2012-07-02, 13:56
Wonder if AE needs to be made to work better with realtek? that is what my system has for audio and probably allot of others with small scale systems.
2012-07-02, 14:05
@Death-Axe - apologies - I did ask you not to misunderstand my answer and I did not comment unfavourably on your setup - I merely pointed out that you would not receive the full HD experience on sound or vision without appropriate equipment. AE is in the main branch for nightlies now and will have to cater for all configurations in time. I think that one of the main devs for AE (DDDamien) is on a break at the moment, but I'm sure he will review the posts in this thread, so you should get a definitive answer when he returns. I'm on my third HTPC system in about two years in the quest for quality video and audio. Things change so fast it's difficult to keep up with the latest kit! My Fusion-based motherboard (MSI E350IA-E45) handles HD sound formats perfectly on Windows, but won't do so on Linux, which is where I want to be. So I'll have to wait until the drivers are eventually updated to support multichannel sound.
It doesn't work at all well with the Realtek drivers which I had installed on my Fusion motherboard. I had to change to the native ATI/AMD HDMI drivers from the Catalyst Windows update pack in order for a satisfactory video and sound experience.
I did not suggest that to you as you did not seem to be using HDMI, but maybe if different drivers are available for your graphics card and HD audio you could try them. See earlier pages in this thread for details - http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=131237&page=11
(2012-07-02, 13:56)Death-Axe Wrote: Wonder if AE needs to be made to work better with realtek? that is what my system has for audio and probably allot of others with small scale systems.
It doesn't work at all well with the Realtek drivers which I had installed on my Fusion motherboard. I had to change to the native ATI/AMD HDMI drivers from the Catalyst Windows update pack in order for a satisfactory video and sound experience.
I did not suggest that to you as you did not seem to be using HDMI, but maybe if different drivers are available for your graphics card and HD audio you could try them. See earlier pages in this thread for details - http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=131237&page=11
2012-07-02, 14:50
(2012-07-01, 12:26)DocMAX Wrote: Will there be Dolby ProLogic IIx decoding in future releases?
I think that Dolby Prologic decoding is a function of your sound system receiver which enhances standard 5.1 audio to 6.1 or 7.1. My Onkyo receiver supports this, but it's a waste of time for me as I only have 5.1 speakers. It's probably a licensed feature which would have to be paid for by the manufacturer of the receiver. If you are feeding a sound system with analogue feeds from a PC with 7.1 audio there may be "enhancements" in the sound driver which would do the same. If xbmc were to incorporate that feature it might have to be licensed. What is the configuration of your sound system?
2012-07-02, 22:40
Can't use hdmi; My speaker system is optical. My TV will only output stereo through it's optical out. So it's directly connected from the pc to the connection at the back of the sub.
(that aside, I'm happy with what I have. And as I said earlier I seriously doubt the human ear can tell the difference)
Can't use any other drivers as the sound chip is realtek. Graphics card drivers therefore have nothing to do with it.
You said "do not misunderstand bla bla" but let me give you something honest: and from what you just said as well "I buy a new set up every year bla bla" with that kind of thing, you come across as being a douche.
Apart from that though you seem to be helping people as best as you can despite that. So thanks.
(that aside, I'm happy with what I have. And as I said earlier I seriously doubt the human ear can tell the difference)
Can't use any other drivers as the sound chip is realtek. Graphics card drivers therefore have nothing to do with it.
You said "do not misunderstand bla bla" but let me give you something honest: and from what you just said as well "I buy a new set up every year bla bla" with that kind of thing, you come across as being a douche.
Apart from that though you seem to be helping people as best as you can despite that. So thanks.
2012-07-03, 13:15
c'mon guys, the forum is no place to exchange insults :-)
Further testing shows that even using HDMI - WASAPI I'm having the same choppyness issue when playing PAL 25 fps progressive (constant discontinuity errors). So it's not the Realtek driver since for HDMI audio I use the AMD Catalyst one. I have an AMD E-450 based htpc.
