[tutu]

@tutu: It's possible to build Gotham with an updated version of ffmpeg, yes. Obviously you need to know what you're doing when doing so - there are several minefields to hit, but basically the process is to update the internal ffmpeg version and go through the patches to ffmpeg we apply, applying any that aren't already there (many will be superseded as they are patches from newer versions of ffmpeg itself).

Once done, test, test, test some more.

Post-Gotham we'll be looking at moving the internal ffmpeg out into a separate subproject to make it easier to update (i.e. it'll be a fork of ffmpeg's git with our patches on top) which should simplify the above process a little.

Cheers,
Jonathan

Thanks, just forked xbmc and made ffmpeg a sub module. Hopefully will try a compilation later and see how it goes.. I haven't checked which patches need to be applied yet, that will be quite time consuming I bet.

[tential]

It's an interesting issue but well, we'll see how it develops out. All of this talk and hey maybe x265 doesn't become relevant in 2k14 at all. And if it does become very relevant, I'm sure the issue will be addressed. I doubt the XBMC team would sit there and watch x265 become the main go to codec and then just refuse to support it until 2015.

It won't be the main codec even in 2015. It might be a rising star, or even a major contender in 2015, but it will take longer than that for the market to shift. Content providers and consumers are not just going to throw away their old devices that don't have raw CPU power for h.265. Being able to play content back on various devices is a big factor. Plus, the open source encoders will take a long time to really become efficient. The bleeding edge will always have access to custom builds or nightly builds.

So yeah, we'd totally sit there and wait until 2015 for an h.265 stable release. (not saying we will, but it's certainly possible)

The amount of CPU power that it takes to run x265 I feel is grossly overstated in this thread a lot. Look at the post directly above you. That's a 7 year old processor handling x265 content at 75% CPU utilization. And it's a low end processor I keep reading completely unfounded statements saying that consumers will not be able to play x265 content on old devices but we're worried about XBMC users. Consumers will be able to watch x265 content if they get their hands on it. XBMC users will DEFINITELY be able to handle x265 content on their CPUs. I'm willing to guess that MOST XBMC users have a CPU stronger than a 7 year old low end CPU. CPU performance hasn't remained idle in 7 years either, the new Celeron scores 3x higher than this old processor in Passmark (Hate using synthetics but only thing you can findo n low end processors).

The point is obvious though, processors can handle x265 content.

As for x265 being the main codec? Content Providers (Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, etc.) moving to x265 doesn't have a HUGE impact on XBMC users at all. We aren't watching their services we're using XBMC. The more telltale sign that x265 is important is when release groups (who tend to move before content providers), move towards x265. After that, it'll only be a few short months (if even) before everyone demands their content player supports x265.

[Ned Scott]

(minor nitpick, x265 an encoder library, H.265 is the codec)

Not all H.265 content is created equal. Not all H.264 content is created equal either. The high CPU usage comes in when the various settings are really cranked up, in order to get real file size savings without losing quality. There was an ARM processor vender at CES that demoed H.265 being software decoded, but it was a joke because the compression wasn't very complex and there wasn't a lot of work for the processor to do. It's one thing to be able to handle the codec at all, and another to be able to keep up with what will likely be the common settings (otherwise there isn't much point in using H.265 over H.264).

EDIT: Note that the video from the screen shot is 640x360.

"Scene release" standards are not likely to change for 2015. Individual groups might foolishly try to jump on the latest encoders, but it will be a long time before it over takes H.264. Like I said, it will take time, especially for an open source implementation, to actually gain the benefits of the standard (size/quality ratio). There will be little incentive to use H.265 over H.264 until that happens, and even then there will be releases for H.264 for years. Heck, most groups still provide divx versions of releases.

Don't get me wrong, I want it to happen sooner than later, because H.265 is an actual standard. It will replace non-standard (at least in the consumer space) stuff like Hi10P. It just takes time, even though I expect H.265 adoption to be far more aggressive than H.264 was. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I don't think I will be. In 2015 H.264 will still "outrank" H.265 as the main go-to codec for the masses.

[twelvebore]

I'd like to buy some H.265 Blu-rays. Any idea where I can get some?

Secondly, why should the choices of a bunch of pirates dictate the development choices of XBMC?

[nickr]

I'd like to buy some H.265 Blu-rays. Any idea where I can get some?

Secondly, why should the choices of a bunch of pirates dictate the development choices of XBMC?

