[Prof Yaffle]

I've assumed that the shift to binary add-ons would at least open the door to folks like Netflix providing a DRM-enabled client if they so wished - just as you get similar applications on modern smart TVs. The challenge is whether we, as a community, can generate enough leverage (demand) on the providers to create official applications, whether that's Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, BBC iPlayer, 4OD or anything else. But the possibility is there, at least, unless I've got completely befuddled. It's clearly possible, though, without any Silverlight dependency or something equally platform-specific... many (most?) modern TVs run Linux, after all.

(Remembers at this point that Amazon refuses to port its LoveFilm app to anything other than its own Android devices in the UK, despite it being available on many TVs as well... so who knows how corporate decision making happens sometimes).

It is certainly true, though, that there's been a steadily-increasing tidal wave of posts along the lines of "I bought a £30 box from an honest-looking bloke in an alleyway; it's completely replaced my £500-a-year package and it's brilliant, except I have no clue why my house is now over-run with shady looking characters who keep searching through my bank statements, why my son has developed an interest in mirrors and rolled-up dollar bills or why my kitten has exploded. My technical knowledge stretches to pushing the on switch - can you help?".

[mayoman]

http://www.kongregate.com/games/balloona...ng-kittens


Seriously though, like many people here I have an ambiguous attitude to piracy. I believe that anyone who creates or provides content has a legitimate right to be rewarded for the effort/cost of doing so, but I have no qualms about pirated content where I believe that right is being abused.
Unfortunately, given half a chance, most will charge as much as they can get you to bear for content, or force you to consume the content through a shoddy, restrictive box/format.
Piracy has a role to play in preventing that from happening (remember - in order to play music we would all still be forced to buy CDs at inflated prices were it not for piracy), and I wonder is our problem more that people are replacing their crappy legal box with an even crappier pirate one that just happens to have XBMC on the front?

This will get worse until the TV and movie industry finally realise (like the music industry), that the old model is dead & get with the likes of Netflix. I would love to see XBMC as part of the solution though I do realise it will take binary addons or some sort of integrated DRM protocol for that to happen. In the meantime I think we just need to hold the line as best we can that XBMC.org does not promote piracy nor act as an end user policeman. By analogy - most computer crime is carried out using Windows OS, but that's not Microsoft's fault.

[karandras24]

You may have noticed that I have been pretty short with people on the android help forum who have been moaning about not getting their dodgy add-on to work on their pre-installed xbmc ebay boxes.

Unfortunately it goes with the mentality of most low end android users, they want something free and that's all they are interested in.

It has most definitely damaged xbmc's reputation, as people who know i have xbmc have started asking me for the best box to buy and how they can get all the films for free.

I just tell them i have no idea what they are talking about and that xbmc doesn't provide content and you need to own everything you put on it.

[Ned Scott]

I'm curious, so all of you have legitimately purchased all of your media and just made images of them and put them in your libraries?

Is everything in my library "legitimate"? Oh heck no. However, saying XBMC is for "free movies" is like saying my TV is for "free movies". XBMC is just a neutral part in the chain.

The (quite large) libraries I put together for my parents, my sister's family, etc, are all legitimate copies of their personal movie libraries. Most of my own library is legitimate. Mainly what I've downloaded is anime, and that's slowly turning more and more legitimate (hello Chrunchyroll membership and XBMC add-on). My best friend and I used to live together and we'd download the crap out of TV shows, but now he's got himself a legitimate Hulu Plus membership for his family. We're willing to pay a fair price for entertainment.

Another example, I've own a few copies of Star Wars over the years on different media, but I downloaded the fan-made HD "de-specialized" version. Availability is a big factor.

I don't blame people who want to screw the entertainment industry a little, considering how bloated some of the profits are and how absurd it is to access some things (*cough*Game of Thrones*cough*). More power to ya. (although, if you're going to pirate, you might as well get a good copy of the video. The average quality on some of these add-ons is horrific.)

I think a lot of those people would even understand that XBMC is just a player of content and not the source, but the way XBMC is presented to these users is very misleading. It's annoying as heck when they come here on the forum, but I have to remind myself that they really don't know any better. I guess it's a testament to the versatility of XBMC, but it is troubling to see this assumption that XBMC is nothing more than a tool for people who don't want to pay for anything.

[PatK]

This could be a huge rant, a vehicle to drive Piracy opinions & on.

Leave us to say if people have found the XBMC forums looking for help regardless, I think of this as an opportunity to swell our ranks. Treat them courteously without contempt, pure Innocents that need some moral religion or is it that something isn't working in the world? I dislike the word 'Piracy' very much, it brings visions of lawless abandon and I like to follow rules of the many, I'm not a criminal for watching a movie.

