Req Music Library editing
#1
So, I have jumped several burning hoops and managed to get XBMC pretty much to my liking (Refocus Big skin on XVBA/minimal). However, it seems to me, Audio/Music is a bit of an afterthought. I have tried several scrapers and all(!) available media(library)managers but so far not one has provided me with the proper tools, so:
  • I'm left with tracks and albums I cannot remove but were never in the library.
  • Collaborations between artists show up as a separate artist.
  • Artist Aliases show up as a separate artist.
  • Multi-volume cd scatter in the library.
  • I have yet to find a way to add custom compilations.
  • Artist scanning uses the top artist in the search results, not the one with the correct name.

So far, I'm feeling a bit underwhelmed by all this. Music is Media too, right? FYI: I've been using ID3 tagging and a proper folder structure for over 15 years. Anyone else has had better results than I have?
Reply
#2
Nevermind, XBMC decided to empty my library by itself, so it's now rescanning 900 albums. Robust, reliable software - the norm these days. Nevermind I have a wife and kids to tend to, Ill just sacrifice the remainder of my sparse spare time fiddling w/ crap software instead of enjoying my media collection.
Reply
#3
Since I cannot delete threads I'll update what I've learned so far:

- all erroneous albums and artists have mystically removed themselves from the library. Im glad it's solved, but worried because nothing changed on my end. This may work the other way as well
- collaborations between artists should be handled by using Artist01<space>/<space>Artist02 in the Album Artist ID3 tag.
- XBMC has no mechanisms in place to link artists to artists. Therefore it does not support artist aliases
- multivolume cd's should be tagged with discnumber using the tagging software of choice, and be placed in the same folder (the folder location is my assumption - I haven't tested playback yet)
- custom compilations can be done using xml-based album.nfo files. Unfortunately the format is undocumented; (incomplete) examples are given
- artist scanning is now completely broken in my installation, i cannot set scraper (preference) and manually pointing it to online locations using artist.nfo no longer works.

All in all, a LOT of work has to be done in order for XBMC to reach mature status when it comes to the music library.
Reply
#4
(2013-03-07, 22:16)Filly Wrote: Nevermind, XBMC decided to empty my library by itself, so it's now rescanning 900 albums. Robust, reliable software - the norm these days. Nevermind I have a wife and kids to tend to, Ill just sacrifice the remainder of my sparse spare time fiddling w/ crap software instead of enjoying my media collection.

Way to be positive about free software to which you have made absolutely no contributions...
Reply
#5
Well i don't have a huge music library,
And i tested a few things and the end result always comes to right tagging.
I read the cdart topic and found the correct settings for Picard to tag my music.
When using that it also places the music even multiple disc albums to it right location and xbmc doesn't have any problem with it.
Using custom compilations is another story but then i don't use them.

But keep in mind it’s a free program you don't need to pay for it,
You’re free to give suggestions.
But the developers can't make it that it solves everyone’s his special way of collecting and needs.

This isn't only with music but also with videos,
some people can make a big mess how they collect/sort/order there collection.
for them it's nice and ordered,
in my view its a big mess.
LibreElec Kodi | Aeon MQ ?
Reply
#6
>>Way to be positive about free software to which you have made absolutely no contributions...

I was thinking the same when reading this...losing the library itself is not such a big deal provided your folders are correctly organized. rescanning does not thake THAT long.
What should I say, I got my 3TB hard drive crashed just 1 week after I finished ripping all my CDs to lossless...lost it all (XBMC not guilty here Angel), ripped it all again Sad and I also have a family WinkWink
Reply
#7
>>absolutely no contributions...? look around and see what I've dugup and documented by experience so far. Developers don't like documenting and XBMC is no exception to the rule, that's for sure. Rescanning might not take that long, but what good is it, if it persist in inputting the wrong information in the database and not letting me correct it?

