[jmarshall]

SmallStepBack vs StepBack is different (one is 30 seconds, one is 7 seconds).

But yes, IMO the advantage of having it there by default are outweighed quite a bit by the disadvantage.

[hhzz]

An update.

Upgraded my OpenElec box to 13.1 and have to say that things are still very weird. Tried all of the available themes, incl. the new ones that weren't packaged with OE when this thread started.

Still, none of them really feel comfortable when using a remote control, only (no mouse, no keyboard, no touch).

The biggest annoyance to me is that in all themes, when using a remote control it's never clear how to enter a submenu level or how to leave to get the parent level. In every menu, it's different.

There is no rule. Sometimes you enter a submenu by pressing "OK", sometimes with an arrow button. Sometimes you leave to the parent level by pressing "back", sometimes an arrow button. For examples, see first posts in this thread. Examples from Confluence: Entering a submenu level from the Main menu is different than entering a submenu level in the Settings submenu is different than entering a submenu level in an Addon configuration menu. This is madness.

IMHO, most themes are far too small in a 10ft ui situation. When watching TV, I'm sitting in a living room quite far away from the screen, yet most themes are using small fonts and there is no setting to increase their size ("zoom" doesn't help here, I only want to increase the font size and reduce the number of list items accordingly).

Allow me to point to a previous post which suggested three humble rules for a good 10ft ui.

Disclaimer: This wasn't meant as a flame. My box used to run Linux vdr, I switched to XBMC to enjoy its superiour media playback. vdr's user interface is simple, all menus behave exactly the same. So simple that you never ever get lost in its menu structure.

[Ned Scott]

I know XBMC can be improved, and in some areas it flat out needs improvement (like our web remote UI in the past, but thankfully that's now being replaced with a better web remote add-on), but even my family can use XBMC with a remote, and that's with a simple white Apple TV remote that only has a few buttons. Even with the occasional inconsistency, I think XBMC is very remote friendly, even for people who've never used XBMC before (keep in mind that setup is different issue to daily use).

Why do all "submenus" have to behave the same way? Not all of them are even really "menu/submenus" in their use, like on the home screen where those are just groupings of buttons. "Movies" takes you directly to the "Title" node, while the other buttons take you to "actors" or "years". In settings things aren't really "submenus" as much as they are "tabs" for each area. If you see an option on the screen in XBMC then that means you can directly navigate to that button, rather than selecting a parent button to get to that "sub" button. That's not confusing. If it's on the screen then it's selectable.

Some skins show or hide a submenu on the home screen with arrows, but most of those skins can be configured to either "slide" the menu in or out, or have it always exposed, or just not use those menus at all. I don't, and I'm very much a "power user" of XBMC. Instead, I configure my main home screen buttons using the Amber skin, only adding the direction options I want, like "Movies, Anime, TV shows" etc. I know other options are possible, but if I want simple usage then XBMC can be configured that way.

I completely agree with you on the font part. Confluence in XBMC v13 got a font size boost, and it made a big difference. In most cases it seems to be big enough for most people, but I would like to see a "BIG" font option in more skins, or even have that be the style of a given skin.

[negge]

I think the font size ia perfect, and I don't have good eye sight. If you can't see the text you either need a bigger screen or you'll need to sit closer to the TV (I don't get why some people place their 32" TV 5 meters away from the sofa). I also use XBMC with just a remote and I have no problems with it.

[hhzz]

Here's another oddity. In Confluence, there are three different sets of on-screen playback button panels, each in a different place and shown in a different context.

[jjd-uk]

So? it allows quick access to player controls in different parts of the GUI if the user doesn't have a remote as their control device.

[hhzz]

So?

It's an example for the lack of consistency in the UI design.

it allows quick access to player controls in different parts of the GUI if the user doesn't have a remote as their control device.

Then the player controls should be visible in a fixed part of the UI, not just pop up at some odd locations in unexpected ways. In the third image above, there are even two sets of player control button visible to the user on the same screen - why? And you don't find that weird?

The XBMC UI, at least to me, looks like was made by several very talented people who all implemented their own usability quirks in their part of the UI but never really discussed a common guideline beforehand or afterwards.

Yes, it looks great. Yes, it works. But "we know it's a bit odd, but you'll get used to it" isn't the finest metric for good usability.

[jjd-uk]

Ok I can sort of see what you're getting at, the complication is that Confluence as the default skin tries to support various input methods so the design is compromised as it's not optimised for one particular input type. What you suggest makes sense in having a fixed area for playback controls for the touch, mouse & gamepad users, however that's then on screen real estate in constant use that has no relevance to remote control users.

[negge]

How do you get that last dialog? I've never seen that one. Regarding the others, I don't really see how it could be improved (you didn't suggest improvements either). If the controls on top of the menu wouldn't be there, a user without a play/stop button would have to navigate back to fullscreen in order to stop the video.

[Ned Scott]

How do you get that last dialog? I've never seen that one. Regarding the others, I don't really see how it could be improved (you didn't suggest improvements either). If the controls on top of the menu wouldn't be there, a user without a play/stop button would have to navigate back to fullscreen in order to stop the video.

Press "m" while video or music is playing, but not in fullscreen mode. I didn't notice it for a long time as well, but it's very handy. Plus, it's an easy way to get access to those repeat and shuffle buttons, which don't show up on the normal OSD (which I hope we change when we revamp/change the default skin).