Because whether the devs like to admit it or not, that's where a lot of the material played in xbmc comes from. Look at the threads devoted to bittorrent, sabnzbd, couchpotato, sickbeard. I'm not condoning piracy, but people will bitch if they can't play the movie they spent their monthly internet allowance downloading.

[twelvebore]

I'd like to buy some H.265 Blu-rays. Any idea where I can get some?

Secondly, why should the choices of a bunch of pirates dictate the development choices of XBMC?

Because whether the devs like to admit it or not, that's where a lot of the material played in xbmc comes from.

The devs dev because they're devving what they want to dev.

If the users want to bitch that devs aren't devving what they (as individual users) want then the users should stop bitching and start devving. No reason for the devs to respond to the whinges of muppets with an over-developed sense of entitlement. I think that users who bitch because they can't play their ill-gotten gains should be called out and be asked to justify why they, individually, need this functionality, and where they got their content from.

Any user with dodgy H.265 content and an ounce of sense would STFU and wait for the natural course of things.

[tential]

Twelvebore, your point is utterly irrelevant to the situation.
In fact, I'll just quote the XBMC "Manifesto".

"Apply the Law of Diminishing Return - The majority of the effort should be invested in implementing features which have the most benefit and widest general usage by the community."

If x265 implementation will benefit a TON of people, then thats when implementation should be looked into, regardless of where the content comes from.
Hence why I've said that the most likely time x265 implementation will be clamored for is when release groups move to that standard because like nickr said, whether we like it or not, that's how a LOT of people get their content.

[nickr]

It may be that if h265 is taken up quickly there would be grounds for an "interim" release after gotham, a quick incorporation of the latest ffmpeg code and get it out the door with no other new features.

By the way has there been any discussion of the name of the release after gotham?

Harrenhal? (Fictional city starting with 'H')

[tential]

It may be that if h265 is taken up quickly there would be grounds for an "interim" release after gotham, a quick incorporation of the latest ffmpeg code and get it out the door with no other new features.

By the way has there been any discussion of the name of the release after gotham?

Harrenhal? (Fictional city starting with 'H')

Exactly. I'm not worried about x265 implementation at all into XBMC. I know that when I amass x265 content, the support will be here. I trust that after seeing how XBMC has evolved since Eden.

Harrenhal might be a little hard lol...
How about Haven?
A little unimaginative I know lol.

[nickr]

Do you mean Haven or Heaven? (If the latter there will be wars about whether or not it is imaginary!)

[tutu]

XBMC with a more recent version of ffmpeg is compiling as we speak after modifying some configure output

Actually no it's not..

In file included from /xbmc/lib/DllAvCodec.h:26:0,
from DVDAudio.h:33,
from DVDAudio.cpp:23:
/xbmc/lib/DllAvUtil.h:112:30: error: ‘AVFrame’ has not been declared
virtual void av_frame_free(AVFrame **frame)=0;

Any again with a decent configure options:

CPP xbmc/addons/AddonCallbacksAddon.o
In file included from /xbmc/lib/DllAvCodec.h:26:0,
from /xbmc/lib/DllAvFormat.h:26,
from EncoderFFmpeg.h:25,
from CDDARipJob.cpp:30:
/xbmc/lib/DllAvUtil.h:112:30: error: ‘AVFrame’ has not been declared
virtual void av_frame_free(AVFrame **frame)=0;

frame.h now sits at /xbmc/lib/ffmpeg/libavutil


Any ideas?

Update - added frame.h to lib/DllAvUtil.h and compiling again

[tential]

Imagination Land is my FAVORITE episode group of South Park. Thanksgiving Special was good, but felt a LITTLE tryhard. Imagination Land was just perfect.

[tutu]

OK looks like I need to apply some patches to ffmpeg otherwise I get some undefined symbols

[DJ_Izumi]

OK looks like I need to apply some patches to ffmpeg otherwise I get some undefined symbols

If you get this compiled for Windows, I'd love to take a look. Not interested so much for 'NEED HEVC NOW' but 'So, let's see what sorta CPU usage I'll have with HEVC on my XBMC Box and plot future upgrades if necessary.'

Though some anime fansub groups have already done the occasional, random, HEVC test encode and put it out there. So maybe we'll see a shift sooner than later in some circles.

[tutu]

It's compiled and I'm now playing a h.265 HEVC encoded file in XBMC!!!

I'm seeing about 40% CPU usage on my Intel Haswell NUC That's just on 1 core, the other ones don't seem to be used much. This is on a 4gb 720p encode.