As for crashing harddrives; I've had my fair share. Enough to having spent serious cash on recovery and plenty more on offsite backup. Still sucks, I agree.

I have participated in a lot of FOSS projects, but have really different experiences with the communities involved. As soon as the first reply is 'STFU it's free', I know I'll be on my own, praying for updates to solve it. Mind you; I have tried goin the XBMC route at least 3 times before the last 6 or 7 years, only to find the platform to be too immature for 'production environment'. IMHO now that XBMC is getting closer to that goal, the focus should be on stability and robustness; not adding more (confusing) features, whereas some build-in functionaliteit feel half-baked. Look around in the forums for the trouble users are having with libray management....My 2 cents.
Reply
#8
Some good points there Filly about not adding plenty of features before the basic ones are 100% operational.

I understand the frustration about not being able to get the library the way you want. Have you tried changing the way your files are organised on your hard drive ? Could this be the reason for your issues with library building ?
Reply
#9
Despite the harsh manner in which the topic is raised I can't help but agree with Filly that, as it stands at the moment, the Music Library side of XBMC needs a serious makeover. I also have several beefs with the current music library, my main ones are:
  • Scraping with the universal scraper is very hit or miss for me and I have had minimal success in obtaining artist fanart and thumbs.
  • I've used foobar2000 to tag my library and with multi-disc items I use the tag %disc number% which does not get recognised by xbmc for these albums.
  • I rip my CDs as flac Images with a cue sheet into one folder. I usually have a backup cue-sheet which I set as a hidden file in the same folder. XBMC picks up this hidden file and duplicates all my CDs in the music library.
  • The way the library is currently structured doesn't support Singles/EPs, Vinyls, Podcasts and Livesets/Live recordings. You are limited to "albums".

I also feel that browsing music library could be done more effectively than it is done currently. Rather than browsing the way we do for TV Shows (Show -> Season -> Episode), the approach that the xbox music gui follows might be more sensible (I admit I have only seen screenshots but it looks more effective to me), have a "three-column"-type setup with artists, releases, songs which filters each column based on your selection.

In any event, these are my thoughts on the music library at the moment. Perhaps we can get a discussion on what the ideal music library would be and see if we can maybe steer the development of the current music library to get to something up to the same standard as the rest of xbmc?
Reply
#10
I've got quite a large music library I think, but personally I find the music library in XBMC pretty good, certainly better than a couple of years ago. PC based systems like iTunes, WMP or MediaMonkey might be easier to navigate through, but of course they are designed to be used with a keyboard and/or mouse, whereas XBMC, as we know, uses a 10-foot interface and therefore things are going to be different. I haven't used WMC for some years, but the music library in that was so slow!

The main focus of XBMC will probably always be movies and TV shows and perhaps there are some improvements that could be made to the music library, but overall I think it is pretty awesome - many thanks to the devs.

The three column system that phool mentions in his post that sounds similar to the PC systems, could work, but my (limited) understanding is that this would require a complete re-work of the music library and personally I'm not sure it's really needed.

Unfortunately, what is needed - with whatever system is used - is a degree of care and attention by the user to make sure their music files are properly tagged. Personally I manually change the tags for each file (or collection of files in an album) in Windows when I am adding new files to my library. I will also manually add the album art folder.jpg and cdart.png to the album folder and the fanart.jpg to the artist folder, if it is a new artist. I then add said files into my MediaMonkey library and make sure everything is looking correct - as sometimes Windows doesn't always work.

MediaMonkey (like many media players) has the function to change many tags very easily in its GUI and even to remove all tags from the files and re-input the tags based on your MediaMonkey library - which I had to do to my entire library when Frodo was released.

If you're starting out with a new library and you haven't taken much care with your audio file tags, then it is going to take a while to get it right - it took me about 3 years to get mine exactly how I wanted it, although that included shifting from WMP (which I hated, because of the album art it automatically creates) to MediaMonkey via iTunes etc... The likes of CDart Manager will greatly speed things up, unfortunately, this addon was either not available or in its early development when I was going through all my albums, so I did it manually and unfortunately, you're probably not going to find every album art you will want on there, but it's a great place to start.

