the end is in sight
#46
(2013-10-02, 05:27)tjcinnamon Wrote:
(2013-10-02, 02:21)Tomkun Wrote: I'm really onboard with Retroplayer, but delay Gotham? No way. Think about it... If every release was delayed to add a new feature we'd still be on version 1.0.
I tend to agree except I feel that this is not just any feature. This is a game changing feature (pun intended). I sincerely believe this is one of the most inventive features available in XBMC.
I agree that having both a full Game Manager GUI, Games Library with metadata and Game Launcher in XBMC with RetroPlayer will be a huge game-changer for XBMC as a complete entertainment system.

I however believe that these new features really need more development work on them, just in order to get to the a much higher user-friendly level we come to expect from other features and XBMC as a whole.

I think that when seeing this for the first time in a stable cross-platform release of XBMC a user would want the ability to download games (ROMs) directly from without XBMC's addon manager


For all popular games and platforms should all be just as easy using iPhone App Store or Google Play Apps Store on Android tables and smart phones.

Zero-configuration should be needed by a user for such games (ROMs), so that a new user can just connect their gamepad, download a game which gets added to the games library and start playing it.

When this is working like that then one should be able to replace your old Nintendo Wii or first-generation Xbox in the living-room with XBMC running on a HTPC or other media player device.
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#47
(2013-10-02, 17:42)Hedda Wrote: I think that when seeing this for the first time in a stable cross-platform release of XBMC a user would want the ability to download games (ROMs) directly from without XBMC's addon manager


For all popular games and platforms should all be just as easy using iPhone App Store or Google Play Apps Store on Android tables and smart phones.

Sounds like a good way to cause a lot of legal trouble for XBMC. Plus, users don't/shouldn't expect XBMC to provide downloads of other content (movies, music, TV shows), just the means to play it.
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#48
for the messages of this forum is that even Retroplayer is too immature to go in December (assuming gotham comes out on december) and delay gotham ... How many months?

But, with the monthly cicles, the january, february... alphas will contain a retroplayer more mature and probably playable without wait for xbmc 14.
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#49
(2013-10-02, 17:42)Hedda Wrote: I think that when seeing this for the first time in a stable cross-platform release of XBMC a user would want the ability to download games (ROMs) directly from without XBMC's addon manager

For all popular games and platforms should all be just as easy using iPhone App Store or Google Play Apps Store on Android tables and smart phones.

Zero-configuration should be needed by a user for such games (ROMs), so that a new user can just connect their gamepad, download a game which gets added to the games library and start playing it.

When this is working like that then one should be able to replace your old Nintendo Wii or first-generation Xbox in the living-room with XBMC running on a HTPC or other media player device.
That's not how XBMC is supposed to work. It's supposed to provide you with a graphical front-end for your Movies/TV Shows/Music/Whatever library, not to provide you with ways to get this content. And I don't think anyone expects XBMC to do such a thing
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#50
(2013-10-02, 20:02)_matt_ Wrote:
(2013-10-02, 17:42)Hedda Wrote: I think that when seeing this for the first time in a stable cross-platform release of XBMC a user would want the ability to download games (ROMs) directly from without XBMC's addon manager


For all popular games and platforms should all be just as easy using iPhone App Store or Google Play Apps Store on Android tables and smart phones.

Sounds like a good way to cause a lot of legal trouble for XBMC. Plus, users don't/shouldn't expect XBMC to provide downloads of other content (movies, music, TV shows), just the means to play it.

I agree wholeheartedly. One must own the game in order to own the ROM. XBMC would get in huge trouble for that. I could see XBMCHub taking that on BUT XBMCHub is NOT XMBC at all. They are in no ways affiliated.
Frodo Win 8 Pro x64
Fractal Design Node 605 (looks amazing)
i5 3570K, Asus P8Z77V LK
2x80GB Intel 320 SSD, 4TB NAS
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Onkyo RC360 with Paradigm piece-by-piece 5.1 build
Nyxboard and AHK full controlled via XBox Controller
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#51
(2013-10-02, 17:42)Hedda Wrote: I think that when seeing this for the first time in a stable cross-platform release of XBMC a user would want the ability to download games (ROMs) directly from without XBMC's addon manager

The functionality you speak of already has a name: game plugins. These will show ROMs from the sites listed in the public domain roms thread, and play them directly over http (like streaming a video).

XBMC is headquartered in the US, and in 2002 protections relating to ROMs were exempted from the DMCA. Until the exemption expires (or this deeply flawed law is struck down) ROMs are legal to own and play in the US.
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#52
(2013-10-02, 00:03)garbear Wrote: no. we'll talk about it at devcon. retroplayer probably won't make the Gotham featurefreeze

Whaaa!!! Angry
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#53
That would be a real shame Sad I'd rather Gotham were delayed, waiting another year for this feature is devastating.

I think if this went to a public vote, the majority would wait (up to a few months) for this to be integrated. If it could be included into Gotham by feb/march I'd buy into that by the bucket load!