Most of my 23 local stations broadcasting through the air do so without my permission invading my air space and could very well have health implications, so in effect I have branded these unauthorized excursions into my space as public domain. I believe it's fair use to hold these transgressions in digital form until I can mount a defensive posture. In the mean, XBMC is a great organizer (let's call it a file cabinet) of some of the most egregious violations of my person.

I believe there are arguments and a case to be made for rental shops, video on demand services and all the add-ons that take a free web video stream commonly available from a browser and replace that browser with XBMC. Clearly the copy-write pendulum in the U.S. has swung in the opposite direction, and we have to be watchful for the jackbooted empowered righteous right, sorry Americans for your loss of freedoms, but it was yours to lose.

XBMC is just media player software, with a library, the forum should not be in the bedrooms of the users.

[Mudislander]

Most of my 23 local stations broadcasting through the air do so without my permission invading my air space and could very well have health implications, so in effect I have branded these unauthorized excursions into my space as public domain. I believe it's fair use to hold these transgressions in digital form until I can mount a defensive posture. In the mean, XBMC is a great organizer (let's call it a file cabinet) of some of the most egregious violations of my person.

[canadave]

You may have noticed that I have been pretty short with people on the android help forum who have been moaning about not getting their dodgy add-on to work on their pre-installed xbmc ebay boxes.

Why not just not respond at all?

I really don't understand the issue. If you're upset with people who you've judged to have pirated things, and that offends you, then just go do something else if they ask for help. Seems simple enough.

[Piers]

Most of my 23 local stations broadcasting through the air do so without my permission invading my air space and could very well have health implications, so in effect I have branded these unauthorized excursions into my space as public domain. I believe it's fair use to hold these transgressions in digital form until I can mount a defensive posture. In the mean, XBMC is a great organizer (let's call it a file cabinet) of some of the most egregious violations of my person.

Coffee was spat, laughter was made out loud.

---

On a different note I do understand the opening posters' point. But there will always be idiots, I've said before I could buy 1000 Android sticks, load up XBMC with all the piracy add-ons, get packaging made for around £0.30p per box and then sell it for over £100. Naming it would be the hard part, the CockBlock, FotzeFun (google the first word), XBMCElitePiracyBasedAndroidBoxForMorons? Either way, it's seen as a quick way to make money from gullible idiots.

There is a non-mentionable website that really takes the biscuit and spits all over it when it comes to the XBMC name, I'm not going to mention it but it's a blight on the Internet.

[Karnagious]

If it wasn't for piracy, XBMC wouldn't be what it is today.

Consider XBMC4XBOX, or as it was known at the time, XBMC. You had to mod your XBOX to use it. Why would anyone mod their XBOX? Well, if we are honest with ourselves, we all know why.

Even after that, when XBMC divorced the XBOX and the attached DVD drive along with it, the main benefit of it over your existing DVD player was to play hard-drive stored digital media. Why would most people have digital media at that time? Because it could be easily transferred. Why was that important? Well, if we are honest with ourselves, we all know why.

This has changed relatively recently; having digital copies is much more legitimate, the experience with the MC part of XBMC is so much better, the hardware requirements are fulfilled with pocket change.

The annoying, crap-box, XBMC-bundle users are more than likely the true philosophical descendants of the XBMC grey beards. Some will transcend their current status as low-trouser-wearing, elder-disrespecting, stupid-music-listening, drains on your patience and time to become worthwhile contributors to the project.

The best that can be done with the rest is to make it clear that this is not the forum to discuss specific topics. And provide them the firm discipline and structured environment they have obviously lacked in their home life. I don't know... kids these days, right!?!

For the record, I support the XBMC stand on piracy, which is essentially a non-aggression pact with both sides. Banning piracy talk on the forum is vital for the survival of the project, and the complaints from self-entitled egotists that whine about it should be ignored.

[dgcruzing]

An endless debate that will go on for as long as XBMC is the front end..

We all agree that the addons in question should be discussed in the right forums.. Thus it is going to be an never ending case of reminders and education to the new that they are not to discuss them here..

While this is annoying for the mods...but a necessary evil..

Positively speaking about legitimate addons I am now able to travel around China (for work)and plug in my portable xbmc build and watch English news and other streaming and or movies and streaming music with only a few clicks to get it started. All due to XBMC...so do I love it...sure do...
Then when I get home to my HTPC its the first thing that gets turned on to pump music thru the apartment..

GFs can come and go..but XBMC..I don't think we are ever going to get divorced..haha

[Luke Skytripper]

Without taking a side either way here, because I am far from "clean as a preacher's sheets" when it comes to creatively sourced media, something that might be a good idea is what Saurik did with cydia for IOS. When anyone adds a repository that is known to deal in piracy/pirated apps, there is a one-time notice of the fact that is is known, not supported by cydia and to think about what you are doing. It will do this for each repo you add. You could have XBMC do this as well, and even if the repo is already added the first time a particular add-on is run you can do the same thing. Just an idea.