When it comes to artist information, most artists are scrapped fine, most of us will always have some odd artists that aren't scrapped and for these I've created my own nfo files which show the artist information absolutely fine.

Overall, take some care with your audio files outside of XBMC and you will reap the benefits of seeing it all perfectly in XBMC's library along with fanart, cdart, lyrics, artist biographies etc.... - awesome and all for free!!
Reply
#11
Quote:The main focus of XBMC will probably always be movies and TV shows

So, as I repeated many times before, Music != Media in the eyes of the initiators of this software suite. IMHO, that's just ridiculous. A media system should handle all kinds of media.

Quote:The way the library is currently structured doesn't support Singles/EPs, Vinyls, Podcasts and Livesets/Live recordings. You are limited to "albums".

Another example of documentation failing, so let's scatter knowledge around the forum: If you leave the Album Tag empty, it will be a Single/Recording/LiveSet, and show up under Artist View.

Quote:Unfortunately, what is needed - with whatever system is used - is a degree of care and attention by the user to make sure their music files are properly tagged.

Over 90% of my files were perfectly tagged. Still it took me over 3 months and 2 database crashes to get the system to recognize _all files, weed out duplicates in the database, convert wma-files, convert wav-files, recognize artist, recognize _correct artist, etc, etc, etc. This argument no longer stands, maybe it works if you purely listen to mainstream music. The AudioDB is a cruel joke, BTW. The Universal Scraper is indeed a hit-and-miss affair, and then realize yourself it's basically the default.

Oh, and stay away from any autotagging in Mediamonkey, it will just add whatever shouldnt be there in the first place. I concur with Phool
Quote:as it stands at the moment, the Music Library side of XBMC needs a serious makeover.

Maybe a separate taskforce could be started to focus just on that.
Reply
#12
(2013-06-18, 08:08)Filly Wrote:
Quote:The main focus of XBMC will probably always be movies and TV shows

So, as I repeated many times before, Music != Media in the eyes of the initiators of this software suite. IMHO, that's just ridiculous. A media system should handle all kinds of media.

I don't disagree with you that a media system should handle music - personally I think XBMC handles music just fine. All I was saying was that movies and tv shows will probably always be the main focus due to most users desires/needs.

Personally, for me music came first and my movie library came after, but I don't think that is necessarily the case with most users.

Quote:
Quote:The way the library is currently structured doesn't support Singles/EPs, Vinyls, Podcasts and Livesets/Live recordings. You are limited to "albums".

Another example of documentation failing, so let's scatter knowledge around the forum: If you leave the Album Tag empty, it will be a Single/Recording/LiveSet, and show up under Artist View.

Again personally, I don't see the need to differentiate between singles/EP's/live recordings/bootlegs etc... to me they are all fine under albums - I'll know if it's live by the album title, how it sounds, or the fact I just know. Obviously it's a personal thing, but I wouldn't care if it was a single or an EP - normally I would navigate via genre and/or artist and then get a list of all audio media by the artist. You're not listening to a vinyl album, you might be listening to a digitized recording of a vinyl album, but it's still going to be an mp3, wma, flac etc... file, so why would you want to differentiate between the original sources?

Quote:
Quote:Unfortunately, what is needed - with whatever system is used - is a degree of care and attention by the user to make sure their music files are properly tagged.

Over 90% of my files were perfectly tagged. Still it took me over 3 months and 2 database crashes to get the system to recognize _all files, weed out duplicates in the database, convert wma-files, convert wav-files, recognize artist, recognize _correct artist, etc, etc, etc. This argument no longer stands, maybe it works if you purely listen to mainstream music. The AudioDB is a cruel joke, BTW. The Universal Scraper is indeed a hit-and-miss affair, and then realize yourself it's basically the default.