Logically that leaves 2 potential causes:
1. The CPU: the (relatively slow) CPU could be causing the issue, because as I mentioned above, everything's good on my Core i7 / nVidia, same test videos, and by the way this one has Realtek drivers (SPDIF - WASAPI)... It's improbable, because I'm experiencing this only at 25 fps, and not at 50 fps nor for HD material! It's very odd that this occurs at the low-end of the spectrum, which should be the easiest on CPU/GPU (i.e. SD/progressive material).
2. The GPU: perhaps a Catalyst video setting is messing with the timing (since my Core i7 has n nVidia GT240 on board, and that works ok). I'm using the recommended settings of "Enforce Smooth Video Playback" ON and Automatic Deinterlacing OFF. But I'll play with these and report back later on the results.
Further testing shows that even using HDMI - WASAPI I'm having the same choppyness issue when playing PAL 25 fps progressive (constant discontinuity errors). So it's not the Realtek driver since for HDMI audio I use the AMD Catalyst one. I have an AMD E-450 based htpc.
Logically that leaves 2 potential causes:
1. The CPU: the (relatively slow) CPU could be causing the issue, because as I mentioned above, everything's good on my Core i7 / nVidia, same test videos, and by the way this one has Realtek drivers (SPDIF - WASAPI)... It's improbable, because I'm experiencing this only at 25 fps, and not at 50 fps nor for HD material! It's very odd that this occurs at the low-end of the spectrum, which should be the easiest on CPU/GPU (i.e. SD/progressive material).
2. The GPU: perhaps a Catalyst video setting is messing with the timing (since my Core i7 has n nVidia GT240 on board, and that works ok). I'm using the recommended settings of "Enforce Smooth Video Playback" ON and Automatic Deinterlacing OFF. But I'll play with these and report back later on the results.
2012-07-03, 15:10
@Voyager - are you experiencing high CPU utilisation when playing music files? I get >70% when playing any of my FLAC files - either 2.0 or 5.1
On video - whether interlaced SD or HD TV or on progressive DVD material, the CPU utilisation is in the 20% - 30% range. I don't see any discontinuities in the log since I replaced the Realtek HDMI audio drivers with the ATI versions. The only slight issue I notice is a subtle flickering effect where there is a large area of a single colour in the picture. Otherwise video is ok.
What may be complicating matters for me is that I'm on the evaluation version of Windows 8 and my graphics card is identified as "AMD Radeon HD 6310 Graphics (Engineering Sample - WDDM v1.20)" As I'm on margro's PVR build I may be several nightly releases behind the version you're using.
On video - whether interlaced SD or HD TV or on progressive DVD material, the CPU utilisation is in the 20% - 30% range. I don't see any discontinuities in the log since I replaced the Realtek HDMI audio drivers with the ATI versions. The only slight issue I notice is a subtle flickering effect where there is a large area of a single colour in the picture. Otherwise video is ok.
What may be complicating matters for me is that I'm on the evaluation version of Windows 8 and my graphics card is identified as "AMD Radeon HD 6310 Graphics (Engineering Sample - WDDM v1.20)" As I'm on margro's PVR build I may be several nightly releases behind the version you're using.
2012-07-03, 15:33
@fat-tony: I'll check the CPU utilisation tonight. I'm using the AE nightly, so technically from that perspective I assume you've got the same AE code. Perhaps can I ask you (since you seem to have a Fusion E450 as well) to try turning off deinterlacing and play a PAL DVD (and use WASAPI of course). On my machine, the fps shown is dancing up and down around 25, but does not stay constant. The video becomes unwatchable, since I've also sync playback to display set to on. Even set to off, it doesn't become a lot better.
2012-07-03, 18:23
@Voyager - I tried with two different DVD ISO files.
A music video (Eric Clapton's Crossroads 2004) which is PAL interlaced. With de-interlacing off it plays at 25fps, but the interlace artefacts are very noticeable. It stays rock solid at 25fps according to the on-screen debug data. I turned on automatic deinterlacing and the fps rate goes up to 50fps and dances around 49 - 51, but no obvious frame drops. The only issue noted is when I hit the back key on the remote and call up the xbmc menu overlay, whereupon the video jitters, but once I go back to fullscreen it's ok again. I use true fullscreen, not a window.