[un1versal]

This could be a huge rant, a vehicle to drive Piracy opinions & on.

Leave us to say if people have found the XBMC forums looking for help regardless, I think of this as an opportunity to swell our ranks. Treat them courteously without contempt, pure Innocents that need some moral religion or is it that something isn't working in the world? I dislike the word 'Piracy' very much, it brings visions of lawless abandon and I like to follow rules of the many, I'm not a criminal for watching a movie.

Most of my 23 local stations broadcasting through the air do so without my permission invading my air space and could very well have health implications, so in effect I have branded these unauthorized excursions into my space as public domain. I believe it's fair use to hold these transgressions in digital form until I can mount a defensive posture. In the mean, XBMC is a great organizer (let's call it a file cabinet) of some of the most egregious violations of my person.

I believe there are arguments and a case to be made for rental shops, video on demand services and all the add-ons that take a free web video stream commonly available from a browser and replace that browser with XBMC. Clearly the copy-write pendulum in the U.S. has swung in the opposite direction, and we have to be watchful for the jackbooted empowered righteous right, sorry Americans for your loss of freedoms, but it was yours to lose.

XBMC is just media player software, with a library, the forum should not be in the bedrooms of the users.

Some ppl think the funiest things, some even do them (like buying crap with xbmc on ebay etc) Here are some of these ppl.

[nooryani84]

I'm curious, so all of you have legitimately purchased all of your media and just made images of them and put them in your libraries?

Is everything in my library "legitimate"? Oh heck no. However, saying XBMC is for "free movies" is like saying my TV is for "free movies". XBMC is just a neutral part in the chain.

The (quite large) libraries I put together for my parents, my sister's family, etc, are all legitimate copies of their personal movie libraries. Most of my own library is legitimate. Mainly what I've downloaded is anime, and that's slowly turning more and more legitimate (hello Chrunchyroll membership and XBMC add-on). My best friend and I used to live together and we'd download the crap out of TV shows, but now he's got himself a legitimate Hulu Plus membership for his family. We're willing to pay a fair price for entertainment.

Another example, I've own a few copies of Star Wars over the years on different media, but I downloaded the fan-made HD "de-specialized" version. Availability is a big factor.

I don't blame people who want to screw the entertainment industry a little, considering how bloated some of the profits are and how absurd it is to access some things (*cough*Game of Thrones*cough*). More power to ya. (although, if you're going to pirate, you might as well get a good copy of the video. The average quality on some of these add-ons is horrific.)

I think a lot of those people would even understand that XBMC is just a player of content and not the source, but the way XBMC is presented to these users is very misleading. It's annoying as heck when they come here on the forum, but I have to remind myself that they really don't know any better. I guess it's a testament to the versatility of XBMC, but it is troubling to see this assumption that XBMC is nothing more than a tool for people who don't want to pay for anything.

Not to mention that most people buying these cheap Android boxes probably don't have the slightest clue about ripping blurays/DVDs let alone what it means. The movie industry hasn't really given us any good options for digital downloads of movies/TV shows, everything is either DRM-locked or has to be streamed. I seriously doubt this will change - though I do like my Crunchyroll

Sooner or later they'll stop selling media on optical discs and then you'll be forced into DRM. Unless you're like Richard Stallman who doesn't even own a cell phone.

[JesusOnEez]

I'm curious, so all of you have legitimately purchased all of your media and just made images of them and put them in your libraries?

I kind of alluded to this in my prior post, but no. Not everything in my collection is legitimate. I'd say 90% of content is legitimate across the board from the point of view that I own a copy of the media, whether it be CD, DVD or Blu-Ray. I can download rips quicker than physically ripping them for the most part.

Having bought a lot of crap over the years, I also use use it to 'trial' media. Download it, like it, buy it or download it, hate it, delete it. Save's me wasting money. Not legitimate but at least I don't have hoards of legitimately purchased crap.

What I don't use is the likes of SportsDevil, Navi-X and so on. I won't lie, I have tried them. I find them sketchy, unstable, and too much of a pain in the arse to bother with.

[User 146225]

Think people have missed the point of what I was trying to allude to or have gone off in a tangent.

Yes, alot of users digital media is probably not legitimate, but that's the end users responsibility and nothing to do with xbmc.

It's the same of add-ons, its the end user responsibility.

BUT,

what i was alluding to is that for alot of new users, who have gotten xbmc through a pre-packaged with dodgy add-ons box, they are one of the same thing, the add-on and xbmc.

I'm on twitter, i see people talk about and advising other to get xbmc as it gives you free stuff like films and sport.

No one is saying get this add-on for xbmc. That's what the view of xbmc has become.