Oh, and stay away from any autotagging in Mediamonkey, it will just add whatever shouldnt be there in the first place. I concur with Phool
Quote:as it stands at the moment, the Music Library side of XBMC needs a serious makeover.

Maybe a separate taskforce could be started to focus just on that.

Sorry to disagree with you, but if your files were perfectly tagged, then they would show just fine in XBMC. I wouldn't let any program - mediamonkey, WMP, XBMC etc... autotag my files, it's never going to be right or how I want it. As I previously said, that is why I took a few years to sort out my library. Take the time for them to look right in another program i.e. mediamonkey and they will look great in XBMC. All you then need the scrapers for is the artist bios, if you have some obscure artists then you can make up your own nfo files.

I disagree that the music library needs a serious makeover - there may well be ways it could be developed and improved, but overall, I think it's looking pretty good so far, it certainly has the wow factor when friends come round!!
Reply
#13
(2013-06-04, 14:28)Buff Wrote: Unfortunately, what is needed - with whatever system is used - is a degree of care and attention by the user to make sure their music files are properly tagged. Personally I manually change the tags for each file (or collection of files in an album) in Windows when I am adding new files to my library. I will also manually add the album art folder.jpg and cdart.png to the album folder and the fanart.jpg to the artist folder, if it is a new artist. I then add said files into my MediaMonkey library and make sure everything is looking correct - as sometimes Windows doesn't always work.
Trust me, I do take care and attention when it comes to tagging. I use Foobar2000 which is pretty reliant on having correctly tagged music.

(2013-06-04, 14:28)Buff Wrote: When it comes to artist information, most artists are scrapped fine, most of us will always have some odd artists that aren't scrapped and for these I've created my own nfo files which show the artist information absolutely fine.
Unfortunately I’m still having trouble scrapping any decent info for my library and I do not think I have that obscure music taste. I'm not sure if there are any particular settings that I have enabled which makes this process not work as it should.

(2013-06-18, 16:54)Buff Wrote:
Quote:
Quote:The way the library is currently structured doesn't support Singles/EPs, Vinyls, Podcasts and Livesets/Live recordings. You are limited to "albums".
Another example of documentation failing, so let's scatter knowledge around the forum: If you leave the Album Tag empty, it will be a Single/Recording/LiveSet, and show up under Artist View.
Again personally, I don't see the need to differentiate between singles/EP's/live recordings/bootlegs etc... to me they are all fine under albums - I'll know if it's live by the album title, how it sounds, or the fact I just know. Obviously it's a personal thing, but I wouldn't care if it was a single or an EP - normally I would navigate via genre and/or artist and then get a list of all audio media by the artist. You're not listening to a vinyl album, you might be listening to a digitized recording of a vinyl album, but it's still going to be an mp3, wma, flac etc... file, so why would you want to differentiate between the original sources?

Maybe then you don't suffer from the same level of OCD as I do Big Grin A user may have the same album from different sources (vinyl recordings can differ from their CD counterparts). Albums and Singles/EPs may have the same title and be released in the same year. As a fan of trance music I happen to collect recorded DJ sets, so a particular artist may have many recorded sets, together with artist albums and single tracks. I’d expect navigating all of that under the “catch-all” of albums could be a nightmare (for the moment I only have albums as part of the xbmc media library). In these scenarios being able to distinguish between all of the above would be beneficial. By using tags, I don’t see why this could not be done.

(2013-06-18, 16:54)Buff Wrote: I disagree that the music library needs a serious makeover - there may well be ways it could be developed and improved, but overall, I think it's looking pretty good so far, it certainly has the wow factor when friends come round!!

