[TugboatBill]

Every PVR on the market has the ability to view live video. Why? Because if they didn't consumers would complain and stop buying them.

We all have different wants and needs.

[w84no1]

I watch LiveTV and watch recorded shows. I use XBMC PVR so that I can distribute TV around the house. My provider is DirecTV and I lease 2 boxes and connect them to Hauppauge HDPVRs (I also have 2 ATSC tuners). I have 11 TVs, and it would cost me a fortune to lease that many boxes, so XBMC PVR is the solutions. I can live with channel change speed, I am trying to train my family (who have used WMC for 5 years) on all the cool stuff XBMC has to offer.

[sub3]

Just tested with a timer last night, for me it takes 2,5 seconds to see the first frame, then another 0,7 seconds for video starts playing. On unencrypted channels it's about one second less, so I can't really complain here. There's no practical difference between SD and HD for me. I'd much rather see developer time spent on fixing the remaining bugs with the PVR functionality instead of trying too hard to chase down channel switching times, especially since it's highly backend-specific (as are certain other bugs of course).

You're using tvheadend though, so won't see the problem. tvheadend and vdr work differently from the other pvr addons (by delivering pre-demuxed streams) so don't have the issue with slow channel change times. I'm pretty sure you'll find the users of every other pvr addon do think it's worth while that more effort is spent improving the channel change time - ideally along the lines of margro's change.

After trying to set up NextPVR on a friends computer and ultimately having to give up, I'd say those who insist on getting PVR stuff to work on Windows will have to deal with the consequences. From what I've read, VDR is very good though I still recommend tvheadend to anyone who asks.

Regardless of whether you had a problem setting up a specific back end, these slow channel change limitations effect a lot of people with various backends (MythTV, MediaPortal, NextPVR, Argus, WMC etc), so it's definitely worth investing more time in. Its not practical to tell everyone they should shift to tvheadend or vdr.

[negge]

@sub3: that's not exactly what I meant, I was just saying that people shouldn't use Windows for the backend in the first case, which pretty much leaves tvheadend and vdr as the remaining decent clients (I suppose MythTV is okay too, haven't used it since 2004 or something).

[TRiddle]

I watch LiveTV and watch recorded shows. I use XBMC PVR so that I can distribute TV around the house. My provider is DirecTV and I lease 2 boxes and connect them to Hauppauge HDPVRs (I also have 2 ATSC tuners). I have 11 TVs, and it would cost me a fortune to lease that many boxes, so XBMC PVR is the solutions. I can live with channel change speed, I am trying to train my family (who have used WMC for 5 years) on all the cool stuff XBMC has to offer.

Your setup is eerily similar to mine (minus the 11 TVs part, but I'm getting there). I'm interested to know what backend you are currently using and what skin you like to run for live tv functions. I'm finding most of the skins that I've tried for it thus far aren't quite meeting my expectations, and before I dust off my very rusty coding skills, was curious to know what you were using. Thanks.

[mayoman]

Its not practical to tell everyone they should shift to tvheadend or vdr.

I disagree
The point the OP is making is that fast channel changes are not important if you use PVR functionality intelligently. However, for a lot of people channel hopping is an ingrained habit - and if that is the case for you or your family members, then is it not reasonable to say you should use tvheadend or vdr?
Surely no different than saying you should use a Windows OS if you want Netflix?

[sub3]

@sub3: that's not exactly what I meant, I was just saying that people shouldn't use Windows for the backend in the first case, which pretty much leaves tvheadend and vdr as the remaining decent clients (I suppose MythTV is okay too, haven't used it since 2004 or something).

That's not realistic. Whether you like it or not, the majority of users are using Windows, and their PVR backends are working fine for most of those users

The particular issue with slow channel change times is nothing to do with the operating system the backend is running on though, and the same limitations applies to Linux users of the MythTV and IPTV addons.

We've seen Margro's build fix this slow channel change, so I'm just advocating for this or something like it to be included in the main stream.

[drpizznock]

The point the OP is making is that fast channel changes are not important if you use PVR functionality intelligently. However, for a lot of people channel hopping is an ingrained habit - and if that is the case for you or your family members, then is it not reasonable to say you should use tvheadend or vdr?
Surely no different than saying you should use a Windows OS if you want Netflix?

so what's the point of this thread? is it to solicit feedback and then tell people they are doing it wrong? for a lot of users channel hopping and watching live tv is primary functionality, ability to record program ad-hoc or on a schedule is secondary. it's not reasonable to tell them otherwise especially if their current solution works.