I tried a movie (Death Race) which doesn't look interlaced to me and it plays perfectly fine at 25fps. If I turn on de-interlacing the frame rate goes up to 50fps and again varies slightly between 49.something and 50.something, but no obvious discontinuities. I normally have sync playback to display turned off, but I turned it on for the tests. No difference noted. The CPU utilisation was around 23% - 27% for video watching. Strangely it's over 70% for music playback!
logfile pasted here - http://xbmclogs.com/show.php?id=4430 - just read through all the EPG and tv recording guff! I use my machine for watching local DVB-T. Logfile contains short period of TV (interlaced source which is being de-interlaced) watching, followed by interlaced PAL DVD, followed by progressive (film) PAL DVD.
A music video (Eric Clapton's Crossroads 2004) which is PAL interlaced. With de-interlacing off it plays at 25fps, but the interlace artefacts are very noticeable. It stays rock solid at 25fps according to the on-screen debug data. I turned on automatic deinterlacing and the fps rate goes up to 50fps and dances around 49 - 51, but no obvious frame drops. The only issue noted is when I hit the back key on the remote and call up the xbmc menu overlay, whereupon the video jitters, but once I go back to fullscreen it's ok again. I use true fullscreen, not a window.
I tried a movie (Death Race) which doesn't look interlaced to me and it plays perfectly fine at 25fps. If I turn on de-interlacing the frame rate goes up to 50fps and again varies slightly between 49.something and 50.something, but no obvious discontinuities. I normally have sync playback to display turned off, but I turned it on for the tests. No difference noted. The CPU utilisation was around 23% - 27% for video watching. Strangely it's over 70% for music playback!
logfile pasted here - http://xbmclogs.com/show.php?id=4430 - just read through all the EPG and tv recording guff! I use my machine for watching local DVB-T. Logfile contains short period of TV (interlaced source which is being de-interlaced) watching, followed by interlaced PAL DVD, followed by progressive (film) PAL DVD.
2012-07-03, 20:30
Eureka, I found it! It was a Catalyst setting indeed, "Pulldown detection" was checked. I unchecked it and now audio playback through WASAPI doesn't cause choppy playback anymore.
Thanks fat-tony, for the help you provided by running these tests.
Thanks fat-tony, for the help you provided by running these tests.
2012-07-03, 22:51
(2012-07-03, 20:30)Voyager-xbmc Wrote: Eureka, I found it! It was a Catalyst setting indeed, "Pulldown detection" was checked. I unchecked it and now audio playback through WASAPI doesn't cause choppy playback anymore.
Thanks fat-tony, for the help you provided by running these tests.
That's odd, because pulldown is normally used where movie/film framerates need to be converted to match US(NTSC) framerates of 30 or 60 fps. It's not usually needed in the PAL (25/50 fps environment) and shouldn't be set by default in a European version. It's much easier to match film/movie framerates of 24 fps to the 25 or 50 used in PAL regions. Though, references to PAL or NTSC are getting less appropriate as we move to HD environments of 1920x1080 and where frame rates of 24, 25, 30 and 60 are pretty much handled directly by most modern displays.
I actually resolved the minor flickering issue on my TV display also, by changing the Catalyst settings to 25i. I had it set to 50p There was obviously some slight mismatch between the card settings and my TV. So a win for us both!
2012-07-03, 22:56
hi all...
i have an issue with just installed nightly and audioengine..
when enabling hdmi with 2.0 speakers and only AC3 enabled
audio out to directsound:hdmi
audio out passthrough to: directsound:SPDIF
I have only sound on my panasonic receiver (via SPDIF) but not on my panasonic TV
when disabling AC3 and keeping the other settings as is i have only sound on my TV but not on the receiver...
any thoughts?
i have an issue with just installed nightly and audioengine..
when enabling hdmi with 2.0 speakers and only AC3 enabled
audio out to directsound:hdmi
audio out passthrough to: directsound:SPDIF
I have only sound on my panasonic receiver (via SPDIF) but not on my panasonic TV
when disabling AC3 and keeping the other settings as is i have only sound on my TV but not on the receiver...
any thoughts?