Ultimately, as you allude to in your previous posts, how you want to organise your music collection is a personal thing and is up to the individual. However, since we have the option to tag our files how we like, it seems a shame that there is no way (that I am aware) of that we can configure the xbmc music library using all of this readily-available meta-data (provide your tags are in order of course Wink )!
What I meant by saying the music library needs to be overhauled is that the users should be able to configure what gets shown in the music library simply by using tags, independent of what skin you are using. (Similar to the way that Foobar2000 can be customised using “title-formatting”).

I’m obviously aware that this is free software which is being worked on by people in their free-time, so I am in no way ungrateful for xbmc. I just think that the music library can be improved to make the software even more awesome than it is currently. Smile
Reply
#14
Flame Suit on

New forum user here. While I haven't contributed to the code, I still think I can contribute by giving suggestions on how to deal with media files.

First of all, rather controversial, why bother if a media file has video in it? If I want to hear an artist, I don't really care if there is video with the audio. If I'm looking for video and all I have is audio, I may still want to "watch" it. I personally find it annoying that I have to switch between video and audio media files just to "put on some music" that I happen to have in one of either formats. I understand people will want to distinguish between the two, just like they want to distinguish between files on a lot of other criteria as well. However, making a hard decision for your users to not make it possible to combine audio or audio+video based on this "arbitrary" property seems limiting to me. Combining audio and video catalogues as an option would really make things more useful to me and probably a lot of others too.

Second of all, why should "proper" library handling be based on exactly right tagging, directory usage and such? Every application depends on it's own sets of standards and if you finally have your library tagged so XBMC eats it, some other media player you have in another room, or the app you use to make USB sticks for your car radio or whatnot won't agree with that. I know it will be a challenge to code this, but why not try and actually make it easy for your users? Applications like Picard, iTunes and I believe audiomonkey try to figure out what the track is from several clues. They don't rely on rigid tagging or directory tree formats. If XBMC would use the musicbrainz library, or some alternate way of detection, it'd be a lot easier for users to have something that "just works". You may or may not agree with Apple, but this is something they have thought about and it seems to be successful.

I'd really be chuffed if some future version of XBMC would scan for duplicates, ask me if I wanted to remove them from the media and/or library once, possibly even with suggestions on quality if different bitrates or file formats are found of the same media. The ability to just say that anything with "Miles Davis" in the artist name tag would just be shown as "Miles Davis" and not about 25 different artists would be sweet too.

Some people contribute code, some people contribute art work or translations. Some people contribute interaction design suggestions. Some people contribute grief. I'd be careful to not react too negatively to any form of critique or grief. A good idea or suggestion may be hidden inside someone's ranting. It's sure nice to get positive remarks and gratification for all the hard work you put into a free software project. It takes extra effort to take something positive from a rant, especially if you don't agree with the ranter. However, if you try to look at things from someone else's perspective, you may learn things. If you make software that even the biggest whining moron has nothing to complain about, you're doing better than almost anyone.

Having said all these things; I like XBMC and it's on my raspi, which is my main music and video playing device. I can toss almost any file format at it and it just plays it. Thanks for all the work you guys put in so far!
Reply
#15
As a new returnee to XBMC (I used to run it on the orginal XBOX 1 until HD came along), I too am having issues getting to grips with the audio library.

Its functionality is inconsistent with the Video library. Two specific, basic issues/examples I've just encountered:

1. If there is a track shown in the library I haven't found any way to identify where is it physically located - for videos you can do this from the context menu, Episode Information, Path. In library view, I had several tracks which I had no idea where they were being picked up from and were not in my current source. They were not present in file view.

2. I see no way to "clear" erroneous library information for audio, other than removing the whole source, at which point you get the option to remove the content from the library. I'm having to do this on a daily basis followed by a rescan in order to fix folder art issues. With videos the workaround is to set the scraper to none for a particular folder and you then get asked if you want to remove the content. I have made a specific post on this one but no answer so far.

Are there any solutions for these issues?
Reply



Logout Mark Read Team Forum Stats Members Help
Music Library editing0
This forum uses Lukasz Tkacz MyBB addons.