Do all addons use the folder/subfolder UI.
#1
Just looking at playing around with addons. Also have have exposure to Netflix, other settop boxes.

Most addons I have seen used the folder UI look. This is bad for users who are 'browsers' if the folders get more than 3 or so deep.

Are there other ways to do the UI that are more Netflix-ey? Are there any examples to look at?

I'd like to contribute and I see that the User eXperience is somewhere that I might do so but if the XBMC way of doing things gets in the way then I'll look at other ways to contribute.

Thanks,

Tom
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#2
You can do things as deep or shallow as you like - it's entirely up to the add-on. I'm sure if you come up with a nicer way to do it the add-on author would be receptive. i.e. mock up what you're thinking of and the add-on author can tell you whether it's doable or not.
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#3
Thanks for the reply but I was looking at it more from a technical point of view.

From what I can figure out anything more complicated than folders seem to require a script as opposed to the typical addon. If you've seen the netflix interface, you've seen that it's much different than any xbmc addon that I've seen but perhaps there's something else out there. I'd like to use the entire screen (such as like poster wrap does for my local movies) but most addons don't do such a thing and bank on the skin defaults to do the pretty stuff for them and just concentrate on doing the underlying code instead.

Since there doesn't seem to be any docs that I've found which describes what the differences are (addon vs. script). I'd like to do some proof of concept/ experimental coding prior to contacting the author so as not to waste his time.

Anyway, I'll dig some more and see what I can learn.
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#4
Add-ons are objects that are not part of XBMC Core code. The types of add-on are Skins, Scripts, Plug-in and Repository( see Here )

Plug-ins are probably the most common add-on, these being all the Video and Audio. These do rely on the skins to provide the layout to some point. These 'integrate' into XBMC's file system.

Scripts come in many flavours, some are just modules that other add-ons can use, some are service add-ons(they tend to run in the background doing things for skins and other add-ons). Then there are the Program type scripts. These can have a customized GUI within the constraints of XBMC's Skinning Engine(with a few limitations) or not. Here the add-on developer can create their own user experience(though being one of these developers, function often out weights creativeness) Also, if an add-on uses the GUI method, Skin Developers can create a GUI that matches their skin, keeping the flow of the skin the same.

The WiKI offers a lot of information regarding this.. -> http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Add-ons
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#5
Ok thanks. Looks like I have more reading to do (and perhaps dissecting of skins, scripts and plug-ins).

A customized GUI is what I'm looking for but for a Video add-on (or whatever it should be called, maybe custom GUI add-on?). One of the problems I have with trying to get more non-technical users to try XBMC is that the level of customization available is too high for them to wrap their heads around. Also (as I said above) the subfolder upon subfolder display UI is frustrating to them (and me actually).

I think a unified, easy to use interface that is persistent across any skin is something people would like and I want to play with that idea.

If there are any examples of add ons, scripts, plugins that do things in a pleasing visual manner, I'd love to see them. (I can't be the only one who wants to do this)

I'm presently downloading skins so that I can see what goes on in them programmatically and to get visual ideas.

Thanks again.
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#6
Is it really a customised GUI you're after, or is it just a listing similar to your movies list? That's just a simple list afterall - each item simply looks pretty.

Show a picture of what you want it to look like and it will clarify things for others.
Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.


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#7
oops.. forgot to post this earlier...

@tomboalogo

I'm not sure of any video add-ons that use a GUI interface.. There used to be a version of Apple Movie Trailers that had it's own GUI that some skin developers made their own skin window for. Transparency! skin has support of a few script gui.

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The difficulty of having a unified look across all skins is that the Font used is not one that the Script has, it uses ones provided by the skin.
These next images are from one of my scripts from a few years ago(script is still actively developed - just couldn't find any recent pictures showing the issue)
using Confluence Skin
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using Night Skin
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A work around was developed a long while ago(I think it was called, MyFont script) where it would copy the script's font to the skin's font library. The script voids the rules of developing add-ons for XBMC, as it changes other add-ons(skins) Another work around is to have the skin developers have your font included in the skin. The Idea of having a set of fonts that all skins must have included(same fonts and sizes) has been tossed around, which would allow us Script developers to have uniformity across skins, though I don't currently know the status of this. There was some development(though seems stalled) that allowed Script GUI's to have their own 'Font.xml' which would allow use of their own fonts.
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#8
@jmarshall - is the best example I can think of. The movies list (in XBMC) is simple because the directory structure is only one level deep. TV shows maybe 2 deep. Easy to browse.