Also, is there a status of current emulation, I'd really love to play "sega rally championship" can this be emulated in the current state or is this a long way off.

For me, to be able to play SF2 CE, Sega Rally Championship, Shinobi, Mortal Kombat etc would change the way I use my entire home media setup dramatically.

Any way, here's hoping it makes feature freeze, I for one think it would be an awful discredit if it as not part of Gotham final.
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#54
(2013-10-12, 11:47)PatrickBateman Wrote: That would be a real shame Sad I'd rather Gotham were delayed, waiting another year for this feature is devastating.

I think if this went to a public vote, the majority would wait (up to a few months) for this to be integrated. If it could be included into Gotham by feb/march I'd buy into that by the bucket load!

Also, is there a status of current emulation, I'd really love to play "sega rally championship" can this be emulated in the current state or is this a long way off.

For me, to be able to play SF2 CE, Sega Rally Championship, Shinobi, Mortal Kombat etc would change the way I use my entire home media setup dramatically.

Any way, here's hoping it makes feature freeze, I for one think it would be an awful discredit if it as not part of Gotham final.

Best way to vote is to start coding:
xbmc.org Wrote:This year, we’re going to have a race for version 14. Whichever of the following three features is finished first will be the one to signal feature freeze for 14 and will be the main feature for 14.Retroplayer/ Game LibraryUPnP Multi-ClientBump ffmpeg 2.x.y (bluray mvc support)

And BTW, its possible to already play the games you mentioned via xbmc, albeit not as streamlined or integrated as retro player, but still possible - no need to discredit Gotham.
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#55
(2013-10-12, 20:37)teeedubb Wrote:
(2013-10-12, 11:47)PatrickBateman Wrote: That would be a real shame Sad I'd rather Gotham were delayed, waiting another year for this feature is devastating.

I think if this went to a public vote, the majority would wait (up to a few months) for this to be integrated. If it could be included into Gotham by feb/march I'd buy into that by the bucket load!

Also, is there a status of current emulation, I'd really love to play "sega rally championship" can this be emulated in the current state or is this a long way off.

For me, to be able to play SF2 CE, Sega Rally Championship, Shinobi, Mortal Kombat etc would change the way I use my entire home media setup dramatically.

Any way, here's hoping it makes feature freeze, I for one think it would be an awful discredit if it as not part of Gotham final.

Best way to vote is to start coding:
xbmc.org Wrote:This year, we’re going to have a race for version 14. Whichever of the following three features is finished first will be the one to signal feature freeze for 14 and will be the main feature for 14.Retroplayer/ Game LibraryUPnP Multi-ClientBump ffmpeg 2.x.y (bluray mvc support)

And BTW, its possible to already play the games you mentioned via xbmc, albeit not as streamlined or integrated as retro player, but still possible - no need to discredit Gotham.

Yea, but I don't want all the faffing of using external players as its not entirely plausible for this to function effecivly on my RL70. I would have to run in windowed mode (not true full screen) and seriously hinder performance of my setup. Coupled with some of the issues encountered of using external emulators with advanced launcher (audio not releasing) and issues with config on low powered devices + time invested (for something that's soon to be redundant when libretro is merged) your option seems like a bad ROI in my opinion.

Also, I find the best way to "vote" is in a poll or similar.

Asking an accountant to write me a video application for example, again, would be a bad managerial decision.
Not everyone can code effectively, some are artistic, some are physical, we are not all the same, interested or indeed able to code. Throwing this statement around loosely is almost an insult to devs and users who show an interest in anything and does come bundled with a dash of ignorance.

If I said this to my users/customers (lawyers) when they ask me if a project would be complete on time, I don't suspect I'd be in that role for long. I have my career/interests, you have yours. I contribute in other ways, which is more than enough (in my opinion) and I have no time and no desire to learn how to code, I'll let the codies do that, While I contribute in other ways (which are also useful/needed and appreciated) Smile

But thank you for the interesting, yet somewhat unnecessarily passive aggressive post Wink
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#56
(2013-10-15, 21:27)PatrickBateman Wrote:
(2013-10-12, 20:37)teeedubb Wrote:
(2013-10-12, 11:47)PatrickBateman Wrote: That would be a real shame Sad I'd rather Gotham were delayed, waiting another year for this feature is devastating.

I think if this went to a public vote, the majority would wait (up to a few months) for this to be integrated. If it could be included into Gotham by feb/march I'd buy into that by the bucket load!

Also, is there a status of current emulation, I'd really love to play "sega rally championship" can this be emulated in the current state or is this a long way off.

For me, to be able to play SF2 CE, Sega Rally Championship, Shinobi, Mortal Kombat etc would change the way I use my entire home media setup dramatically.

Any way, here's hoping it makes feature freeze, I for one think it would be an awful discredit if it as not part of Gotham final.

