or will the hotel I am staying at offer that bandwidth? I can't say.

I totally agree with you guys that Plex, Boxee, etc. can spend the whole year working on their cool features while XBMC spends that time improving their framework which gets put into Plex the next year. It doesn't seem fair. But is that something XBMC team is happy with? I guess my question is, what is the XBMC team's ultimate goal?

Is it to create the best core framework for cataloging and playing media on as many platforms (natively) as possible? I think that sounds right.

But then, is XBMC planning to be the best media center for all media consumers, including the technologically challenged?

OR. . .

Is XBMC planning to be like an OEM that allows other companies or groups to take their core framework and turn it into products for the average end user?

In other industries, OEMs get paid licensing fees (or get paid for the actual product), but XBMC only expects contribution of code due to GPL. However, Boxee adds browser based code and makes it closed source and Plex adds a backend media server, makes it closed source. They seem to only take but not give. Anyway, that's a whole different issue that's been bugging me.


Ned Scott, I understand when you say transcoding is not the future. But don't you agree that remote streaming would add a lot to XBMC? After all, now it's all the rage with cloud computing. And to be honest, I'd like to turn my media server into a "cloud" and access my media wherever, whenever. And sure, those transcoding server/client combos are a dime a dozen, but none of them have the database and cataloging capabilities of XBMC. You guys also mentioned that XBMC is all about the interface. I couldn't agree more. That's why I suggested using the webserver to serve the XBMC interface and the content. Html5 would allow for serving the media much easier than flash, would work on ios and use a lot less battery. Think of it as SlingBox for XBMC. (Currently I use the webserver either for modifying the XBMC database or using it as a remote, but a webserver based media streamer/player would add a whole new meaning to it)

PS. I couldn't care less about social aspects of media centers. I don't care if people know what I am watching or not. What I care about is to be able to access my media in the easiest and the best fashion possible, which XBMC does a great job at it.


I guess I am getting worried that in the future XBMC might turn into a powerhouse engine, supplying the core framework, with the end users having to turn to 3rd party companies or groups like Boxee or Plex, that take the XBMC engine, add their proprietary code on top, and package it as their own software. That would lead to a serious fragmentation problem, where each 3rd party would have their own, unique closed source additions, but no all-in-one product

[wyrm]

Funny enough, the original poster mention that DXVA was a killer feature of Dharma and yet no one has thought to mention 'Dirty regions' in Eden. Dirty region support would have to be at least as important to the users as DXVA for window users was under Dharma.

BTW devs, will this be set as the default behaviour for Eden, or will it remain a advancedsettings.xml option for the release version?

Wyrm (xTV-SAF)

[aptalca]

For example, XBMC Eden contains hundreds and hundreds of hours of work on cross building depends and all the little nuances that this involves. It's long, tiring and boring work and does not even get any facetime as do most of XBMC 'features'. Yet it's a major stepping stone that enables the bridge between desktop and embedded.

Sometimes you just have to work on infrastructure to get where you want to be in the future. Unlike Plex, we don't have a big brother to pull all sorts to fixes and infrastructure updates, we are the ones doing it.

I have no doubt you guys are working extremely hard and we are very thankful. Unfortunately, I am not a developer, otherwise I would be submitting those patches

But I do try to help anyway I can whether it is testing or answering questions, etc.. I am a product manager by day and my skills consist of taking a product idea from inception to market and growing it. So I am looking at XBMC, "the product", and trying to analyze the progress. I didn't mean to offend anyone or sound ungrateful. I just wanted to take a step back, look at the big picture and let the team know of my observations. This is the best way I thought I could contribute to the project development, by providing an objective criticism and hopefully start a fruitful discussion.

[GreenEyez]

Yup, the future is direct playback on all devices, but not yet, we still need transcoding for some situations. I still have an iPhone 3G which obviously won`t playback 1080p over wireless due to the old hardware, but i`m probably only going to change my phone next year since this one still works pretty ok. So until then, i need transcoding, and so do 3GS users. The other situation is when you want to stream over 3G, 1080p high bitrate material would be impossible. So i`m stuck with Plex and their crappy web interface for the media server,, since it`s the only media center app that has a transcoding engine for their server app.

[Robotica]

I love all the platform work being done by team-XBMC; I believe this gives a solid ground for future development. So this is a good choice.

I think, once XBMC supports Andoid and ARM, HTPC-usage will explode. This year there will be sub €100 devices made for Android which can play 1080P. Think about that...... I believe this should be top prio but only a few team devs can do this (Davilla and topfs, who both are very busy already. Maybe some lesser active community members like mcgeagh or others will step in).

The next best thing (beside audio engine, binary addons, touchscreen support, etc) is all the work Jim Caroll is doing. He is trying to make the XBMC addon framework to be language agnostic and for that he (and others) are doing lots of work. Also a great thing, since in future the eco-system will be more vibrant as ever.

The feature that users notice and see are a little pushed to the background. In the end, I believe the power of XBMC can lie within the community, if managed well.

[GreenEyez]

I love all the platform work being done by team-XBMC; I believe this gives a solid ground for future development. So this is a good choice.

I think, once XBMC supports Andoid and ARM, HTPC-usage will explode. This year there will be sub €100 devices made for Android which can play 1080P. Think about that...... I believe this should be top prio but only a few team devs can do this (Davilla and topfs, who both are very busy already. Maybe some lesser active community members like mcgeagh or others will step in).

The next best thing (beside audio engine, binary addons, touchscreen support, etc) is all the work Jim Caroll is doing. He is trying to make the XBMC addon framework to be language agnostic and for that he (and others) are doing lots of work. Also a great thing, since in future the eco-system will be more vibrant as ever.

The feature that users notice and see are a little pushed to the background. In the end, I believe the power of XBMC can lie within the community, if managed well.

The thing is, i haven`t seen those ARM based media players. Aside from Apple (ARM) and Google ( Intel CE4100 ) most of the media player manufacturers like Popcorn Hour or Dune or Xtreamer are still going with those crappy underpowered Sigma/Realtek SoCs.

[darkscout]

Also, HTML5 is just the way stuff is written. You can make yourself a fully HTML5 compliant 'webserver' by just taking all of the files that are served and making them.... HTML5 compliant.

Webservers serve what they are asked to. You can serve craptastic junk or HTML5. I'm not sure how much (if any) of this is needed serverside.

[aptalca]

Also, HTML5 is just the way stuff is written. You can make yourself a fully HTML5 compliant 'webserver' by just taking all of the files that are served and making them.... HTML5 compliant.

Webservers serve what they are asked to. You can serve craptastic junk or HTML5. I'm not sure how much (if any) of this is needed serverside.

Sure html5 is just html, but the webserver does not support dynamic languages like php, asp or jsp. Only static files such as html/css/js are supported, which makes it very limited for a full fledged web interface including a built-in player.

There was a php project that creates a "Confluence" like experience through the browser. It looked really cool and promising, however you had to install it on an apache server and it seems that the original developer is no longer working on it.

You can find it right here