[nickr]

The point the OP is making is that fast channel changes are not important if you use PVR functionality intelligently. However, for a lot of people channel hopping is an ingrained habit - and if that is the case for you or your family members, then is it not reasonable to say you should use tvheadend or vdr?
Surely no different than saying you should use a Windows OS if you want Netflix?

so what's the point of this thread? is it to solicit feedback and then tell people they are doing it wrong? for a lot of users channel hopping and watching live tv is primary functionality, ability to record program ad-hoc or on a schedule is secondary. it's not reasonable to tell them otherwise especially if their current solution works.

My point was to start some debate over how we use our PVRs - but why do you use PVR if you are channel surfing and watching Live TV? Why not just watch the damn TV?

[sub3]

My point was to start some debate over how we use our PVRs - but why do you use PVR if you are channel surfing and watching Live TV? Why not just watch the damn TV?

I record lots of stuff, but also like to watch tv and channel surf, and I like to be able to pause and rewind live tv. I'm sure lots of people do the same. There is no reason why they should have to leave XBMC to watch tv. Some people may also not have pause/rewind live tv features when they "just watch the damn tv", so doing it through XBMC may give them some additional benefits.

XBMC already does these things, so we're really just talking about some adding some polish.

[negge]

I'd guess many people use their computer for watching TV due to that thing of which we do not speak. In either case, I think it's wrong to say that some people use XBMC "unintelligently", if that's the case then why have PVR functionality at all, seeing as all backends provide ways to set up recordings themselves.

[drpizznock]

My point was to start some debate over how we use our PVRs - but why do you use PVR if you are channel surfing and watching Live TV? Why not just watch the damn TV?

Why do we need to debate about how we individually use features we have come to expect from a PVR since introduction of TIVO? The entire point of the device was to give more freedom over how TV is watched. Now with On-Demand and options like Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu and etc. there are even more ways to watch TV.

Why not just watch the damn TV? Because I can only watch one program at a time. Major networks schedule their best prime time shows to compete at the same time slot. There are multiple sporting events on at the same time.

---

My point was to start some debate over how we use our PVRs - but why do you use PVR if you are channel surfing and watching Live TV? Why not just watch the damn TV?

I record lots of stuff, but also like to watch tv and channel surf, and I like to be able to pause and rewind live tv. I'm sure lots of people do the same. There is no reason why they should have to leave XBMC to watch tv. Some people may also not have pause/rewind live tv features when they "just watch the damn tv", so doing it through XBMC may give them some additional benefits.

XBMC already does these things, so we're really just talking about some adding some polish.

FWIW it is the back-end that does the heavy lifting. XBMC plays and controls the stream. XBMC will not work with copy-protected TV content. The only one that currently does is WMC.

[giaur]

If you mean that channel changing is not important I dont understand your point of view. For me it's very basic and most used functionality. And it makes me crazy when xbmc hangs on channel switching.

For pvr itself you dont even need to use xbmc. Tvhradend and web interface is enough to make recordings. But if we are talking about watching live tv, slow zapping and hanging on zapping is very confusing, really.

And yes zapping is broken for xbmc > 11 I can create movie to show how does it work for me if you dont believe me. With recent tvheadend as backend and recent xbmc nightly, both on linux. I remember some api changes (faster epg load from tvheeadend) and it seems after this api change channel switching is much slower than before

[majorsl]

I will do limited channel surfing, so the slow changes are only peripherally annoying to me. Once I settle on a channel with a string of shows I'll watch or for background noise, I've had it stream to an XBMC client for 8+ hours without hiccup.

By far, our biggest use is as a PVR. We had NextPVR in the livingroom before I expanded to XBMC to other locations, and the scheduling for NextPVR was top notch.

Personally, I'd like more robust scheduling options from the plugins. At least scheduling re-occurring recordings short term.

[bry]

I will do limited channel surfing, so the slow changes are only peripherally annoying to me. Once I settle on a channel with a string of shows I'll watch or for background noise, I've had it stream to an XBMC client for 8+ hours without hiccup.

By far, our biggest use is as a PVR. We had NextPVR in the livingroom before I expanded to XBMC to other locations, and the scheduling for NextPVR was top notch.

Personally, I'd like more robust scheduling options from the plugins. At least scheduling re-occurring recordings short term.

Have you tried http://forums.gbpvr.com/showthread.php?t=52756
[X-NEWA] Read me first