2012-07-03, 23:28
When you set AC3 enabled on xbmc, it is sent via the passthrough setting to which you have allocated the S/PDIF connection - so it plays on the Panasonic receiver. How is the TV connected? I am assuming that you are using an HDMI cable direct from your HTPC to the TV. Because the AC3 sound is routed via passthrough it is not being sent via HDMI. If you try to set passthrough to HDMI what happens? Some TVs can handle AC3 but others may not.
When you disable AC3 on xbmc it decodes the AC3 data internally and sends it over the HDMI connection as PCM data rather than using passthrough, which is why you can hear the sound on the TV but not on the AVR.
I just route everything through my receiver, but yours may not handle HDMI, so you may need to try an alternative strategy if you want to use the TV on its own. Have a look at this thread which discusses a patched version of xbmc which handles dual audio output. Beware, though it's a huge thread
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=86038
Note that this patched version is not supported officially by xbmc and diverges from AE. There may be a way by using profiles within xbmc that you could set alternative sound configurations if you didn't want to keep switching the Directsound settings each time. I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable on profile settings to be sure whether this would work.
When you disable AC3 on xbmc it decodes the AC3 data internally and sends it over the HDMI connection as PCM data rather than using passthrough, which is why you can hear the sound on the TV but not on the AVR.
I just route everything through my receiver, but yours may not handle HDMI, so you may need to try an alternative strategy if you want to use the TV on its own. Have a look at this thread which discusses a patched version of xbmc which handles dual audio output. Beware, though it's a huge thread
http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?tid=86038
Note that this patched version is not supported officially by xbmc and diverges from AE. There may be a way by using profiles within xbmc that you could set alternative sound configurations if you didn't want to keep switching the Directsound settings each time. I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable on profile settings to be sure whether this would work.
2012-07-03, 23:28
Can't be CPU can it? I don't get choppyness through headphones using the analogue speaker jack in the back of the PC. Only through spdif. My GPU is Nvidia.
Considering the fact that Eden has no video choppiness issues, it has to be AE at root. Unfortunately with Eden the audio blips when a file is played and then after a bit with no sounds the connection goes to sleep or whatever it does. This is why I'm using the AE builds.
To steefen: thought pass through connections where for the sound to go to the receiver and not play on the TV? Don't know much about that, but my TV only sends stereo though its passthrough (so I can't use it for serious sound) but when I tried it with my xbox; I only got sound out of the sound system and not the TV.
Considering the fact that Eden has no video choppiness issues, it has to be AE at root. Unfortunately with Eden the audio blips when a file is played and then after a bit with no sounds the connection goes to sleep or whatever it does. This is why I'm using the AE builds.
To steefen: thought pass through connections where for the sound to go to the receiver and not play on the TV? Don't know much about that, but my TV only sends stereo though its passthrough (so I can't use it for serious sound) but when I tried it with my xbox; I only got sound out of the sound system and not the TV.
2012-07-04, 07:59
(2012-07-03, 22:51)fat-tony Wrote: That's odd, because pulldown is normally used where movie/film framerates need to be converted to match US(NTSC) framerates of 30 or 60 fps. It's not usually needed in the PAL (25/50 fps environment) and shouldn't be set by default in a European version. It's much easier to match film/movie framerates of 24 fps to the 25 or 50 used in PAL regions. Though, references to PAL or NTSC are getting less appropriate as we move to HD environments of 1920x1080 and where frame rates of 24, 25, 30 and 60 are pretty much handled directly by most modern displays.
I actually resolved the minor flickering issue on my TV display also, by changing the Catalyst settings to 25i. I had it set to 50p There was obviously some slight mismatch between the card settings and my TV. So a win for us both!
I think the reason that this happens is that we are getting less than perfect 25 fps with WASAPI. Here's my theory: when pulldown detection is turned on with Catalyst, and you have fluctuations in the fps, the driver may think at certain moments that the application is trying to playback e.g. 24 fps video. The pulldown detection kicks in and makes things even worse by introducing more waiting time to the player (sounds like a vicious circle). By turning it off, you let it completely to the player to time each frame.