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I've been using the Hulu addon and the problem is that to get anywhere you have to drill down more than 2 levels. This is very frustrating to someone who wants to browse. Also it doesn't use screen real estate very well (perhaps there are other skins that do).

Note that I'm not picking on Hulu addon, most addons act the same when they have lots of content to browse thru.

As in the above image, rows are the equivalent of folders and entries in those rows are the media to watch (duh).

This matrix style layout seems to use screen real estate better for a 'browser' (person who is browsing). Easy to add another row and the entries in the rows can be as long or as short as needed. Although, limiting its length would likely make browsing less of a chore. What I'm trying to eliminate is the constant drilling down then back up.

The only reason I asked this is that friends complained (specifically about Hulu, others are similar) and I asked myself "yeah, why is it like that?". Now if that's just the way addons for video are set up then that's fine. Like I said was looking for a way to contribute and figured if it was bugging me then it might be bugging someone else.

Thanks again for the answers.
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#9
I think the biggest reason is most of us code jockeys aren't ui designers. If you want me designing a ui, you're going to end up with crayons and stick figures lol

There used to be a fork of the trakt.tv addon that used a custom gui, but I can't find it atm. Maybe someone else remembers what I'm talking about?
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#10
problem with each addon doing it's own GUI is that you won't get uniformity.
best way is to improve core plugin handling to improve this
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#11
@ Bstrdsmkr - Hey I'm no UI designer either (embedded C in automotive but have done some UI work) but I recognize crappy UI when I experience it. At least after the 12th or 13th time Wink But I get what you're saying.

That's why I started by reading all the python code in the Hulu add-on and trying to understand how things got on the screen and where the info to populate that stuff came from.

@ Martijn - I understand about uniformity but you can take uniformity too far and it becomes mediocrity. Not sure why uniformity is that much of a goal (but I guess you gotta start somewhere).

How do you distinguish from good plugin developers and great ones if they are all limited by the same UI?

I thought a goal of XBMC was to optimize the 10 foot interface (or something like that). One issue I seem to see in the forums is that a user changes skins and then the add-on breaks. That should never happen to a user - if the UI is encapsulated within the add-on (within reason) that shouldn't occur (IMHO).

Don't mean to throw rocks, that isn't my intent. I just get wondering what to say to friends when they say ' why do you have to do all that to watch something on Hulu?' And start to wonder if there isn't a better way that would give XBMC more 'wow factor'.

Thanks for the input
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#12
well i mean it's quite ugly (in my view) that if you use a white skin for example and an addon opens up a black UI.
then the skinner needs to adapt those files again to match his skin
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#13
changing skins shouldn't break anything. Some skins are out of date or don't go the extra mile to support certain things

Another reason a lot of folks use the list system is because it's easy. Set properties on a list of items, and hand them off to xbmc where the skin has total control over how they look. It's sort of all or nothing atm. If you don't want to use the default system, you have to build EVERYTHING about the UI.

I think the point of uniformity is so that users don't have to learn to navigate each addon individually; selecting an item in the xbmc library works the same as selecting an item in the youtube addon.

There is one really old, really popular addon that isn't supported here that implements a custom UI and navigation is a train wreck because of it.

There are definitely improvements to be made, but the hard part seems to be nailing down what EXACTLY needs to be improved. Hopefully you can glean some useful insight
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#14
Thanks again for the input - you've given me things to think about.
@ Martijn - yes that could end up quite horrid but if the custom add-on UI takes the entire screen instead of wasting so much of it as it does now??

@ Bstrdsmkr - yes uniformity helps in your case IF the folder structure that you are traversing is as shallow as Movies (1 or 2 levels), TV Shows (2 or 3 levels). I have a boss who thinks he's organizing the info for our work on the network. At last count, he had info 12-15 subdirectories deep and he can't understand why people get frustrated.

One question that came to mind - for add ons there are different views (list, thumbnail, Media info 1, media info 2, etc.). Where do those 'live'? The add-on developer creates his/her add-on, chooses to support some or all of the above, then what? Is the appearance totally controlled by the skin? Is it the skin + some basic conventions enforced by XBMC? Can the skin declare "when this skin does a list it'll be on the right instead of the left like everyone else"?

Maybe my time would be better spent learning/experimenting with a new 'view', call it matrix or something? Then it could be used by more than a single add-on and maybe not smash too many XBMC uniformity rules?

Just a thought, thanks.
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#15
The views live within the skin. Addons can set a view for their folder, but then need to know the number the skin uses to refer to the desired view. Media Info 1 and etc are just common views that MOST skins support, and yes they are totally controlled by the skin
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Do all addons use the folder/subfolder UI.0