Best way to vote is to start coding:
xbmc.org Wrote:This year, we’re going to have a race for version 14. Whichever of the following three features is finished first will be the one to signal feature freeze for 14 and will be the main feature for 14.Retroplayer/ Game LibraryUPnP Multi-ClientBump ffmpeg 2.x.y (bluray mvc support)

And BTW, its possible to already play the games you mentioned via xbmc, albeit not as streamlined or integrated as retro player, but still possible - no need to discredit Gotham.

Yea, but I don't want all the faffing of using external players as its not entirely plausible for this to function effecivly on my RL70. I would have to run in windowed mode (not true full screen) and seriously hinder performance of my setup. Coupled with some of the issues encountered of using external emulators with advanced launcher (audio not releasing) and issues with config on low powered devices + time invested (for something that's soon to be redundant when libretro is merged) your option seems like the worlds worst ROI in my opinion.

You're doing it wrong. Use RCB in solo mode or have ALA quit xbmc then restart xbmc. I use the a lot of the emulators that are contained in libretro, so when its merged I have my configs and artwork already setup. Poor ROI or being prepared for the future?

Quote:Also, I find the best way to "vote" is in a poll or similar.
Asking an accountant to write me a video application, again, would be a bad managerial decision.
Not everyone can code effectively, some are artistic, some are physical, we are not all the same, interested or indeed able to code. Throwing this around loosely is almost an insult to devs and users who show an interest in anything.

Vote in as many polls as you want but remember this isn't a democracy, you're vote means squat and making demands or empty threats isn't going to help, only hinder. Be thankful that the people who do the work are kind enough to share it at zero cost to you.

Quote:If I said this to my users/customers (lawyers) when they ask me if a project would be complete on time, I don't suspect I'd be in that role for long. I have my career/interests, you have yours. I contribute in other ways, which is more than enough (in my opinion) ad I have no time, no desire to learn to code, I'll let the codes do that, While I contribute in other ways (which are also useful/needed and appreciated) Smile

You forget one very important fact - this isn't a business where you're the boss and the devs are paid for their work, its open source software where the people do this work in their spare time. Do you work for free for your customers? I doubt it. But as you see this as a business, do the business thing and pay someone to code it for you. I'm sure garbear and others would love to get paid for their hard work.
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#57
(2013-10-15, 21:27)PatrickBateman Wrote: But thank you for the interesting, yet somewhat unnecessarily passive aggressive post Wink

Just think of it as a free 'reality check' Wink
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#58
(2013-10-02, 00:03)garbear Wrote: no. we'll talk about it at devcon. retroplayer probably won't make the Gotham featurefreeze

dang, what about as a 13.1 release? This is the only feature I'm excited for in Gotham
hd audio was it for me in 12
it would be a huge shame to have to wait an additional year once gotham lands Sad
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#59
(2013-10-15, 23:35)macrho Wrote: it would be a huge shame to have to wait an additional year once gotham lands Sad
i don't know that it will be a year but who know how long it will take to be ready enough to be added.
it still needs numerous other features/dependencies to be added so that it works like the other libraries do so it may take a year all we can do is be patient, wait and watch progress and help if were able.
look at it this way you wouldn't take a cake out of the oven before it was done because you couldn't wait to eat it so i personally think they should take how ever long it takes to get it right before they add it in rather than have some hacky version of what it should be and how they want it to work because ppl were impatient and prodded them into adding it before it was ready to be added.
im amazed by how far its come thus far in a relatively short amount of time.
if i can help with my nearly non-existent coding skills or in any other way feel free to ask.
i am not bad with photoshop, i have a very limited understanding of xml and a lot of free time if there is some way it could be put to good use let me know.
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#60
I know it is not the same but I am quite sure that there will be a RetroPlayer branch that is based on stable gotham release branch (at least this was the case for Frodo). So when you grab this branch and build it (and someone may also provide a windows build) you will have exactly what you want: a stable gotham release with RetroPlayer included. No need to delay Gotham or include something in the main line that is not ready yet.

@garbear (or anybody else who might be able to do this): Just throwing out an idea without knowing how much work this would be: Would it be possible to have a RetroPlayer dev-branch that keeps based on stable Gotham releases? This would allow future testers to test out new RetroPlayer features or fixed bugs without having side effects with other XBMC developments. With Frodo we had one build that was based on stable release code but RetroPlayer was not stable enough to run on my "productive" environment. When I wanted to test out newer and maybe more stable releases of RetroPlayer I could only test them together with wip XBMC alpha code. So also if RetroPlayer got more reliable I could not "use" these builds because XBMC itself was not stable enough. Testing RetroPlayer was explicitly sitting down at my dev PC grabbing the latest dev branch and playing a bit. This would be another story if I could just grab my gamepad in the living room and play some games just when I am in the mood to do it. So I guess you might get more and better test results if people would be able to run newest RetroPlayer code in combination with stable XBMC builds.

As I said I don't know how much work this would be. I might also sit down and improve my github skills so maybe this is something I could provide myself. But I already tried this back in Frodo times and ended up with tons of build errors that I just solved by chosing "take left", "take right" by guessing what part of code looked better to me. So I don't think this might be the best approachSmile.
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